call me stupid, but what is the "mod api" that keeps getting mentioned? and why do i suspect it will let me download mods w/o having to download anything else with it?
I'd rather have Mojang enhance Minecrafts engine, such as creating support for colored lights (and I mean really colored lights, not that half-assed thing Notch put there in 1.8) and moving lights (like a move-able light emitting entity) and leave modding to modders.
AFAIK coloured lights are supported in the engine, they just aren't used much beyond tinging certain kinds of light.
Minecraft Forge is already THE Modding API,
De facto. Not De juere.
and there's no way Mojang will ever develop an API as good as Forge both because Forge already has a lot of time in advance, and because of the coding skills gap between them.
That's just plain dumb .
Anyone who sets up MCP and compares Mojang's code vs Forge's notices the difference.
MCP is not Mojang's code. All you are comparing is the code of the people who work on the MCP and Forge.
In the end, all you'll end up doing is load Minecraft with more code, that besides not being used by most people (seriously, you can't expect a first release to beat Forge's history, and modders to just move from Forge to MC API just because it's new and ''official''), will be slowing the game down even more, which will affect low-end machine users.
Only code that is executed has an effect on speed.
Also, you'll just be wasting a release to give players something they already have, or give them a worse version of it
Not all mods can be implemented using Forge's API. Another important point is they aren't giving players something they already have, because NOT EVERY PLAYER USES MODS. This is something I find people who are always using mods just don't understand; they assume I know things about tekkit, and technic, and when I tell them I don't play with mods, it's like they've met a ghost. They make handwavey generalizations that "everybody uses mods" based on a sample size of one- themselves.
while doing what you've been doing since Beta 1.7: Waste a release to implement something that has already been done in a Mod, but buggier.
Here's my opinion on Mods: them. If every single Minecraft mod dissappeared off the face of the Earth, I wouldn't give two s. In fact, things would be better overall because you'd have fewer amateur programmer s pretending they have "leet skillz" because they don't understand that deobfuscated code does not in any way represent the source from which it was created. Another important point: Forge is a mod, in and of itself. And as a result, it could be rearchitected with the release of the official API to be something of an "adapter" between forge mods and the official API. With the advantage that all Forge mods would then work in future versions (as long as the API didn't have a breaking change). Same applies to other mods for mods, such as modloader; by rewriting those base mods to work with the new API, all the mods that use it suddenly because "API Compliant" as well, and work in future versions on their own.
That is, there is a definite benefit regardless of whether you believe Forge is an actual API rather than an API modded into the game (which is what it is).
1.7: Pistons, already existed
A lot of things added to the game existed as mods before. The difference is that mods are by definition disgusting hacks, overriding and changing base class behaviour to achieve the desired results in what can only be described as a set of kludges that turn your Minecraft install into an even bigger rube-goldberg machine.
1.8: Villages, it's 1.3.2 and Millenaire's are still better
Yes, but the ones in Vanilla don't freeze my game like Millenaire's did. Was that bug fixed? How long did that take? I know it took at least three minecraft versions before it was even acknowledged as existing, and even then they tried to blame the "architecture" of the game. In the meantime, I basically wasted about three weeks playing a dead-end world that would eventually become unplayable.
1.9: enchantments: been done before... 1.2: jungles, cats: more biomes and more creatures? where have I seen that before?)
Never played a mod that had enchantments, in fact never even heard of one. Mo ' Creatures cat implementation takes it to an extreme, IMO. I mean, really, I don't like cleaning cat Litter in real life, why the would I want to do it in a game? What's next, you need to housebreak the ing things? But I digress.
Also remember that not everyone wants an RPG.
You should remember that not every player likes Mods, either. As far as an RPG, it has no story or background- right now all it has is an end that isn't really "the end" of sorts. So, no, you don't play the role of a character in a story. I've always hated people equating things like leveling and magic with Role Playing Games, because the two are completely disparate concepts.
Minecraft gained popularity as a Sandbox game.
Says you.
If players want RPG features, more animals, more biomes, machines, there are mods that do that.
Wouldn't this argument have worked equally well right when Notch first had "cave test" ready. "Oh, I'm too lazy to actually add anything, but the game is done. If you want torches, caves, grass, farming, slabs, furnaces, crafting tables, item chests, bows, and so forth, I'm sure you can just write some code that rewrites some of my base classes in weird ways to get it done." So the question is, is that reducing the argument to the absurd? I don't think so.
Having those 'optional' features being there by default isn't as optional as it could, mainly on SMP (the fun part of MC)
Opinion.
