If you want to have water in the nether, why not just make lava act like water in the nether? (except for the slow flow part; that can stay).
Lava is dangerous to handle if you don't handle it correctly, so it gives some challenge to replicating the same farms from the overworld in the nether.
I agree with having water in the nether just for the fact it gives plenty more options to do in-game (mob farms and such < NOT the only thing though) with as little trouble as changing a bit of code. Silk Touch is hard to get, which makes getting water into the nether a legitimate challenge. The only thing I'm concerned with is the infinite amounts of obsidian right at your portal-step. Maybe lava in the nether should turn into cobblestone - when in contact with water - instead of obsidian. Its still a great idea though, and would be interesting to see in the game =)
Thanks for proving my thought process that Single Player games have no balance and are purely for fun.
I don't mean to get hung up on this point, but again, this is really terrible reasoning... First of all, ALL games are purely for fun. A game's primary purpose is to entertain. Second, those games most certainly do have balance; more so than Minecraft. You cannot do whatever you want whenever you want in them. Single player games often put you in control of a character with superhuman abilities simply because it's more entertaining. It doesn't mean the games are easy or there is no 'balance'. Think back to Mega Man, Metriod, or Gradius. Those games are hard as hell the first time around.
And in regards to your argument about things not having to make sense outside of the minecraft universe, I get that. Some things should be a certain way to maintain good game-play regardless of their feasibility in the real world. Take the Gradius for example. Gravity is mirrored on the ceiling. Does that make sense? No, but otherwise the duckers wouldn't be able to traipse about on the ceiling shooting shiny rocks at you.
This point is moot and neither in favor nor against your stance. In Minecraft, Trees grow without water in the nether just as green penis men blow up your house. Ergo, If you say that it is necessary and worth changing a vital game mechanic to preserve the relationship between trees and water, then we must also remove everything else that doesn't make sense. viz. the aforementioned penis men.
All that being said, I think the idea of having another, unique liquid in the nether is fascinating. Maybe mercury? Or oil? I dunno. I'm not against another liquid, I just think water is out of place in the nether. Aside from the balance issues, water isn't suited for a hell like environment.
The nether is supposed to be more difficulty than the overworld. That is the POINT. It is supposed to be DANGEROUS and UNINHABITABLE. If we could get water, now matter how hard or easy it is to do so, it would remove the risk of burning to death or dieing in lava, which are the biggest dangers in the nether.
I don't give a crap about realism, I care about what makes the game fun, and removing challenge is not fun.
The nether is supposed to be more difficulty than the overworld. That is the POINT. It is supposed to be DANGEROUS and UNINHABITABLE. If we could get water, now matter how hard or easy it is to do so, it would remove the risk of burning to death or dieing in lava, which are the biggest dangers in the nether.
From what I read, the OP DIDN'T ignore your point; HIS point is that, to a sufficiently prepared player, the Nether ISN'T dangerous. "Supposed to" is not the same thing as "is". Uninhabitable? People make bases there all the time! Risk of burning to death/falling in lava?
Find Nether Wart > Get Blaze Rods > Make Brewing Stand and Magma Cream > Potions of Fire Resistance. They ALREADY remove the risk of fire and lava to the player! And I'd say their difficulty to acquire depends on how close to your first Nether Portal a Nether Fortress is... Spawn close to one, you'd probably have the ingredients needed when you leave...
I'm agreeing with the OP here; I think water should be allowed in the Nether, but yes, make it difficult to get, because I do see how it can ruin the current flow of the Nether; Make it something you can only do after conquering the Nether! Perhaps you can only put water in the Nether after beating the Enderdragon? Because quite honestly, by then, you've probably made a Blaze farm or something. Once you conquer the Nether, you...really should be allowed to have your way with the place. IMO.
