they exist only there, it would have been easier to code them to spawn everywhere, that is proof enough.
Basically, your argument is that because they are in Fortresses, they should never leave them, because the developers wanted them there? That seems both tautological and obtuse. Sure, it would have been easier to code it so they weren't in fortresses, but not by much. I'm not arguing that it wasn't an intentional choice by the developers to place them in Fortesses. What I am arguing is that Wither Skeletons would be better outside of Fortresses.
i say they are the owners because they are tall and menacing, and the only mobs there that look like they have any intelligence, blazes always seemed like robots because of their sounds.
How interesting. I've already addressed, I think, why personal lore is rather irrelevant to gameplay mechanics. It's an RP/GP conundrum - you could literally take any any idea on this board and destroy it because it doesn't match your personal lore. Let's look at the top one right now - Muffle enchantment. My lore (hypothetically speaking) says that monsters don't see you through sound, but through sight. Therefore, it would be ruined by adding that enchantment. I could go on with other ideas, but you get the point. Lore isn't a valid reason to ditch an idea because every single idea can be ditched by it - the developers could never add anything to the game. There's always going to be a few players saying that their lore has been ruined by the change. So sorry if a few robot sounds and an illusion of a skeleton being intelligent makes you think skeletons must always stay in Fortresses, but that's not a valid reason.
no, but on the basis that it doesn't solve all the problems, and makes them seem less special and more like just another mob, it's nice having them in fortresses because they seem more powerful and grand that way, making my own game, i appreciate lore and things like that specialness of being in certain places very much.
See, now you're actually addressing the idea by bringing up ideas against it. It "makes them seem less special". That's interesting. There are only a rare few mobs that are limited by area - silverfish, blaze, enderdragon, and Wither Skeleton. One of them is already in Nether Fortresses. Sure, it might make Wither Skeletons less rare (that's kind of the point), but less special? Creepers are the hallmark of Minecraft, and they spawn literally everywhere in the overworld. That's special enough for me.
It not solving all the problems is not a problem with my idea, and it's a rather blatant fallacy that you think it does. Again, it's like not buying scissors because you need something that staples and cuts. Buy the frickin scissors, then go find a stapler. In this idea, it makes no sense not to solve all of the problems that exist that I detailed in the OP, then go find some staplers in the form of other new mobs.
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After trying to go trough all the thread to answer bit by bit i prefer to make it simple. Nether fortresses are the ultimate discovery for the adventurers. As we know inside we can get blazes, magma cubes (im sure i saw them spawn outside of fortresses sone but i'm not sure), pigmen which really don't hurt you if you don't hit them, and this happens to me mostly by accident but very rarely and then we have the wither skellies and the chance to get normal skellies. The main challenges of exploring a fortress is to face the specific mobs of that specific area (the fortresses), it makes a contrast from being in the nether and then going into a nether fortress
I believe they should work more on zombie pigmen instead and keep the skelletons as they are, a specific mob for that area, maybe they should work on another pigmen type or change their behavior and maybe add a new mob for the "outside nether". For me the wither skelleton head drop is fine, yes its a boss (and yes i read the FAQ so dont bother to put me to read it again) and also its not only a boss, its what the boss drops to make a block which benefits are ok for the "rareness" of the drop.
See, now you're actually addressing the idea by bringing up ideas against it. It "makes them seem less special". That's interesting. There are only a rare few mobs that are limited by area - silverfish, blaze, enderdragon, and Wither Skeleton. One of them is already in Nether Fortresses. Sure, it might make Wither Skeletons less rare (that's kind of the point), but less special? Creepers are the hallmark of Minecraft, and they spawn literally everywhere in the overworld. That's special enough for me.
The creepers have a WHOLE lot more story in minecraft than any other mobs. Main thing is that creepers is a mob that is UNIQUE, and first and "only" appearance was in minecraft. Zombie, skeletons and spiders are recurrent mobs in many other games that for me becomes something typical and sometimes even overused.
It not solving all the problems is not a problem with my idea, and it's a rather blatant fallacy that you think it does. Again, it's like not buying scissors because you need something that staples and cuts. Buy the frickin scissors, then go find a stapler. In this idea, it makes no sense not to solve all of the problems that exist that I detailed in the OP, then go find some staplers in the form of other new mobs.
