In version 1.6, Notch will be doing away with minecart boosters entirely. Now I'm not against this, as powered boosters have been asked for by many, but the value difference between old and new is beyond what I am able to tolerate.
Before this coming update, a booster of incredible speed could be made with a few tracks and a minecart, equivalent to a half-hour's mining at the most from scratch.
After this coming update, a booster of equivalent power will require six gold bars, which will take two to three hours at minimum to collect! (To those who have had good luck with gold, disregard this point)
I demand an equalizer! Let notch increase the amount of Gold generated so as to balance this dissonance of values between the old and the new!
Also...
Many of you have extensive mining operations, subways, skyways, rollercoasters, fright trains, and myriads of other uses for the minecart booster, but they will soon be forced into obsolescence, for when you next log in after the update, you will find yourself screwed over entirely until you can scratch together full stacks of gold to replace the system you had already painstakingly created!
For all his good intentions, Notch is destroying your work! No other update has done this, and no update should!
mine cart booster were a bug. A BUG. the games in beta. Beta phase is where bugs get smashed therefore the booster will be fixed. your lucky hes even added a booster track hell hes even making it better for babies like you.
Wait, what? Gold is in no way that rare, and until the previous update you only need 4 *ever* to craft anything useful from it.
Second, the game is in beta. . .we go over this every update. During the halloween update when lanterns were going to come in everyone bitched about that too. Your creations are sadly temporary.
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Quote from thrash242 »
And I want a monkey butler. Just because you want something doesn't mean you get it.
mine cart booster were a bug. A BUG. the games in beta. Beta phase is where bugs get smashed therefore the booster will be fixed. your lucky hes even added a booster track hell hes even making it better for babies like you.
The "it was a bug, so it's inherently bad and must be squashed" argument is really asinine. We know it's beta, and we know it was a bug. But from a game design perspective, the glitch boosters were the only thing that actually made minecarts viable. This is why everyone used them.
The powered tracks simply don't work well enough to justify their expense. One can say "well, you'll need to mine more gold", but the problem is with the ratios in which gold and iron are gathered. The amount of gold you need to power the length of track you can build with the amount of iron you'll find while mining that gold is WAY out of proportion.
What this means is that, unless powered tracks get an ENORMOUS upgrade (literally about 8x as much propulsion as they have now) than we may as well just throw out the great majority of iron that we find, because tracks are useless without any means to propel a cart down them.
When you complain about oversights in game design during beta, half the idiots will shout "shut up, it's BETA!". When you complain after release, the other half will shout "You should have complained DURING BETA!". Having 2 resources inextricably linked in usefulness, when one is much more prevalent than the other, with no way to seek out one over the other, is BAD GAME DESIGN, and it's our right and obligation as beta testers to point this out.
Gosh haven't we had enough of these threads, why is it such a big deal for people to accept that they aren't going to get the same power in the powered tracks as they did in boosters.
Gosh haven't we had enough of these threads, why is it such a big deal for people to accept that they aren't going to get the same power in the powered tracks as they did in boosters.
Because some of us like building transit systems that don't go entirely downhill, and the powered tracks simply cannot be crafted in the quantity required to keep up with the tracks we can build with all the iron we collect. If this were an MMO with a vibrant economy, where different materials are used by different people for a wide range of things, this wouldn't be such a problem. People could mine and sell gold, and the price would adjust itself to meet the higher demand.
However, the ONLY useful thing to use massive quantities of iron for are tracks, and tracks do NOTHING without power, and power ONLY comes from gold, and gold cannot be bought or searched for exclusively. Never mind the fact that it really stings to have spent hundreds of hours mining tons of iron, building complex automated stations, laying kilometers of tracks, and now have the majority of them be useless...
Because some of us like building transit systems that don't go entirely downhill, and the powered tracks simply cannot be crafted in the quantity required to keep up with the tracks we can build with all the iron we collect. If this were an MMO with a vibrant economy, where different materials are used by different people for a wide range of things, this wouldn't be such a problem. People could mine and sell gold, and the price would adjust itself to meet the higher demand.
However, the ONLY useful thing to use massive quantities of iron for are tracks, and tracks do NOTHING without power, and power ONLY comes from gold, and gold cannot be bought or searched for exclusively. Never mind the fact that it really stings to have spent hundreds of hours mining tons of iron, building complex automated stations, laying kilometers of tracks, and now have the majority of them be useless...
Tends to happen when you build an empire abusing a bug and the bug is then fixed, empire crumbles.