You should just focus on making the game run on less CPU cost, and probably move some rendering stuff to the graphics card. Maybe use a greater version of OpenGL? with 1.1 it can run on machines from the late 90's, but no machine from that time has the CPU power to run this game, so it kind of defeats the purpose...
You obviously are misinformed about what different OpenGL Versions actually mean. All it means is that the graphics card supports certain features. If a game/software doesn't need those features, requiring that version has no advantage or meaning. Besides, when they tried to move to 1.3 for the multitexturing capability people threw a fit because some Intel chips didn't like it. (or something, I forget the specifics).
I think it's going to take more than one blog post to convince the minecraft community that Mojang is doing anything with the API.
I am not a modder. I don't pretend to be, but I have downloaded what seems like hundreds of mods. I check to see if certain mods are getting updated daily. I think what would really help the modding community most is if Mojang just stopped updating. Seriously, I think modders spend huge amounts of time just updating to the newest monthly patch.
I think mojang could make the best API and make a garden of eden for modders, but they won't. Not enough resources, and since the X-box version has gotten so popular it just means less time spent on the API.
call me stupid, but what is the "mod api" that keeps getting mentioned? and why do i suspect it will let me download mods w/o having to download anything else with it?
That's the general idea. Additional it's supposed to allow minecraft to be updated without having to make new versions of mods.
They even mentioned making "official mods" letting a player add specific features to suit there play style.
I think it's going to take more than one blog post to convince the minecraft community that Mojang is doing anything with the API.
I am not a modder. I don't pretend to be, but I have downloaded what seems like hundreds of mods. I check to see if certain mods are getting updated daily. I think what would really help the modding community most is if Mojang just stopped updating. Seriously, I think modders spend huge amounts of time just updating to the newest monthly patch.
I think mojang could make the best API and make a garden of eden for modders, but they won't. Not enough resources, and since the X-box version has gotten so popular it just means less time spent on the API.
They already sent out requests to moders to see what features they wil need to support.
As stated in my last post the mod API will reduce the need for new versions of mods. As they will be able to update minecraft without changing the API.
The X-box version has almost nothing to so with the pc version. There not even developed by the same team.
I'm good as long as it's compatible with bukkit server plugins.
Throwing away all the work done by the bukkit plugin developers would be a very bad idea.
I recall back when Mojang took on some of the Bukkit devs, it was mentioned they would attempt to retain some compatibility with Bukkit plugins unless it would hinder the Mod API development. It's not realistic to expect full compatibility but from what I understand so long as plugins are properly coded and kept up to date it's supposed to be fairly simple to make whatever changes are needed. The actual end result of course is anyone's guess.
I'd rather have Mojang enhance Minecrafts engine, such as creating support for colored lights (and I mean really colored lights, not that half-assed thing Notch put there in 1.8) and moving lights (like a move-able light emitting entity) and leave modding to modders.
Minecraft Forge is already THE Modding API, and there's no way Mojang will ever develop an API as good as Forge, both because Forge already has a lot of time in advance, and because of the coding skills gap between them. Anyone who sets up MCP and compares Mojang's code vs Forge's notices the difference.
In the end, all you'll end up doing is load Minecraft with more code, that besides not being used by most people (seriously, you can't expect a first release to beat Forge's history, and modders to just move from Forge to MC API just because it's new and ''official''), will be slowing the game down even more, which will affect low-end machine users.
Also, you'll just be wasting a release to give players something they already have, or give them a worse version of it, while doing what you've been doing since Beta 1.7: Waste a release to implement something that has already been done in a Mod, but buggier. And besides a buggier implementation of what has already been made, you're turning your amazing Sandbox game into an RPG.
(1.7: Pistons, already existed, 1.8: Villages, it's 1.3.2 and Millenaire's are still better; 1.9: enchantments: been done before; 1.2: jungles, cats: more biomes and more creatures? where have I seen that before?)
Also remember that not everyone wants an RPG. Minecraft gained popularity as a Sandbox game. If players want RPG features, more animals, more biomes, machines, there are mods that do that. Having those 'optional' features being there by default isn't as optional as it could, mainly on SMP (the fun part of MC), where other players can take advantage of them over players that don't feel like using them. Even mods allow to disable features we don't want from that mod...
You should just focus on making the game run on less CPU cost, and probably move some rendering stuff to the graphics card. Maybe use a greater version of OpenGL? with 1.1 it can run on machines from the late 90's, but no machine from that time has the CPU power to run this game, so it kind of defeats the purpose...
And those were my 2 cents.