The nether is supposed to be more difficulty than the overworld. That is the POINT. It is supposed to be DANGEROUS and UNINHABITABLE. If we could get water, now matter how hard or easy it is to do so, it would remove the risk of burning to death or dieing in lava, which are the biggest dangers in the nether.
With or without water, the Nether will still be more difficult (which is to say, not that difficult at all). The Nether is already suitable for habitation, once you throw some Cobblestone in the mix. In fact, unless you completely lose your portal, the Nether is perfectly hospitable without water.
Not to mention, you're scoffing off the thoughts of the possible requirements to allow water in the Nether. What if you had to kill 10,000 Nether mobs to get a special item that allowed you to create a single water source block in the Nether? That's OP? Even with all that time and effort put into getting it?
Heck, if someone were that dedicated, I'd give him the ability to fly.
The question here is why you are opposed to letting someone eventually obtain a method of putting water in the Nether, when everything in this game is reward from time and effort. I'm not saying "hy guiz bcktz shld plc wtr in teh nthr", I'm saying that there should be A way to eventually get water into the Nether legitimately in Survival.
It's not OP if it's not easy. It's not a balance issue" because the game has no serious form of balance.
As you are Steve, you could make your entire world unsuitable for mob spawning besides in your traps. Is that not "OP" as well?
You could transform your entire world into a Nether replica. Is that not "OP" as well?
You could transform your entire world into a single, small paradise of an island. Is that not "OP" as well?
No, they aren't OP, because of the time and effort put into accomplishing your goal.
Why should terraforming and taming the world around you be OP when everyone does it on a regular basis?
It's not OP.
It's never going to be OP.
Stop deluding yourself that it would be OP for a player to put significant time and effort to be able to control the Nether and just outright admit it that you only just don't want it.
I don't give a crap about realism, I care about what makes the game fun, and removing challenge is not fun.
From what I read, the OP DIDN'T ignore your point; HIS point is that, to a sufficiently prepared player, the Nether ISN'T dangerous. "Supposed to" is not the same thing as "is". Uninhabitable? People make bases there all the time! Risk of burning to death/falling in lava?
Find Nether Wart > Get Blaze Rods > Make Brewing Stand and Magma Cream > Potions of Fire Resistance. They ALREADY remove the risk of fire and lava to the player! And I'd say their difficulty to acquire depends on how close to your first Nether Portal a Nether Fortress is... Spawn close to one, you'd probably have the ingredients needed when you leave...
I'm agreeing with the OP here; I think water should be allowed in the Nether, but yes, make it difficult to get, because I do see how it can ruin the current flow of the Nether; Make it something you can only do after conquering the Nether! Perhaps you can only put water in the Nether after beating the Enderdragon? Because quite honestly, by then, you've probably made a Blaze farm or something. Once you conquer the Nether, you...really should be allowed to have your way with the place. IMO.
Fire resistance potions require combat with a creature that, at times, can't be hit without using a bow, and sets you on fire, completely ignoring any armor you are wearing and causing direct damage to your health.
Fire resistance potions are also only temporary. They only last a few minutes. Being able to place water in the nether would be an infinite immunity to fire because you can just plop some water down and pick it back up when you are done with it in that area.
Also, nether bases don't mean that the nether can be inhabited. You need to have constant access to the overworld and always have good gear if you want to stand a chance on any nether trips that go more than about a dozen blocks from your portal.
Fire resistance potions require combat with a creature that, at times, can't be hit without using a bow, and sets you on fire, completely ignoring any armor you are wearing and causing direct damage to your health.
Fire resistance potions are also only temporary. They only last a few minutes. Being able to place water in the nether would be an infinite immunity to fire because you can just plop some water down and pick it back up when you are done with it in that area.
Yes, but once you get a lot, you never fear lava and fire again. Also, you're kinda boiling down his argument to ONE option. I do not recall the OP ever saying that you should be able to place water in the nether then pick it up and replace it for EVERY option. That was just ONE option, an enchanted bucket. (Don't remember if he or someone else said it, though.) If you go with ice or enchanted ice, though, you break the block and the water is there forever; you wouldn't be able to move it. So, not infinite immunity. It would encourage more strategic placement of water in the Nether.