Let's just say it isn't necessarily something wrong with game balance in that you are used to being able to make massive stations across the planet for a little Iron, then suddenly it is removed. If anything that is just you using the bug as a base of comparison.
Personally, I think rails could use with a boost or atleast giving us more tracks per gold(gold is so much more rare then iron.) I do believe Notch also mentioned that he had boosted the power of rails, so we shall just have to see how much stronger they are.
Chill out, its in Beta. Technically we're not playing the game, we're just testing it. So changes will come and that may drastically affect your world. But move on.
The amount of gold you need to power the length of track you can build with the amount of iron you'll find while mining that gold is WAY out of proportion.
I'll say. I have enough powered track to power a full 1km track, but I only got enough iron to lay about .3km at the same time. Gold is way more plentiful than it needs to be for this.
I'll say. I have enough powered track to power a full 1km track, but I only got enough iron to lay about .3km at the same time. Gold is way more plentiful than it needs to be for this.
How do you use so much iron? Every new world I've started on I personally always end up with like 12x the iron to gold if i get it from spelunking. That's with me using full iron equipment(tools and armor.)
The amount of gold you need to power the length of track you can build with the amount of iron you'll find while mining that gold is WAY out of proportion.
:dry.gif: O RLY?
Quote from Minecraft Wiki »
A single powered rail on flat ground against a stop block gives an occupied cart enough momentum to travel 64 rail tiles on a flat surface.
Quote from Minecraft Wiki »
[Iron] is found in approximately 0.55% of rock below sea level
Quote from Minecraft Wiki »
[Gold] is found in 0.11% of rock
Let's do the math!
If iron is found in 0.55% of rock and gold in 0.11% of rock, then iron is 5 times more common.
If one powered rail is enough to carry you 64 blocks, then you need one powered rail for every 64 normal rails which means you need 64 times the amount of iron.
So if you find 5 times more iron then gold, but need 64 times more iron, then by dividing (64÷5=12.8) we can find that you have around 13 times more gold then you need. That isn't even counting the iron you would need for tools and all the other uses of iron. So I will say this, and be very clear:
mine cart booster were a bug. A BUG. the games in beta. Beta phase is where bugs get smashed therefore the booster will be fixed. your lucky hes even added a booster track hell hes even making it better for babies like you.
From a computer's viewpoint, there is no such thing as a bug. That's because computers are inanimate objects and have no viewpoint. As far as computers are concerned, there is only executable code and unexecutable code. Unless you program directly in machine code (which I have done on more than one occasion) it is extremely unlikely that you will produce unexecutable code.
To say that some piece of code is a bug is to say that, in someone's opinion, the code produces undesirable results. In this case, that someone is Notch, and because it's his program, his opinion overrides everyone else's. There is nothing in code that makes it a bug other than someone's opinion. The fact that it produced unexpected results is irrelevant. I have never heard of code that produced unexpected benevolent results being described as a bug and yanked from a program.
If enough people "whine" and complain about glitch boosters being removed (don't jump to conclusions. I won't be one of them) Notch could possibly reconsider (but I don't think it's likely) and suddenly that bug that HAD to be removed because it was a bug, will miraculously become a non-bug without ever changing its behavior.
What I haven't seen addressed in any of these threads is why Notch considers it a bug. Yes, it was an unintended consequence of some code, but Minecraft is full of examples of that that Notch is perfectly happy with. It's possible that he just wants to correct it because it wasn't what he intended, but I think it's more likely that it stems from his seeming antipathy to high-speed travel, which I assume in turn derives from the fact that it exposes the poor performance of chunk-loading at this (understandably) unoptimized stage of development. Just my guess. I have no evidence to back it up, but it's logical.
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I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to. - J. R. "Bob" Dobbs
If iron is found in 0.55% of rock and gold in 0.11% of rock, then iron is 5 times more common.
If one powered rail is enough to carry you 64 blocks, then you need one powered rail for every 64 normal rails which means you need 64 times the amount of iron.
So if you find 5 times more iron then gold, but need 64 times more iron, then by dividing (64÷5=12.8) we can find that you have around 13 times more gold then you need. That isn't even counting the iron you would need for tools and all the other uses of iron. So I will say this, and be very clear:
MUTE ARGUMENT IS MUTE.
*moot
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Quote from thrash242 »
And I want a monkey butler. Just because you want something doesn't mean you get it.
... derives from the fact that it exposes the poor performance of chunk-loading at this (understandably) unoptimized stage of development. Just my guess. I have no evidence to back it up, but it's logical.