Engine upgrades and performance upgrades will be inevitable. In fact I expect the API to increase those developments because there will be a need to stream line some of the way the features are implemented in order to support a greater amount of freedom to the modders. Say what you will about Forge but the will always be they will always be in a position where they will be riding on the shoulders of someone riding a horse where as Mojang can alter their core engine AND their API for better results.
The biggest complaint I can really see people having would be their faith in the bukkit devs vs what it might have been like to have the Forge folk(s) (not sure how many people write Forge) working in an official capacity. And the point you made about features will likely come out slower than what is already established in Forge, That is a givin see as how Forge already exists. I do not find that to be good reasoning for Mojang to ignore a focus on API development.
Also keep in mind that that API they are building is something they themselves want to be able to use in the future for official releases as well.
Either way I find most of the negativity grasping at straws at best.
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I actually want the API i love mojang
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Help me! The evil is taking me away,
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I will never come back, the world
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already gone....
They don't have the manpower to produce an API. If they did, it would have been released years ago. Yes they promised this thing years ago people.
If it's all a show I cannot wait for the dance number.
I don't understand comments like the one I've quoted. Do people truly believe Mojang is just saying they're working on it as part of an elaborate lie intended to damage the community?
...Y u no just put "news" news there? Why only Modding API news?
Either way, I'm VERY glad we're gonna actually get some info on that API.
And to all the complainers and whiners about Forge being better and Mojang "inevitably" doing a bad job, IT'S CALLED COMPATIBILITY.
I've seen TONS of mods marked "(INCOMPATIBLE WITH FORGE)". Many mods are incompatible with each other.
With any API Mojang might put in the game, all the compatibility issues will be solved once mods actually update to match the API.
Looks very interesting, i'm looking forward to the mod API
As do I. I know the team is taking a lot of pride in doing this right the first time, and I, personally, do not see an issue waiting to see the results.
As do I. I know the team is taking a lot of pride in doing this right the first time, and I, personally, do not see an issue waiting to see the results.
Yea, I'm quite excited to see what kind of features the API will entail, and as a modder myself, I am going to hope it will make making more texture indices easier among other things.
for mods that use it, probably...
the main difference will be that there will be a, well, API, for them to work against, rather than the current system which is basically mods just hacking around through the obfuscation, which changes from one version to the next.
granted, easier would be if they just stopped using obfuscation, but the problem in this case is that Java is a bit too easy to decompile, whereas at least with obfuscation people don't really know all the field/method/variable names.
AFAIK coloured lights are supported in the engine, they just aren't used much beyond tinging certain kinds of light.
De facto. Not De juere.
That's just plain dumb .
MCP is not Mojang's code. All you are comparing is the code of the people who work on the MCP and Forge.
Only code that is executed has an effect on speed.
Not all mods can be implemented using Forge's API. Another important point is they aren't giving players something they already have, because NOT EVERY PLAYER USES MODS. This is something I find people who are always using mods just don't understand; they assume I know things about tekkit, and technic, and when I tell them I don't play with mods, it's like they've met a ghost. They make handwavey generalizations that "everybody uses mods" based on a sample size of one- themselves.
Here's my opinion on Mods: them. If every single Minecraft mod dissappeared off the face of the Earth, I wouldn't give two s. In fact, things would be better overall because you'd have fewer amateur programmer s pretending they have "leet skillz" because they don't understand that deobfuscated code does not in any way represent the source from which it was created. Another important point: Forge is a mod, in and of itself. And as a result, it could be rearchitected with the release of the official API to be something of an "adapter" between forge mods and the official API. With the advantage that all Forge mods would then work in future versions (as long as the API didn't have a breaking change). Same applies to other mods for mods, such as modloader; by rewriting those base mods to work with the new API, all the mods that use it suddenly because "API Compliant" as well, and work in future versions on their own.
That is, there is a definite benefit regardless of whether you believe Forge is an actual API rather than an API modded into the game (which is what it is).
A lot of things added to the game existed as mods before. The difference is that mods are by definition disgusting hacks, overriding and changing base class behaviour to achieve the desired results in what can only be described as a set of kludges that turn your Minecraft install into an even bigger rube-goldberg machine.
Yes, but the ones in Vanilla don't freeze my game like Millenaire's did. Was that bug fixed? How long did that take? I know it took at least three minecraft versions before it was even acknowledged as existing, and even then they tried to blame the "architecture" of the game. In the meantime, I basically wasted about three weeks playing a dead-end world that would eventually become unplayable.
Never played a mod that had enchantments, in fact never even heard of one. Mo ' Creatures cat implementation takes it to an extreme, IMO. I mean, really, I don't like cleaning cat Litter in real life, why the would I want to do it in a game? What's next, you need to housebreak the ing things? But I digress.
