As I keep saying, its wrong because someone else worked to produce something and you are not paying.
I'm not having a go at kids playing, I'm making no sweeping judgement saying people using cracked versions should go to prison or are the devil spawn.
I don't get what the confusion is.
The people that say "yep, I play/ played cracked Mc and that's that". Fine. But its the people trying to justify it and say its ok. That's the wrong MORAL impression to be making and BAD behaviour.
If someone else works to make something, and you wish to use it then you should pay for it. That's the morals.
I'm not saying that its okay to be a cheap ass when you are perfectly capable of paying and think the game is good. I'm just saying that if it is impossible to pay for it, there is nothing morally wrong about pirating it as long as you pay for it when you can.
Notch has announced it himself; he's fine with pirates.
Pirates:
A. Generate advertising about the game. "Hey Joe, check this game out!"
B. May buy the full game after playing the pirate-version for multiplayer.
It's either situation A:
Person pirates the game, loves it, tells his friends about it, then buys it a month later for multiplayer. Both the player and Mojang are happy.
Or situation B:
Person does not pirate game, does not tell friends about it, and soon forgets about it. Neither the player nor Mojang is happy.
Yes well you still broke the law, ethics, and the UN's list of human rights, (The right to Copyright, in specific), so neither of those situations really matter.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For backwards time travel to be possible, wouldn't every instant in the universe have to be stored somewhere, or time to be something physical you could travel through? Either way doesn't work with the current laws of physics.
Yes well you still broke the law, ethics, and the UN's list of human rights, (The right to Copyright, in specific), so neither of those situations really matter.
Piracy laws differ by country, saying that something is unethical in an ethical debate is equivalent to saying "I'm right and you are wrong because I am right", and the UN's list of human rights doesn't actually say anything about piracy and certain countries in the UN allow it (Canada, Holland, Spain, and Panama).
Theft = Take $26 from Notch's paypal - End result: Notch has $26 less than he had. Money is removed.
Buying = Add $26 to Notch's paypal - End result: Notch has $26 more than he had. Money is added.
Pirating minecraft = Do not take or add any money - End result: Notch doesn't lose or gain any money.
Not buying minecraft or pirating it = Do not take or add any money - End result: Notch doesn't lose or gain any money.
Notice how the last two are the same. THAT is reasoning.
Oh wait, that changes EVERYTHING! Now we must all give you our unquestioning support. ALL HAIL ORREVEN THE GREAT!
This is the Internet. We don't care how old you are. How you behave is how we measure our respect for you. And right now, you are behaving like a child.
Also, your profile says age unknown/birthday unknown. So for all we know you are a child.
This is why other countries hate us. Do you even understand the concept of diplomatic immunity? And the United Nations international covenant on economic, social, and cultural rights doesn't say anything that strictly forbids piracy. It can be assumed that this is correct since Holland is a member of the UN and last time I checked piracy was legal in Holland.
That's like saying 'Piracy is wrong because you are pirating.' You can't even use the word take in this context, as no physical object has been taken. When someone pirates something, a copy of it is being SHARED with others. Didn't your mother teach you the meaning of that word?
EDIT:
I'm not saying that its okay to be a cheap ass when you are perfectly capable of paying and think the game is good. I'm just saying that if it is impossible to pay for it, there is nothing morally wrong about pirating it as long as you pay for it when you can.
Notice, with your reasoning, you left out a part that should be under "Pirating". That part is Minecraft=$26, so when you pirate, you get $26 worth of software, but Mojang doesn't get paid the $26 for the software. THAT, is reasoning.
I mentioned that because, if you read the post I quoted, he said was a child, therefore, that was part of his arguement, therefore, it was liable to counterarguement.
It is a human right to copyright. Holland signed up to the UN, which enforces that human right, but calls it legal in their country, Holland is a contradiction.
As far as your "You can't even use the word take in this context, as no physical object has been taken.", the internet is not physical, therefore, according to your logic, it isn't illegal to take from it for free. Also, your soul isn't physical, so according to your logic, it would be fine to do just anything to it. Also, according to that, since owning anything isn't something physical, I'll just do what Cave Johnson (Portal 2) suggests, and burn your house down with combustible lemons.
Yes, I do know what pirating is. It is illegaly taking a COPY of something. But, a COPY of Minecraft is worth $26. Therefore, since you took that COPY of Minecraft for free, it is as if you took something worth $26 for free. Therefore, Pirate=stealing.