Or it could just be that having two side-by-side carts boosting one another is extremely counter-intuitive and totally breaks mimesis.
If iron is found in 0.55% of rock and gold in 0.11% of rock, then iron is 5 times more common.
If one powered rail is enough to carry you 64 blocks, then you need one powered rail for every 64 normal rails which means you need 64 times the amount of iron.
So if you find 5 times more iron then gold, but need 64 times more iron, then by dividing (64÷5=12.8) we can find that you have around 13 times more gold then you need. That isn't even counting the iron you would need for tools and all the other uses of iron. So I will say this, and be very clear:
MOOT ARGUMENT IS MOOT.
Well your math is a little off.
You get 16 sections of track for the 6 iron and only 6 sections of track for the 6 gold.
So each iron block is worth 2.6666 sections of track
(64/2.6666)/5 = 4.8
So your going to have 5 times more gold then Iron.
If nothing else I still maintain that Notch should somewhat increase generation of gold, preferably by making gold veins larger.
Especially considering that the 1 power track per 64 tracks is cut short by uphill sections.
On another note, I now welcome 1.6 with open arms because Minecraft will not stop crashing every ten minutes.
Whats the use of continent spanning skyways if you can't even use them?
Or it could just be that having two side-by-side carts boosting one another is extremely counter-intuitive and totally breaks mimesis.
Except, as far as I understand, they will still boost each other, just not as much. Shouldn't you be insisting that this non-realistic behavior should be completely removed? And gratz for making me look up a word, but since mimesis means imitation or mimicry, it's slightly out of context. "Suspension of disbelief' might be closer to what you intend, but I understood your point even without looking up mimesis. However, I don't agree with it. Minecraft isn't realistic, and never will be, since that would ruin the game by almost anybody's standards.
Furthermore, using or observing the glitch is completely discretionary. In single-player you only have to refrain from creating glitch boosters and they will never be there to break your mimesis. In multi-player, where you might encounter them, you can only observe the glitch booster effect if you actually ride a boosted minecart. So don't ride them!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to. - J. R. "Bob" Dobbs
Before this coming update, a booster of incredible speed could be made with a few tracks and a minecart, equivalent to a half-hour's mining at the most from scratch.
After this coming update, a booster of equivalent power will require six gold bars, which will take two to three hours at minimum to collect! (To those who have had good luck with gold, disregard this point)
I demand an equalizer! Let notch increase the amount of Gold generated so as to balance this dissonance of values between the old and the new!
Also...
Many of you have extensive mining operations, subways, skyways, rollercoasters, fright trains, and myriads of other uses for the minecart booster, but they will soon be forced into obsolescence, for when you next log in after the update, you will find yourself screwed over entirely until you can scratch together full stacks of gold to replace the system you had already painstakingly created!
For all his good intentions, Notch is destroying your work! No other update has done this, and no update should!
Second, the game is in beta. . .we go over this every update. During the halloween update when lanterns were going to come in everyone bitched about that too. Your creations are sadly temporary.
The "it was a bug, so it's inherently bad and must be squashed" argument is really asinine. We know it's beta, and we know it was a bug. But from a game design perspective, the glitch boosters were the only thing that actually made minecarts viable. This is why everyone used them.
The powered tracks simply don't work well enough to justify their expense. One can say "well, you'll need to mine more gold", but the problem is with the ratios in which gold and iron are gathered. The amount of gold you need to power the length of track you can build with the amount of iron you'll find while mining that gold is WAY out of proportion.
What this means is that, unless powered tracks get an ENORMOUS upgrade (literally about 8x as much propulsion as they have now) than we may as well just throw out the great majority of iron that we find, because tracks are useless without any means to propel a cart down them.
When you complain about oversights in game design during beta, half the idiots will shout "shut up, it's BETA!". When you complain after release, the other half will shout "You should have complained DURING BETA!". Having 2 resources inextricably linked in usefulness, when one is much more prevalent than the other, with no way to seek out one over the other, is BAD GAME DESIGN, and it's our right and obligation as beta testers to point this out.
Because some of us like building transit systems that don't go entirely downhill, and the powered tracks simply cannot be crafted in the quantity required to keep up with the tracks we can build with all the iron we collect. If this were an MMO with a vibrant economy, where different materials are used by different people for a wide range of things, this wouldn't be such a problem. People could mine and sell gold, and the price would adjust itself to meet the higher demand.