Imagine your an engineer client wants you to build a bridge to cross a river. You go to the site where he wants his bridge and you realize that the problem its not building a bridge, the real problem is crossing the river. You realize that the bridge is one of the many solutions to a problem, you could build a tunnel bellow the river or on the river bottom to cross it, you could use a big boat etc etc. But the stubborn client wants a bridge and anything else. This scenario happens to me a lot, they want a logo, they want a website, or a presentation card but what they need is more than that but still sometimes you gotta shut up and do the things for him. I have this feeling on this thread, you want wither skeletons to be out spread in the nether, but the problem is to make the nether more difficult.
Well, I think we've reached an impasse. As long as I have to keep rebutting was is essentially your own entirely subjective and personal opinions, and that is the foundation of your arguments, this is never going to go anywhere. I'm sorry that you don't agree with my suggestion.
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Imagine you're an engineer client wants you to build a bridge to cross a river. You go to the site where he wants his bridge and you realize that the problem its not building a bridge, the real problem is crossing the river. You realize that the bridge is one of the many solutions to a problem, you could build a tunnel bellow the river or on the river bottom to cross it, you could use a big boat etc etc. But the stubborn client wants a bridge and anything else. This scenario happens to me a lot, they want a logo, they want a website, or a presentation card but what they need is more than that but still sometimes you gotta shut up and do the things for him. I have this feeling on this thread, you want wither skeletons to be out spread in the nether, but the problem is to make the nether more difficult.
The problem is making the nether more difficult, making the Wither less boring to summon, and getting more variety into the Nether. Threefold. If you have a solution that fixes all three at once with seconds of work for the developers, I'm open to hearing it, but simply adding more mobs to the Nether is only 1/3.
While adding more mobs to the Nether is a good idea, as I've stated before, moving Wither Skeletons out is a start towards fixing the problems that adding more mobs would help as well. It's not a total fix, but it solves many other problems as well, for less time and effort. The problem is a lot more complex than crossing a river - this river is an entire dimension.
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sorry, accidental post, i was getting a quote for another thread and clicked on post by mistake, moderators are free to delete this.
On that note, I'd rather you not quote me out of context in an entirely unrelated debate. The segment you quoted was for the purpose of debate - of course atmosphere an immersion play a huge role in the game, but not so much that potential changes should be thrown out the window just because a certain subsection of the community views them a certain way. Wither Skeletons work in the Nether atmospherically because they are black skeletons, demonic creatures that belong in Hell. But that description is apt for both Fortresses and the rest of the Nether. No part about their structure, design, or behavior suggests that they are the rulers of Nether Fortresses, or anything of the sort. You bring up Yetis belonging in the arctic. Of course! But what part of Wither Skeletons suggests that they belong in Nether Fortresses? Any argument about them being previously sentient inhabitants could be just as easily applied to zombie pigmen - actually better, because the pigmen have group mechanics. But I've yet to see someone ranting about how their personal lore of Minecraft means pigmen need to be put in fortresses.
I LOVE this idea. Message to the critics: It won't make Minecraft any easier, it would in fact make it HARDER. Because you have an actually hostile mob spawning! You would also still need to find nether fortresses, because Blazes and nether wart are there, and you need them for potions, etc.
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I Hope That This Does Eventually Get Added, Cause I've Almost Always Been On The Unlucky End... Even After Spawning 9 Stacks Of Skeleton Eggs, I Only Got 2 Heads, It Took A Whole 38 More To Get The Last. So When I Play Legitly, I'll Go Running Around A Nether Fortress For About 3 Hours And MAYBE Come Out With A Wither Skeleton Skull... In Any Case, You Have My Full Support~
I Hope That This Does Eventually Get Added, Cause I've Almost Always Been On The Unlucky End... Even After Spawning 9 Stacks Of Skeleton Eggs, I Only Got 2 Heads, It Took A Whole 38 More To Get The Last. So When I Play Legitly, I'll Go Running Around A Nether Fortress For About 3 Hours And MAYBE Come Out With A Wither Skeleton Skull... In Any Case, You Have My Full Support~
So many unnecessary capitol letters… My eyes. MY EYES! *Eye explosion sound*
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Your brain is so powerful, it would take a state of the art computer the size of a factory to come even close to matching the processing power.