Piracy laws differ by country, saying that something is unethical in an ethical debate is equivalent to saying "I'm right and you are wrong because I am right", and the UN's list of human rights doesn't actually say anything about piracy and certain countries in the UN allow it (Canada, Holland, Spain, and Panama).
Read above post. IK it was after the one I just quoted, but just a referal.
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For backwards time travel to be possible, wouldn't every instant in the universe have to be stored somewhere, or time to be something physical you could travel through? Either way doesn't work with the current laws of physics.
I understand this, but, distributing minecraft is actually illegal. It even says it on the title screen. I understand that some people cant afford the game, but really now. Its just a game. You might as well have stole a single sticky note. You don't NEED, and you chose to download a illegal copy of it. Also, some players don't download it just because they cant afford it. Some people download it just so they don't have to pay. Either way, it's still illegal, so, sorry. I can't really say I agree with this.
Notice, with your reasoning, you left out a part that should be under "Pirating". That part is Minecraft=$26, so when you pirate, you get $26 worth of software, but Mojang doesn't get paid the $26 for the software. THAT, is reasoning.
I mentioned that because, if you read the post I quoted, he said was a child, therefore, that was part of his arguement, therefore, it was liable to counterarguement.
It is a human right to copyright. Holland signed up to the UN, which enforces that human right, but calls it legal in their country, Holland is a contradiction.
As far as your "You can't even use the word take in this context, as no physical object has been taken.", the internet is not physical, therefore, according to your logic, it isn't illegal to take from it for free. Also, your soul isn't physical, so according to your logic, it would be fine to do just anything to it. Also, according to that, since owning anything isn't something physical, I'll just do what Cave Johnson (Portal 2) suggests, and burn your house down with combustible lemons.
Yes, I do know what pirating is. It is illegaly taking a COPY of something. But, a COPY of Minecraft is worth $26. Therefore, since you took that COPY of Minecraft for free, it is as if you took something worth $26 for free. Therefore, Pirate=stealing.
Read above post. IK it was after the one I just quoted, but just a referal.
Under your same logic, Notch should just make one billion copies of minecraft on his home computer. After all, since a COPY of Minecraft is worth $26, those copies of minecraft would be worth BILLIONS of dollars, right?
EDIT: Hmm...
I just made over $1000 by hitting Ctrl+V a bunch of times!
Ahh... the old piracy disscution. My way of doing things is to pirate it, try it, buy it or stop playing it.
Of course there are lots of parents that are like OMGOMGOMGTHEREAREHACKERSANDTHEYWILLIDTHEFTMEZ!!!!!!!
I bought a reloadable visa, whitch counts as a card, but doesn't allow you to go under. And doesn't have all your money on it.
Under your same logic, Notch should just make one billion copies of minecraft on his home computer. After all, since a COPY of Minecraft is worth $26, those copies of minecraft would be worth BILLIONS of dollars, right?
EDIT: Hmm...
I just made over $1000 by hitting Ctrl+V a bunch of times!
Let me rephrase this Each copy is worth $26 per user. If you are not a user, you shouldn't have it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For backwards time travel to be possible, wouldn't every instant in the universe have to be stored somewhere, or time to be something physical you could travel through? Either way doesn't work with the current laws of physics.
Let me rephrase this Each copy is worth $26 per user. If you are not a user, you shouldn't have it.
That logic just eliminates the problem of piracy altogether. If it is worth that much per user (check the definition of user) then not only does Notch get $26 every time someone gets Minecraft through any means, but I have made almost 1 billion dollars!
But seriously, when you buy Minecraft, you buy a premium account. Therefore, it is not the application itself that is worth $26, but the account. And accounts can't be copied.
The word "shouldn't" implies that that last bit is your opinion. It's okay to have an opinion, you can take it to your grave if you want.
That logic just eliminates the problem of piracy altogether. If it is worth that much per user (check the definition of user) then not only does Notch get $26 every time someone gets Minecraft through any means, but I have made almost 1 billion dollars!
But seriously, when you buy Minecraft, you buy a premium account. Therefore, it is not the application itself that is worth $26, but the account. And accounts can't be copied.
The word "shouldn't" implies that that last bit is your opinion. It's okay to have an opinion, you can take it to your grave if you want.