...namely, in the ceiling...
Also, really, Fire Resistance potions don't seem THAT hard to get once you make a Blaze farm. Sure, they're hard to deal with at first, but once you farm them, you never fear fire and lava again. Temporary? Just use it when you need it. ._.
It's more of a challenge than the overworld, and letting you put water in it but make it less dangerous than it is now.
Still not a challenge to the established player (more like a cake walk) so why shouldn't the established player be able to have his way with the Nether?
Fire resistance potions require combat with a creature that, at times, can't be hit without using a bow, and sets you on fire, completely ignoring any armor you are wearing and causing direct damage to your health.
Corner abuse and patience means you can lead a Blaze into a place you can melee him with that Diamond Sword you brought to the Nether.
Do it a couple times, and you've got everything you need for fire resistance potions.
You also seem to forget that I basically suggested water in the nether could be a reward for killing 10000 Nether mobs which requires combat.
Fire resistance potions are also only temporary. They only last a few minutes. Being able to place water in the nether would be an infinite immunity to fire because you can just plop some water down and pick it back up when you are done with it in that area.
You can accomplish a ton in eight minutes. For example, you could go conquer that Blaze spawner you were messing around with before and turn it into an exp farm/blaze rod farm.
If anything, Fire Resistance potions already fufill the role of extinguishing a player and providing an infinite immunity.
Also, nether bases don't mean that the nether can be inhabited. You need to have constant access to the overworld and always have good gear if you want to stand a chance on any nether trips that go more than about a dozen blocks from your portal.
Good gear here being a bow, some arrows, cobblestone and food.
No. The only use I could possibly see for water is to cheese the blazes and I don't want any of that. Gotta keep some difficulty.Sorry for the double post but if you want to tame the nether than just bring a bunch of half slabs and any building material from the overworld.
No. The only use I could possibly see for water is to cheese the blazes and I don't want any of that. Gotta keep some difficulty.
Sorry for the double post but if you want to tame the nether than just bring a bunch of half slabs and any building material from the overworld.
People already cheese the Blazes by building mob traps around them, though. Sure, they get you until you build it, but after that, they're pathetically easy if you build your farm right. All you do is enclose them and get them to a point where you can easily whack their health away without the threat of them shooting you. People have done this before, without water; having water really wouldn't change much, IMO. :/
People already cheese the Blazes by building mob traps around them, though. Sure, they get you until you build it, but after that, they're pathetically easy if you build your farm right. All you do is enclose them and get them to a point where you can easily whack their health away without the threat of them shooting you. People have done this before, without water; having water really wouldn't change much, IMO. :/
But like you said at first you had to fight them normally which is all I care about. Cause once you get some blaze rods all you have to do is make potions of fire resistance.
But like you said at first you had to fight them normally which is all I care about. Cause once you get some blaze rods all you have to do is make potions of fire resistance.
Adding the end game capability of adding water to the Nether wouldn't affect Blazes in the slightest before end game now would it.
End game here being after beating that Enderdragon or being strong enough to do so.
I mean, heck, you'll have a blaze farm before you head into the End anyway. You need one anyway and having water well after you beat the dragon won't change that :v
Adding the end game capability of adding water to the Nether wouldn't affect Blazes in the slightest before end game now would it.
End game here being after beating that Enderdragon or being strong enough to do so.
I mean, heck, you'll have a blaze farm before you head into the End anyway. You need one anyway and having water well after you beat the dragon won't change that :v
That's funny, I thought that you said the enderdragon wasn't a challenge at all...
It's a seasonable gameplay design choice. Water doesn't belong in the Nether because it's hot, hellish, and meant to be hostile and unkind to the player. I'm happy Jeb removed the possibility of water being in the realm.
