In light of the recent Snapshot, we're getting Silk Touched Ice again! Woohoo!
They fixed the major bug of Silk Touch getting the Ice Block back while also creating a Source Block, but they removed the entire capability of making water as well.
Was it really that bad to have water in the Nether? Did water in the Nether really need to be removed? Or is this just another lame way to fix Ice in the Nether?
I honestly see no issue with letting Water somehow be used in the Nether (and no, I'm not talking about cauldrons).
What about you?
Some common arguments:
You just want to use buckets in the Nether!
No, no I don't. I want some way of legitimately placing water in the Nether. I don't want it to be as easy as silk touching the common Ice or using a bucket to place it.
It can be as complex as having to go to an entirely new realm to fight a tough boss to get one component of an item, then going to another to get another component, then crafting those components together to create a special item that can only be used after you beat the Enderdragon, or it can be as simple as finding a rare type of Ice block (called Glacial Ice for example) and using the also fairly-rare Silk Touch enchant to collect it.
Some way.
It doesn't have to be easy.
Just some way to put water in the Nether.
Water in the Nether will just make it ridiculously easy!
It is already easy for the established player. The Overworld makes the Nether a ridiculously easy place to traverse. I would not change much to have a difficult/challenging means of legitimately placing water in the Nether, besides improving an established players capabilities there.
It would defy logic!
Everything in this game defies logic. The mere fact you can go to the Nether and not die immediately defies logic if the Nether is so hot that it evaporates water instantly. The fact that flammable materials do not burn unless close to fire/lava in this "Hell" defies logic.
And to go a step further, you can already turn the Nether is an igloo with red fog. Snow and Ice blocks do not melt (Ice only melting when near a light source), but I see no one complaining about the logic of this.
In fact, the fact that no one is complaining about them bugs me.
You think that water in the Nether would defy logic and then think that frozen water in perfectly acceptable?
Water in the Nether would make a serious balance issue!
How?
The game does not have any serious balancing in the first place.
And, even if it did, what would it unbalance?
Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
The Nether is a hellscape! It wouldn't make sense!
Ice and Snow in this "hellscape" prove that it is not a hellscape as you imagine it.
Well, i think there shold be water in the nether, but no by buckets, ice water after all is really cold, so, COLD + HOT = NEUTRAL. But it only has to run four blocks from source.
Well, i think there shold be water in the nether, but no by buckets, ice water after all is really cold, so, COLD + HOT = NEUTRAL. But it only has to run four blocks from source.
Your logic astounds me.
I never realized that if you place an ice cube in a hot area, it balances the temperature in the entire area
I wonder if the same thing happens if I place an ice cube in the stove, or bring it with me into a desert
I can see how it'd really defeat a lot of the difficulty of the Nether, but on the other hand... I want water in the Nether. I want to douse lava, and more importantly, I want to make a fertile farm there.
I'd accept a compromise of making it a little challenging to make water stick. Ice blocks seem a little odd to me, but maybe an enchanted bucket, if Mojang could work out how to make said bucket not last forever. Maybe buckets need a damage bar, not just for enchanting, but due to the general overpowered status of a single bucket vs. lava lakes.
If you really want water in the nether then why have it the nether at all?
I am not being cynical here its a legitimate question as there are mods out there that allow for parallel overworlds and portals between them (At least there were).
Truthfully I think that the food meter should drain faster in the Nether because its "so hot" that you can't operate as easily as in the overworld. But I suppose its a ballance thing. With all the Lava there It is probably more a matter of dealing with people making Obsidian farms there with Lava acting there as water does in the overworld it would be almost pathetically easy to make an automated or near automated Obsidian harvester, kind of like how people make Cobblestone makers now.
If you really want water in the nether then why have it the nether at all?
Sort of a backwards question, imo.
I'm not asking for water to be naturally generated in the Nether. That would provide no reason for the Nether to exist at all.
However, I'm intrigued by the thought of being capable of taming the nether.
And really, if you look at that blue on a pinkish-red backdrop... It looks amazing.
But I suppose its a ballance thing. With all the Lava there It is probably more a matter of dealing with people making Obsidian farms there with Lava acting there as water does in the overworld it would be almost pathetically easy to make an automated or near automated Obsidian harvester, kind of like how people make Cobblestone makers now.
1. Why would there be a "balance" issue with people getting Obsidian?
2. The only thing different between Overworld lava and Nether lava is how far Nether lava flows. You cannot make an infinite lava spring. Automated Obsidian harvesters were only possible when it was possible to make an infinite lava spring with four lava source blocks surrounding a single block, but that was a glitch and got taken out the next update. The only thing you could make with Water and Lava farms in the Nether would be a Stone/Cobblestone farm, which you can make anywhere.