Actuaually, the account gives you the right to download the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For backwards time travel to be possible, wouldn't every instant in the universe have to be stored somewhere, or time to be something physical you could travel through? Either way doesn't work with the current laws of physics.
Actuaually, the account gives you the right to download the game.
This debate is not about the legality of the issue. I'm a bit tired of arguing, so I will go play a game that I legally own and would have never even thought about buying had it not been for piracy! (It's fallout 3, see my post on page 33 for details)
22 million users
5 million game owners
17 million Pirates
If piracy was innocent and mostly a way to generate more game sales through people trying the game then over 70% of players woulden't be playing pirated versions of minecraft. Nearly all of them users have NO intention of paying one single penny towards Mojang for creating minecraft and letting them play it.
The fact is most people suck. Most people would steal or pirate music/games/movies if they are fairly certain they won't ever be caught. They justify it to themseves as they think because they won't be caught that its not really a crime or commiting any wrong doing or harm. They don't give a dam about the game developers that they are stealing sales from. They don't give a dam that they are only making PC gaming WORSE for the rest of us as game companys are reluctent to do PC games due to high rates of piracy.
The fact is every single person who has consistantly pirated movies, games and music has caused all of us internet users harm.
Piracy is the reason we have all the DRM crap us gamers have to deal with now in our games. Piracy is the reason we have online registraction for PC games and installation limits. Piracy is the reason/excuse the goverment uses to police our internet.
Pirates hurts EVERYONE. Keep pretending otherwise but your fooling no one. If you can't afford a game save up and buy it. There is no valid excuse for it. Demos are there for try before you buy.
Murder is wrong because you are unjustly taking the life of another.
Stealing is wrong because you are taking something that is not yours.
Kidnapping is wrong for abducting another without the permission of the abductee.
Piracy is wrong because you are taking a copy of other peoples' work, without properly paying/trading for it.
"One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn't belong"
Now the first 3 things of what you said seem correct in a sense however the 4th thing is differnt from the others.
Your opinion is getting in the way of your post/point.
Now morally right is "when it's an action that somehow supports happiness , well being of heath or minimizes pain or suffering. "
Now morally wrong is "when it's an action that diminishes happiness , well being of health, or causes unnessary harm or suffering"
Now this is how i see it, The action of someone pirating a program is morally right, as this action is one that somehow supports happiness (your own and people you share with)
Now pirating has nothing to do with "diminishing happeniess, well being of health, or causes any unnessary harm or suffering"
So before you try to tell me "piracy is morally wrong" at least know what your talking about (what is morally wrong/right)
22 million users
5 million game owners
17 million Pirates
If piracy was innocent and mostly a way to generate more game sales through people trying the game then over 70% of players woulden't be playing pirated versions of minecraft. Nearly all of them users have NO intention of paying one single penny towards Mojang for creating minecraft and letting them play it.
Fun fact 95% of percentages are complete ******** and false facts pulled out of the person's ass.
Sorry to say but you cant even prove how many pirates are out there or have pirated the game. Dont make up made up percentages
This debate is not about the legality of the issue. I'm a bit tired of arguing, so I will go play a game that I legally own and would have never even thought about buying had it not been for piracy! (It's fallout 3, see my post on page 33 for details)
This debate is about if people who pirate are bad or not. Legality plays a part in that.
"One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn't belong"
Now the first 3 things of what you said seem correct in a sense however the 4th thing is differnt from the others.
Your opinion is getting in the way of your post/point.
Now morally right is "when it's an action that somehow supports happiness , well being of heath or minimizes pain or suffering. "
Now morally wrong is "when it's an action that diminishes happiness , well being of health, or causes unnessary harm or suffering"
Now this is how i see it, The action of someone pirating a program is morally right, as this action is one that somehow supports happiness (your own and people you share with)
Now pirating has nothing to do with "diminishing happeniess, well being of health, or causes any unnessary harm or suffering"
So before you try to tell me "piracy is morally wrong" at least know what your talking about (what is morally wrong/right)
Fun fact 95% of percentages are complete ******** and false facts pulled out of the person's ass.
Sorry to say but you cant even prove how many pirates are out there or have pirated the game. Dont make up made up percentages
Piracy is still wrong because it diminishes the wealth of the creator, which would fall under diminishing happiness, would it not? By that, I mean that the vast majority of pirates have no intentions of ever legally paying for the product they stole. The facts he got were from the counters on Minecraft.net. Go there to see them. I bet the only time you've done that is to make an account to use for offline play.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For backwards time travel to be possible, wouldn't every instant in the universe have to be stored somewhere, or time to be something physical you could travel through? Either way doesn't work with the current laws of physics.