I look at the issue of water in Nether from a different perspective. Not whether it is realistic but whether it makes the game more enjoyable? After all, enjoyment is why we play.
From the perspective of enjoyment it is my opinion (and nothing more than my opinion) that water should not occur naturally in the Nether, but you should be able to haul it in and place it (or place ice to get water).
For some of us - nothing gives us a better sense of accomplishment than the completion of an impressive creation in a challenging environment like the Nether. Water would add many interesting options.
Lava is dangerous to handle if you don't handle it correctly, so it gives some challenge to replicating the same farms from the overworld in the nether.
I don't mean to get hung up on this point, but again, this is really terrible reasoning... First of all, ALL games are purely for fun. A game's primary purpose is to entertain. Second, those games most certainly do have balance; more so than Minecraft. You cannot do whatever you want whenever you want in them. Single player games often put you in control of a character with superhuman abilities simply because it's more entertaining. It doesn't mean the games are easy or there is no 'balance'. Think back to Mega Man, Metriod, or Gradius. Those games are hard as hell the first time around.
And in regards to your argument about things not having to make sense outside of the minecraft universe, I get that. Some things should be a certain way to maintain good game-play regardless of their feasibility in the real world. Take the Gradius for example. Gravity is mirrored on the ceiling. Does that make sense? No, but otherwise the duckers wouldn't be able to traipse about on the ceiling shooting shiny rocks at you.
This point is moot and neither in favor nor against your stance. In Minecraft, Trees grow without water in the nether just as green penis men blow up your house. Ergo, If you say that it is necessary and worth changing a vital game mechanic to preserve the relationship between trees and water, then we must also remove everything else that doesn't make sense. viz. the aforementioned penis men.
All that being said, I think the idea of having another, unique liquid in the nether is fascinating. Maybe mercury? Or oil? I dunno. I'm not against another liquid, I just think water is out of place in the nether. Aside from the balance issues, water isn't suited for a hell like environment.
The nether is supposed to be more difficulty than the overworld. That is the POINT. It is supposed to be DANGEROUS and UNINHABITABLE. If we could get water, now matter how hard or easy it is to do so, it would remove the risk of burning to death or dieing in lava, which are the biggest dangers in the nether.
I don't give a crap about realism, I care about what makes the game fun, and removing challenge is not fun.
From what I read, the OP DIDN'T ignore your point; HIS point is that, to a sufficiently prepared player, the Nether ISN'T dangerous. "Supposed to" is not the same thing as "is". Uninhabitable? People make bases there all the time! Risk of burning to death/falling in lava?
Find Nether Wart > Get Blaze Rods > Make Brewing Stand and Magma Cream > Potions of Fire Resistance. They ALREADY remove the risk of fire and lava to the player! And I'd say their difficulty to acquire depends on how close to your first Nether Portal a Nether Fortress is... Spawn close to one, you'd probably have the ingredients needed when you leave...
I'm agreeing with the OP here; I think water should be allowed in the Nether, but yes, make it difficult to get, because I do see how it can ruin the current flow of the Nether; Make it something you can only do after conquering the Nether! Perhaps you can only put water in the Nether after beating the Enderdragon? Because quite honestly, by then, you've probably made a Blaze farm or something. Once you conquer the Nether, you...really should be allowed to have your way with the place. IMO.
Not to mention, you're scoffing off the thoughts of the possible requirements to allow water in the Nether. What if you had to kill 10,000 Nether mobs to get a special item that allowed you to create a single water source block in the Nether? That's OP? Even with all that time and effort put into getting it?
Heck, if someone were that dedicated, I'd give him the ability to fly.
The question here is why you are opposed to letting someone eventually obtain a method of putting water in the Nether, when everything in this game is reward from time and effort. I'm not saying "hy guiz bcktz shld plc wtr in teh nthr", I'm saying that there should be A way to eventually get water into the Nether legitimately in Survival.