The only real balance issue would be the capability of getting more than just a few blocks of Obsidian, but hey, if you're going to spend all that time mining Obsidian, go ahead.
Really, the only things I see from allowing water in the Nether are beneficial.
It's just a simple matter of flavor. The Nether is a fire dimension: therefore, water dries up inside of it. Water in the nether is just slightly oxymoronic and makes no sense. Also, as WarGiver was trying to say but ran into some issues with wording, what would you want with water in the Nether that you couldn't have with water in the Overworld?
It's just a simple matter of flavor. The Nether is a fire dimension: therefore, water dries up inside of it. Water in the nether is just slightly oxymoronic and makes no sense.
...It could be made to make sense.
Hell, none of Minecraft really makes sense when looked at, but it all makes sense within the span of the game.
Also, as WarGiver was trying to say but ran into some issues with wording, what would you want with water in the Nether that you couldn't have with water in the Overworld?
Well, from what water was capable of while we had it:
Blaze Farms
Zombie Pigman Farms
Other farms
Easily accessible Obsidian (still requires a lot of time though)
The ability to live in the Nether (without the constant need to run to the Overworld)
Also realistic recreations of the overworld in the Nether. Plenty of decorative options in the Nether once water is thrown in.
Heck, have you seen water against the backdrop of the Nether? Quite nice.
I suppose this is just me saying that I want it to be legitimately possible to tame the Nether.
Since the nether is underground deep under the earth's surface and closer to the earth's burning core water would disintegrate because of the pure heat.
It would work if they added an ice nether made of lapis and water.
For farms for nether mobs just use lava to push them to places and a lava elevator because all nether mobs are fire resistant anyway
Since the nether is underground deep under the earth's surface and closer to the earth's burning core water would disintegrate because of the pure heat.
Last time I checked, it was confirmed that the Nether was not "Earth's" core, but some place else entirely.
An entirely different dimension, in fact. Notch confirmed as such.
It would work if they added an ice nether made of lapis and water.
It would be cool but that is much less likely to happen than adding a way to get water in the Nether.
Last time I checked, it was confirmed that the Nether was not "Earth's" core, but some place else entirely.
Well the nether is clearly based off hell and it would be super hot there. Plant a tree and the leaves are a really hot shade of green like you would see in a desert. Water disintegrates in hot temperatures.
Well the nether is clearly based off hell and it would be super hot there. Plant a tree and the leaves are a really hot shade of green like you would see in a desert. Water disintegrates in hot temperatures.
Well, yeah, but it is an entirely different dimension.
And how do you explain the growth of anything from the overworld down there if it was so hot that it prevented water from being placed?
Well, yeah, but it is an entirely different dimension.
And how do you explain the growth of anything from the overworld down there if it was so hot that it prevented water from being placed?
The enderdragon is unfinished, and the nether IS hard to live in. It is next to impossible to live in the nether. You are restricted to wooden tools and maintaining a gigantic farm, since you can't irrigate, which causes the wheat to grow incredibly slowly.
It is also very easy to die in the nether, and you can't set your spawn. The nether is hard to live in, and can even be deadly on short trips to get materials.
The enderdragon is unfinished, and the nether IS hard to live in. It is next to impossible to live in the nether. You are restricted to wooden tools and maintaining a gigantic farm, since you can't irrigate, which causes the wheat to grow incredibly slowly.
It is also very easy to die in the nether, and you can't set your spawn. The nether is hard to live in, and can even be deadly on short trips to get materials.
That's only if you've intentionally gimped yourself by removing your portal.
Otherwise, there is no real significant "hardness" to the Nether.
They fixed the major bug of Silk Touch getting the Ice Block back while also creating a Source Block, but they removed the entire capability of making water as well.
Was it really that bad to have water in the Nether? Did water in the Nether really need to be removed? Or is this just another lame way to fix Ice in the Nether?
I honestly see no issue with letting Water somehow be used in the Nether (and no, I'm not talking about cauldrons).
What about you?
Some common arguments:
You just want to use buckets in the Nether!
No, no I don't. I want some way of legitimately placing water in the Nether. I don't want it to be as easy as silk touching the common Ice or using a bucket to place it.
It can be as complex as having to go to an entirely new realm to fight a tough boss to get one component of an item, then going to another to get another component, then crafting those components together to create a special item that can only be used after you beat the Enderdragon, or it can be as simple as finding a rare type of Ice block (called Glacial Ice for example) and using the also fairly-rare Silk Touch enchant to collect it.
Some way.
It doesn't have to be easy.
Just some way to put water in the Nether.
Water in the Nether will just make it ridiculously easy!
It is already easy for the established player. The Overworld makes the Nether a ridiculously easy place to traverse. I would not change much to have a difficult/challenging means of legitimately placing water in the Nether, besides improving an established players capabilities there.