Piracy is still wrong because it diminishes the wealth of the creator, which would fall under diminishing happiness, would it not? By that, I mean that the vast majority of pirates have no intentions of ever legally paying for the product they stole. The facts he got were from the counters on Minecraft.net. Go there to see them. I bet the only time you've done that is to make an account to use for offline play.
No it does not diminish the wealth of the createor, it does not lower the amount of money they have or take anything wrong them. It does not diminish their happniess as he would be unware of how many people pirated the game to start with. Also you have no way to prove what % of pirates "have no intentions of buying the game" and ones who "do have intentions of buying the game"
So yes but what your claiming why its morally wrong, I just disputed all of those claims, so it seems it is not morally right as it does not "diminish happiness, wealth and well being"
Clear enough for you yet?
Oh also these counters you speak of do not count of the amount of players who pirated minecraft, or people who pirate the game not plannign to buyt it or people who pirate it and plan to by it, there is no real way to make a numbered count on that or even a % of it.
22 million users
5 million game owners
17 million Pirates
If piracy was innocent and mostly a way to generate more game sales through people trying the game then over 70% of players woulden't be playing pirated versions of minecraft.
*facepalm* Not every non-premium user is a pirate. People actually use classic still for some reason.
The fact is most people suck. Most people would steal or pirate music/games/movies if they are fairly certain they won't ever be caught. They justify it to themseves as they think because they won't be caught that its not really a crime or commiting any wrong doing or harm.
STEREOTYPING. And other logical fallacies. And the 'S' word.
They don't give a dam about the game developers that they are stealing sales from. They don't give a dam that they are only making PC gaming WORSE for the rest of us as game companys are reluctent to do PC games due to high rates of piracy.
You poor soul. Who's been feeding you that MPAA/RIAA propaganda? And have you even LOOKED at secondhand game sales? The damage that THAT does is more real than piracy since it is a sale that one person profits from, results in no incentive for the buyer to buy a new copy, and causes one hell of a lot more lost sales than piracy. However, with services like Steam, there are no secondhand sales any more in the PC market. Assumptions.
The fact is every single person who has consistantly pirated movies, games and music has caused all of us internet users harm.
Assumptions. Misuse of the word 'fact'. If you were using it properly, we'd know because you'd have evidence to back it up. Since no such evidence exists, moving on...
Piracy is the reason we have all the DRM crap us gamers have to deal with now in our games. Piracy is the reason we have online registraction for PC games and installation limits.
See above. People have DRM for a lot of reasons, most of them good.
Prevent people from giving away copies of things for free all the time (eg. buy skyrim, give a copy to your friends, neighbors, enemies, neighbors' pets, etc.)
Have an answer for investors if they ask what they do to prevent piracy
Prevent SECONDHAND SALES, which makes the PC market more viable.
That's just a few. Some companies put a lot of intrusive DRM. That's what piracy was invented for, and if you lack the balls to do it, then buy the game and download a crack. And there is no excuse to not have internet access. If you have enough money to buy games, obviously you can afford internet access.
Pirates hurts EVERYONE. Keep pretending otherwise but your fooling no one. If you can't afford a game save up and buy it. There is no valid excuse for it. Demos are there for try before you buy.
Did you know that there are a lot of artists who actually don't care about piracy? It isn't always about the money, and to be honest, they don't get a lot of money in the first place since publishers take over 90% of it. People had this same debate when radio was new, although not as prevalent since there was no Internet. Radio was seen as piracy. And it isn't the only thing that has been complained about by the RIAA - they complained about the player piano. I don't think you can go lower than that. If we let the RIAA get their way, we would have a heavily censored Internet, and we'd still be using vinyl records which are hard to manufacture.
TL;DR Nobody's going to take you seriously because most of your argument is pure ********.