It's not OP if it's not easy. It's not a balance issue" because the game has no serious form of balance.
As you are Steve, you could make your entire world unsuitable for mob spawning besides in your traps. Is that not "OP" as well?
You could transform your entire world into a Nether replica. Is that not "OP" as well?
You could transform your entire world into a single, small paradise of an island. Is that not "OP" as well?
No, they aren't OP, because of the time and effort put into accomplishing your goal.
Why should terraforming and taming the world around you be OP when everyone does it on a regular basis?
It's not OP.
It's never going to be OP.
Stop deluding yourself that it would be OP for a player to put significant time and effort to be able to control the Nether and just outright admit it that you only just don't want it.
The Nether isn't a challenge.
It's more of a challenge than the overworld, and letting you put water in it but make it less dangerous than it is now.
Fire resistance potions require combat with a creature that, at times, can't be hit without using a bow, and sets you on fire, completely ignoring any armor you are wearing and causing direct damage to your health.
Fire resistance potions are also only temporary. They only last a few minutes. Being able to place water in the nether would be an infinite immunity to fire because you can just plop some water down and pick it back up when you are done with it in that area.
Also, nether bases don't mean that the nether can be inhabited. You need to have constant access to the overworld and always have good gear if you want to stand a chance on any nether trips that go more than about a dozen blocks from your portal.
Yes, but once you get a lot, you never fear lava and fire again. Also, you're kinda boiling down his argument to ONE option. I do not recall the OP ever saying that you should be able to place water in the nether then pick it up and replace it for EVERY option. That was just ONE option, an enchanted bucket. (Don't remember if he or someone else said it, though.) If you go with ice or enchanted ice, though, you break the block and the water is there forever; you wouldn't be able to move it. So, not infinite immunity. It would encourage more strategic placement of water in the Nether.
...namely, in the ceiling...
Also, really, Fire Resistance potions don't seem THAT hard to get once you make a Blaze farm. Sure, they're hard to deal with at first, but once you farm them, you never fear fire and lava again. Temporary? Just use it when you need it. ._.
Corner abuse and patience means you can lead a Blaze into a place you can melee him with that Diamond Sword you brought to the Nether.
Do it a couple times, and you've got everything you need for fire resistance potions.
You also seem to forget that I basically suggested water in the nether could be a reward for killing 10000 Nether mobs which requires combat.
You can accomplish a ton in eight minutes. For example, you could go conquer that Blaze spawner you were messing around with before and turn it into an exp farm/blaze rod farm.
If anything, Fire Resistance potions already fufill the role of extinguishing a player and providing an infinite immunity.
Good gear here being a bow, some arrows, cobblestone and food.
Optional: Leather armor
People already cheese the Blazes by building mob traps around them, though. Sure, they get you until you build it, but after that, they're pathetically easy if you build your farm right. All you do is enclose them and get them to a point where you can easily whack their health away without the threat of them shooting you. People have done this before, without water; having water really wouldn't change much, IMO. :/
But like you said at first you had to fight them normally which is all I care about. Cause once you get some blaze rods all you have to do is make potions of fire resistance.
End game here being after beating that Enderdragon or being strong enough to do so.
I mean, heck, you'll have a blaze farm before you head into the End anyway. You need one anyway and having water well after you beat the dragon won't change that :v
That's funny, I thought that you said the enderdragon wasn't a challenge at all...
Yeah, you did. Right here.
You'll also have a blaze farm up before the dragon anyway, and water that comes after beating that monotonous dragon won't change that.
> Implying then that the Minecraft physics should be stupid and backwards.
From the perspective of enjoyment it is my opinion (and nothing more than my opinion) that water should not occur naturally in the Nether, but you should be able to haul it in and place it (or place ice to get water).
For some of us - nothing gives us a better sense of accomplishment than the completion of an impressive creation in a challenging environment like the Nether. Water would add many interesting options.