You should remember that not every player likes Mods, either. As far as an RPG, it has no story or background- right now all it has is an end that isn't really "the end" of sorts. So, no, you don't play the role of a character in a story. I've always hated people equating things like leveling and magic with Role Playing Games, because the two are completely disparate concepts.
Says you.
Wouldn't this argument have worked equally well right when Notch first had "cave test" ready. "Oh, I'm too lazy to actually add anything, but the game is done. If you want torches, caves, grass, farming, slabs, furnaces, crafting tables, item chests, bows, and so forth, I'm sure you can just write some code that rewrites some of my base classes in weird ways to get it done." So the question is, is that reducing the argument to the absurd? I don't think so.
Opinion.
You obviously are misinformed about what different OpenGL Versions actually mean. All it means is that the graphics card supports certain features. If a game/software doesn't need those features, requiring that version has no advantage or meaning. Besides, when they tried to move to 1.3 for the multitexturing capability people threw a fit because some Intel chips didn't like it. (or something, I forget the specifics).
I am not a modder. I don't pretend to be, but I have downloaded what seems like hundreds of mods. I check to see if certain mods are getting updated daily. I think what would really help the modding community most is if Mojang just stopped updating. Seriously, I think modders spend huge amounts of time just updating to the newest monthly patch.
I think mojang could make the best API and make a garden of eden for modders, but they won't. Not enough resources, and since the X-box version has gotten so popular it just means less time spent on the API.
More like 9000.1
That's the general idea. Additional it's supposed to allow minecraft to be updated without having to make new versions of mods.
They even mentioned making "official mods" letting a player add specific features to suit there play style.
They already sent out requests to moders to see what features they wil need to support.
As stated in my last post the mod API will reduce the need for new versions of mods. As they will be able to update minecraft without changing the API.
The X-box version has almost nothing to so with the pc version. There not even developed by the same team.
I recall back when Mojang took on some of the Bukkit devs, it was mentioned they would attempt to retain some compatibility with Bukkit plugins unless it would hinder the Mod API development. It's not realistic to expect full compatibility but from what I understand so long as plugins are properly coded and kept up to date it's supposed to be fairly simple to make whatever changes are needed. The actual end result of course is anyone's guess.
My Spigot/CraftBukkit plugins:
TallNether - Generate a 256-block high nether
FarLandsAgain - Restores the Far Lands
User: *BOOM* You're dead.
Cleverbot: I divide by zero and come back as an angel ninja.
Just doing this so you know who it is
The biggest complaint I can really see people having would be their faith in the bukkit devs vs what it might have been like to have the Forge folk(s) (not sure how many people write Forge) working in an official capacity. And the point you made about features will likely come out slower than what is already established in Forge, That is a givin see as how Forge already exists. I do not find that to be good reasoning for Mojang to ignore a focus on API development.
Also keep in mind that that API they are building is something they themselves want to be able to use in the future for official releases as well.
Either way I find most of the negativity grasping at straws at best.
They don't have the manpower to produce an API. If they did, it would have been released years ago. Yes they promised this thing years ago people.
If it's all a show I cannot wait for the dance number.
I don't understand comments like the one I've quoted. Do people truly believe Mojang is just saying they're working on it as part of an elaborate lie intended to damage the community?
Minecraft, Team Fortress 2, CounterStrike: Source, Garry's Mod, etc
Build server: mc2.joe.to
PvE server: mc3.joe.to
Survival server: mc4.joe.to
Either way, I'm VERY glad we're gonna actually get some info on that API.
And to all the complainers and whiners about Forge being better and Mojang "inevitably" doing a bad job, IT'S CALLED COMPATIBILITY.
I've seen TONS of mods marked "(INCOMPATIBLE WITH FORGE)". Many mods are incompatible with each other.
With any API Mojang might put in the game, all the compatibility issues will be solved once mods actually update to match the API.
Check out my Minecraft Modding Tutorials!
As do I. I know the team is taking a lot of pride in doing this right the first time, and I, personally, do not see an issue waiting to see the results.
Yea, I'm quite excited to see what kind of features the API will entail, and as a modder myself, I am going to hope it will make making more texture indices easier among other things.
Check out my Minecraft Modding Tutorials!
Support the dinner plate!
for mods that use it, probably...
the main difference will be that there will be a, well, API, for them to work against, rather than the current system which is basically mods just hacking around through the obfuscation, which changes from one version to the next.
granted, easier would be if they just stopped using obfuscation, but the problem in this case is that Java is a bit too easy to decompile, whereas at least with obfuscation people don't really know all the field/method/variable names.