However, the ONLY useful thing to use massive quantities of iron for are tracks, and tracks do NOTHING without power, and power ONLY comes from gold, and gold cannot be bought or searched for exclusively. Never mind the fact that it really stings to have spent hundreds of hours mining tons of iron, building complex automated stations, laying kilometers of tracks, and now have the majority of them be useless...
Tends to happen when you build an empire abusing a bug and the bug is then fixed, empire crumbles.
Let's just say it isn't necessarily something wrong with game balance in that you are used to being able to make massive stations across the planet for a little Iron, then suddenly it is removed. If anything that is just you using the bug as a base of comparison.
Personally, I think rails could use with a boost or atleast giving us more tracks per gold(gold is so much more rare then iron.) I do believe Notch also mentioned that he had boosted the power of rails, so we shall just have to see how much stronger they are.
2. Run Minecraft
3. Give powered rails
4. ???
5. Profit!
I'll say. I have enough powered track to power a full 1km track, but I only got enough iron to lay about .3km at the same time. Gold is way more plentiful than it needs to be for this.
How do you use so much iron? Every new world I've started on I personally always end up with like 12x the iron to gold if i get it from spelunking. That's with me using full iron equipment(tools and armor.)
:dry.gif: O RLY?
Let's do the math!
If iron is found in 0.55% of rock and gold in 0.11% of rock, then iron is 5 times more common.
If one powered rail is enough to carry you 64 blocks, then you need one powered rail for every 64 normal rails which means you need 64 times the amount of iron.
So if you find 5 times more iron then gold, but need 64 times more iron, then by dividing (64÷5=12.8) we can find that you have around 13 times more gold then you need. That isn't even counting the iron you would need for tools and all the other uses of iron. So I will say this, and be very clear:
MOOT ARGUMENT IS MOOT.
From a computer's viewpoint, there is no such thing as a bug. That's because computers are inanimate objects and have no viewpoint. As far as computers are concerned, there is only executable code and unexecutable code. Unless you program directly in machine code (which I have done on more than one occasion) it is extremely unlikely that you will produce unexecutable code.
To say that some piece of code is a bug is to say that, in someone's opinion, the code produces undesirable results. In this case, that someone is Notch, and because it's his program, his opinion overrides everyone else's. There is nothing in code that makes it a bug other than someone's opinion. The fact that it produced unexpected results is irrelevant. I have never heard of code that produced unexpected benevolent results being described as a bug and yanked from a program.
If enough people "whine" and complain about glitch boosters being removed (don't jump to conclusions. I won't be one of them) Notch could possibly reconsider (but I don't think it's likely) and suddenly that bug that HAD to be removed because it was a bug, will miraculously become a non-bug without ever changing its behavior.
What I haven't seen addressed in any of these threads is why Notch considers it a bug. Yes, it was an unintended consequence of some code, but Minecraft is full of examples of that that Notch is perfectly happy with. It's possible that he just wants to correct it because it wasn't what he intended, but I think it's more likely that it stems from his seeming antipathy to high-speed travel, which I assume in turn derives from the fact that it exposes the poor performance of chunk-loading at this (understandably) unoptimized stage of development. Just my guess. I have no evidence to back it up, but it's logical.
*moot
lol, didn't notice that as I was emotionaly writing my argument. Will edit.
Or it could just be that having two side-by-side carts boosting one another is extremely counter-intuitive and totally breaks mimesis.
Well your math is a little off.
You get 16 sections of track for the 6 iron and only 6 sections of track for the 6 gold.
So each iron block is worth 2.6666 sections of track
(64/2.6666)/5 = 4.8
So your going to have 5 times more gold then Iron.
Especially considering that the 1 power track per 64 tracks is cut short by uphill sections.
On another note, I now welcome 1.6 with open arms because Minecraft will not stop crashing every ten minutes.
Whats the use of continent spanning skyways if you can't even use them?
Except, as far as I understand, they will still boost each other, just not as much. Shouldn't you be insisting that this non-realistic behavior should be completely removed? And gratz for making me look up a word, but since mimesis means imitation or mimicry, it's slightly out of context. "Suspension of disbelief' might be closer to what you intend, but I understood your point even without looking up mimesis. However, I don't agree with it. Minecraft isn't realistic, and never will be, since that would ruin the game by almost anybody's standards.
Furthermore, using or observing the glitch is completely discretionary. In single-player you only have to refrain from creating glitch boosters and they will never be there to break your mimesis. In multi-player, where you might encounter them, you can only observe the glitch booster effect if you actually ride a boosted minecart. So don't ride them!