It would defy logic!
Everything in this game defies logic. The mere fact you can go to the Nether and not die immediately defies logic if the Nether is so hot that it evaporates water instantly. The fact that flammable materials do not burn unless close to fire/lava in this "Hell" defies logic.
And to go a step further, you can already turn the Nether is an igloo with red fog. Snow and Ice blocks do not melt (Ice only melting when near a light source), but I see no one complaining about the logic of this.
In fact, the fact that no one is complaining about them bugs me.
You think that water in the Nether would defy logic and then think that frozen water in perfectly acceptable?
Water in the Nether would make a serious balance issue!
How?
The game does not have any serious balancing in the first place.
And, even if it did, what would it unbalance?
Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
The Nether is a hellscape! It wouldn't make sense!
Ice and Snow in this "hellscape" prove that it is not a hellscape as you imagine it.
Your logic astounds me.
I never realized that if you place an ice cube in a hot area, it balances the temperature in the entire area
I wonder if the same thing happens if I place an ice cube in the stove, or bring it with me into a desert
The power of ice is amazing
I'd accept a compromise of making it a little challenging to make water stick. Ice blocks seem a little odd to me, but maybe an enchanted bucket, if Mojang could work out how to make said bucket not last forever. Maybe buckets need a damage bar, not just for enchanting, but due to the general overpowered status of a single bucket vs. lava lakes.
I am not being cynical here its a legitimate question as there are mods out there that allow for parallel overworlds and portals between them (At least there were).
Truthfully I think that the food meter should drain faster in the Nether because its "so hot" that you can't operate as easily as in the overworld. But I suppose its a ballance thing. With all the Lava there It is probably more a matter of dealing with people making Obsidian farms there with Lava acting there as water does in the overworld it would be almost pathetically easy to make an automated or near automated Obsidian harvester, kind of like how people make Cobblestone makers now.
I'm not asking for water to be naturally generated in the Nether. That would provide no reason for the Nether to exist at all.
However, I'm intrigued by the thought of being capable of taming the nether.
And really, if you look at that blue on a pinkish-red backdrop... It looks amazing.
1. Why would there be a "balance" issue with people getting Obsidian?
2. The only thing different between Overworld lava and Nether lava is how far Nether lava flows. You cannot make an infinite lava spring. Automated Obsidian harvesters were only possible when it was possible to make an infinite lava spring with four lava source blocks surrounding a single block, but that was a glitch and got taken out the next update. The only thing you could make with Water and Lava farms in the Nether would be a Stone/Cobblestone farm, which you can make anywhere.
The only real balance issue would be the capability of getting more than just a few blocks of Obsidian, but hey, if you're going to spend all that time mining Obsidian, go ahead.
Really, the only things I see from allowing water in the Nether are beneficial.
Hell, none of Minecraft really makes sense when looked at, but it all makes sense within the span of the game.
Well, from what water was capable of while we had it:
Blaze Farms
Zombie Pigman Farms
Other farms
Easily accessible Obsidian (still requires a lot of time though)
The ability to live in the Nether (without the constant need to run to the Overworld)
Also realistic recreations of the overworld in the Nether. Plenty of decorative options in the Nether once water is thrown in.
Heck, have you seen water against the backdrop of the Nether? Quite nice.
I suppose this is just me saying that I want it to be legitimately possible to tame the Nether.
It would work if they added an ice nether made of lapis and water.
For farms for nether mobs just use lava to push them to places and a lava elevator because all nether mobs are fire resistant anyway
An entirely different dimension, in fact. Notch confirmed as such.
It would be cool but that is much less likely to happen than adding a way to get water in the Nether.
Lava does not push anything. It flows but does not push. The only real use for lava in the Nether is for lava elevators.
That's the whole purpose of the nether. If we could put water in it, it would become easy to live in, defeating the entire purpose of the nether.
Well the nether is clearly based off hell and it would be super hot there. Plant a tree and the leaves are a really hot shade of green like you would see in a desert. Water disintegrates in hot temperatures.
Just like the Enderdragon is hard.
Well, yeah, but it is an entirely different dimension.
And how do you explain the growth of anything from the overworld down there if it was so hot that it prevented water from being placed?
The enderdragon is unfinished, and the nether IS hard to live in. It is next to impossible to live in the nether. You are restricted to wooden tools and maintaining a gigantic farm, since you can't irrigate, which causes the wheat to grow incredibly slowly.
It is also very easy to die in the nether, and you can't set your spawn. The nether is hard to live in, and can even be deadly on short trips to get materials.
Otherwise, there is no real significant "hardness" to the Nether.
Just as the Enderdragon is not hard.
Remove it now!