Too long to quote without beeing yelled at (Has happened before). It isn not a stereotype that most people who pirate have no intentions of paying at all. Also, the used game market is better than piracy, as they actually got money in the first place, and the secondhand copy isn't a copy like piracy, just to be copied and handed out freely, like to your friends, neighbors, enemies, neighbor's pet, etc. Also, in the PC market, typically, there is self-publishing, so there is no publisher to take 90% of it. Plus, even still, look here. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-01-10-where-does-my-money-go-article. DRM is simply to protect what is rightfully that of the creators, being sold to most, and stolen by few, but sometimes it is the other way around, stolen by many, and bought by few. Also, he is right when he says piracy hurts everyone on the internet. More piracy=more DRM's, in an attempt to stop piracy, more piracy also=more push for laws like PIPA and SOPA.
drhead, Nobody's going to take you seriously because most of your argument is pure ********.
Conker, yes it does diminish the wealth of the game creators. Do you think they make games because they feel like it? No! They want to make money. If too many people pirate games, eventually, game creators will stop making games, thus there will be fewer games.
Clear enough for you yet?
Oh, and IK about the counters. They just show how many accounts there are, and how many have bought the game. Using an estimate for the number of classic players, a guestimate of about 2 mil, using simple first grade subrtaction, we can find that about 15 million have pirated minecraft. In fact, here is their statistics page.
Statistics
23,704,872 registered users, of which 5,193,814 (21.91%) have bought the game.
In the last 24 hours, 63,693 people registered, and 8,500 people bought the game.
Notch himself has said that he'll make this game free some day...I wish it'll come sooner, just so that people stop arguing so much
Yes, he said someday, as in when it is no longer profitable to update the game continuosly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For backwards time travel to be possible, wouldn't every instant in the universe have to be stored somewhere, or time to be something physical you could travel through? Either way doesn't work with the current laws of physics.
Conker, yes it does diminish the wealth of the game creators. Do you think they make games because they feel like it? No! They want to make money. If too many people pirate games, eventually, game creators will stop making games, thus there will be fewer games.
There is no proof of the number of pirates or the number of pirates that effect wither more games will be or not.
You are making **** up....again.
Also it still does not diminish the wealth of the maker of the game as his amount of wealth stays the same amount if someone pirates the game this does not take away his wealth he already has.
Oh, and IK about the counters. They just show how many accounts there are, and how many have bought the game. Using an estimate for the number of classic players, a guestimate of about 2 mil, using simple first grade subrtaction, we can find that about 15 million have pirated minecraft. In fact, here is their statistics page.
Statistics
23,704,872 registered users, of which 5,193,814 (21.91%) have bought the game.
In the last 24 hours, 63,693 people registered, and 8,500 people bought the game.
People register to play the classic verison of minecraft, as said before by that other person as well its not a counter of who has pirated the game. Dont pull made up %'s out your ass. I can make an account on mincraft.net just to play classic minecraft, that does not mean i pirated it just because i do not have the paid account. Heck some users forget there pass and just make mroe free accoutns for classic minecraft. So this doesnt prove anything about pirates.
"that most people who pirate have no intentions of paying at all."
For the 2nd time you can not prove the % of people who pirate the game, people who pirate and dont wish to buy and people who pirate and plan on buying it.
All your arguments so far have been made up %'s and opinions. Now stop making **** up.
I'm not saying that its okay to be a cheap ass when you are perfectly capable of paying and think the game is good. I'm just saying that if it is impossible to pay for it, there is nothing morally wrong about pirating it as long as you pay for it when you can.
Yes well you still broke the law, ethics, and the UN's list of human rights, (The right to Copyright, in specific), so neither of those situations really matter.
Piracy laws differ by country, saying that something is unethical in an ethical debate is equivalent to saying "I'm right and you are wrong because I am right", and the UN's list of human rights doesn't actually say anything about piracy and certain countries in the UN allow it (Canada, Holland, Spain, and Panama).
Notice, with your reasoning, you left out a part that should be under "Pirating". That part is Minecraft=$26, so when you pirate, you get $26 worth of software, but Mojang doesn't get paid the $26 for the software. THAT, is reasoning.
I mentioned that because, if you read the post I quoted, he said was a child, therefore, that was part of his arguement, therefore, it was liable to counterarguement.
It is a human right to copyright. Holland signed up to the UN, which enforces that human right, but calls it legal in their country, Holland is a contradiction.
As far as your "You can't even use the word take in this context, as no physical object has been taken.", the internet is not physical, therefore, according to your logic, it isn't illegal to take from it for free. Also, your soul isn't physical, so according to your logic, it would be fine to do just anything to it. Also, according to that, since owning anything isn't something physical, I'll just do what Cave Johnson (Portal 2) suggests, and burn your house down with combustible lemons.
Yes, I do know what pirating is. It is illegaly taking a COPY of something. But, a COPY of Minecraft is worth $26. Therefore, since you took that COPY of Minecraft for free, it is as if you took something worth $26 for free. Therefore, Pirate=stealing.
Read above post. IK it was after the one I just quoted, but just a referal.
Under your same logic, Notch should just make one billion copies of minecraft on his home computer. After all, since a COPY of Minecraft is worth $26, those copies of minecraft would be worth BILLIONS of dollars, right?
EDIT: Hmm...
I just made over $1000 by hitting Ctrl+V a bunch of times!
Of course there are lots of parents that are like OMGOMGOMGTHEREAREHACKERSANDTHEYWILLIDTHEFTMEZ!!!!!!!
I bought a reloadable visa, whitch counts as a card, but doesn't allow you to go under. And doesn't have all your money on it.
Let me rephrase this Each copy is worth $26 per user. If you are not a user, you shouldn't have it.
That logic just eliminates the problem of piracy altogether. If it is worth that much per user (check the definition of user) then not only does Notch get $26 every time someone gets Minecraft through any means, but I have made almost 1 billion dollars!
But seriously, when you buy Minecraft, you buy a premium account. Therefore, it is not the application itself that is worth $26, but the account. And accounts can't be copied.
The word "shouldn't" implies that that last bit is your opinion. It's okay to have an opinion, you can take it to your grave if you want.
Actuaually, the account gives you the right to download the game.
This debate is not about the legality of the issue. I'm a bit tired of arguing, so I will go play a game that I legally own and would have never even thought about buying had it not been for piracy! (It's fallout 3, see my post on page 33 for details)
5 million game owners
17 million Pirates
If piracy was innocent and mostly a way to generate more game sales through people trying the game then over 70% of players woulden't be playing pirated versions of minecraft. Nearly all of them users have NO intention of paying one single penny towards Mojang for creating minecraft and letting them play it.
The fact is most people suck. Most people would steal or pirate music/games/movies if they are fairly certain they won't ever be caught. They justify it to themseves as they think because they won't be caught that its not really a crime or commiting any wrong doing or harm. They don't give a dam about the game developers that they are stealing sales from. They don't give a dam that they are only making PC gaming WORSE for the rest of us as game companys are reluctent to do PC games due to high rates of piracy.
The fact is every single person who has consistantly pirated movies, games and music has caused all of us internet users harm.
Piracy is the reason we have all the DRM crap us gamers have to deal with now in our games. Piracy is the reason we have online registraction for PC games and installation limits. Piracy is the reason/excuse the goverment uses to police our internet.
Pirates hurts EVERYONE. Keep pretending otherwise but your fooling no one. If you can't afford a game save up and buy it. There is no valid excuse for it. Demos are there for try before you buy.
thanks for pointing out his insults before i did.
"One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn't belong"
Now the first 3 things of what you said seem correct in a sense however the 4th thing is differnt from the others.
Your opinion is getting in the way of your post/point.
Now morally right is "when it's an action that somehow supports happiness , well being of heath or minimizes pain or suffering. "
Now morally wrong is "when it's an action that diminishes happiness , well being of health, or causes unnessary harm or suffering"
Now this is how i see it, The action of someone pirating a program is morally right, as this action is one that somehow supports happiness (your own and people you share with)
Now pirating has nothing to do with "diminishing happeniess, well being of health, or causes any unnessary harm or suffering"
So before you try to tell me "piracy is morally wrong" at least know what your talking about (what is morally wrong/right)
Fun fact 95% of percentages are complete ******** and false facts pulled out of the person's ass.
Sorry to say but you cant even prove how many pirates are out there or have pirated the game. Dont make up made up percentages
This debate is about if people who pirate are bad or not. Legality plays a part in that.
Piracy is still wrong because it diminishes the wealth of the creator, which would fall under diminishing happiness, would it not? By that, I mean that the vast majority of pirates have no intentions of ever legally paying for the product they stole. The facts he got were from the counters on Minecraft.net. Go there to see them. I bet the only time you've done that is to make an account to use for offline play.
No it does not diminish the wealth of the createor, it does not lower the amount of money they have or take anything wrong them. It does not diminish their happniess as he would be unware of how many people pirated the game to start with. Also you have no way to prove what % of pirates "have no intentions of buying the game" and ones who "do have intentions of buying the game"
So yes but what your claiming why its morally wrong, I just disputed all of those claims, so it seems it is not morally right as it does not "diminish happiness, wealth and well being"
Clear enough for you yet?
Oh also these counters you speak of do not count of the amount of players who pirated minecraft, or people who pirate the game not plannign to buyt it or people who pirate it and plan to by it, there is no real way to make a numbered count on that or even a % of it.
*facepalm* Not every non-premium user is a pirate. People actually use classic still for some reason.
STEREOTYPING. Enough said.
STEREOTYPING. And other logical fallacies. And the 'S' word.
You poor soul. Who's been feeding you that MPAA/RIAA propaganda? And have you even LOOKED at secondhand game sales? The damage that THAT does is more real than piracy since it is a sale that one person profits from, results in no incentive for the buyer to buy a new copy, and causes one hell of a lot more lost sales than piracy. However, with services like Steam, there are no secondhand sales any more in the PC market. Assumptions.
Assumptions. Misuse of the word 'fact'. If you were using it properly, we'd know because you'd have evidence to back it up. Since no such evidence exists, moving on...
See above. People have DRM for a lot of reasons, most of them good.
The reason is that they are being bought by the MPAA/RIAA.
Did you know that there are a lot of artists who actually don't care about piracy? It isn't always about the money, and to be honest, they don't get a lot of money in the first place since publishers take over 90% of it. People had this same debate when radio was new, although not as prevalent since there was no Internet. Radio was seen as piracy. And it isn't the only thing that has been complained about by the RIAA - they complained about the player piano. I don't think you can go lower than that. If we let the RIAA get their way, we would have a heavily censored Internet, and we'd still be using vinyl records which are hard to manufacture.
TL;DR Nobody's going to take you seriously because most of your argument is pure ********.
Then things get worse.
Too long to quote without beeing yelled at (Has happened before). It isn not a stereotype that most people who pirate have no intentions of paying at all. Also, the used game market is better than piracy, as they actually got money in the first place, and the secondhand copy isn't a copy like piracy, just to be copied and handed out freely, like to your friends, neighbors, enemies, neighbor's pet, etc. Also, in the PC market, typically, there is self-publishing, so there is no publisher to take 90% of it. Plus, even still, look here. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-01-10-where-does-my-money-go-article. DRM is simply to protect what is rightfully that of the creators, being sold to most, and stolen by few, but sometimes it is the other way around, stolen by many, and bought by few. Also, he is right when he says piracy hurts everyone on the internet. More piracy=more DRM's, in an attempt to stop piracy, more piracy also=more push for laws like PIPA and SOPA.
drhead, Nobody's going to take you seriously because most of your argument is pure ********.
Conker, yes it does diminish the wealth of the game creators. Do you think they make games because they feel like it? No! They want to make money. If too many people pirate games, eventually, game creators will stop making games, thus there will be fewer games.
Clear enough for you yet?
Oh, and IK about the counters. They just show how many accounts there are, and how many have bought the game. Using an estimate for the number of classic players, a guestimate of about 2 mil, using simple first grade subrtaction, we can find that about 15 million have pirated minecraft. In fact, here is their statistics page.
Statistics
23,704,872 registered users, of which 5,193,814 (21.91%) have bought the game.
In the last 24 hours, 63,693 people registered, and 8,500 people bought the game.
Yes, he said someday, as in when it is no longer profitable to update the game continuosly.
There is no proof of the number of pirates or the number of pirates that effect wither more games will be or not.
You are making **** up....again.
Also it still does not diminish the wealth of the maker of the game as his amount of wealth stays the same amount if someone pirates the game this does not take away his wealth he already has.
People register to play the classic verison of minecraft, as said before by that other person as well its not a counter of who has pirated the game. Dont pull made up %'s out your ass. I can make an account on mincraft.net just to play classic minecraft, that does not mean i pirated it just because i do not have the paid account. Heck some users forget there pass and just make mroe free accoutns for classic minecraft. So this doesnt prove anything about pirates.
For the 2nd time you can not prove the % of people who pirate the game, people who pirate and dont wish to buy and people who pirate and plan on buying it.
All your arguments so far have been made up %'s and opinions. Now stop making **** up.