Seems like a good idea. I do think you've forgotten about the threat of fire when fighting ghasts when appraising the difficulty of fighting them though.
Oh, and if no one's posted about this yet, I looked at the code you used and it would work, if anyone doubted it. Could've used a check to make sure you didn't try to run it more than 999 times or less than 1 time, but obviously you were the only intended user and you'd know not to do that anyway.
By the way, the reason you couldn't go past 999 trials is that's the maximum amount of numbers a list can hold. If you'd wanted to, you could have broken the limit with a matrix (for a limit of 9801, assuming you had the memory for it) or a second list (using dim() to check when to switch to it).
Probably could have done without all the times you said the reader probably didn't understand what you just said though.
In a game, if there is to be COMBAT GRINDING, then making that grinding in only one place becomes BORING gridning. Currently, you find a fortress, and by the time you've grinded through the wither skeletons for your 3 heads, you now know every single nether bricks block of that fortress by name on an intimate level. That is way too much time spend in only a single spot. Sure, you can always say "well, I'm bored so I can always go kill wither skeletons elsehwere in order to get a change of scenery", but traveling from one fortress to another takes wquite a long time. End result: you feel like you are losing your time.
Meanwhile, if the grinding is done as part of something else, say: exploring the nether to traveling to new areas, then it almost stops feeling like grinding and becomes the thrill of adventure. Yougrind, yes, but you are able to constantly change to new scenery.
Basically, your argument is that because they are in Fortresses, they should never leave them, because the developers wanted them there? That seems both tautological and obtuse. Sure, it would have been easier to code it so they weren't in fortresses, but not by much. I'm not arguing that it wasn't an intentional choice by the developers to place them in Fortesses. What I am arguing is that Wither Skeletons would be better outside of Fortresses.
How interesting. I've already addressed, I think, why personal lore is rather irrelevant to gameplay mechanics. It's an RP/GP conundrum - you could literally take any any idea on this board and destroy it because it doesn't match your personal lore. Let's look at the top one right now - Muffle enchantment. My lore (hypothetically speaking) says that monsters don't see you through sound, but through sight. Therefore, it would be ruined by adding that enchantment. I could go on with other ideas, but you get the point. Lore isn't a valid reason to ditch an idea because every single idea can be ditched by it - the developers could never add anything to the game. There's always going to be a few players saying that their lore has been ruined by the change. So sorry if a few robot sounds and an illusion of a skeleton being intelligent makes you think skeletons must always stay in Fortresses, but that's not a valid reason.
See, now you're actually addressing the idea by bringing up ideas against it. It "makes them seem less special". That's interesting. There are only a rare few mobs that are limited by area - silverfish, blaze, enderdragon, and Wither Skeleton. One of them is already in Nether Fortresses. Sure, it might make Wither Skeletons less rare (that's kind of the point), but less special? Creepers are the hallmark of Minecraft, and they spawn literally everywhere in the overworld. That's special enough for me.
It not solving all the problems is not a problem with my idea, and it's a rather blatant fallacy that you think it does. Again, it's like not buying scissors because you need something that staples and cuts. Buy the frickin scissors, then go find a stapler. In this idea, it makes no sense not to solve all of the problems that exist that I detailed in the OP, then go find some staplers in the form of other new mobs.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!
I believe they should work more on zombie pigmen instead and keep the skelletons as they are, a specific mob for that area, maybe they should work on another pigmen type or change their behavior and maybe add a new mob for the "outside nether". For me the wither skelleton head drop is fine, yes its a boss (and yes i read the FAQ so dont bother to put me to read it again) and also its not only a boss, its what the boss drops to make a block which benefits are ok for the "rareness" of the drop.
The creepers have a WHOLE lot more story in minecraft than any other mobs. Main thing is that creepers is a mob that is UNIQUE, and first and "only" appearance was in minecraft. Zombie, skeletons and spiders are recurrent mobs in many other games that for me becomes something typical and sometimes even overused.
Imagine your an engineer client wants you to build a bridge to cross a river. You go to the site where he wants his bridge and you realize that the problem its not building a bridge, the real problem is crossing the river. You realize that the bridge is one of the many solutions to a problem, you could build a tunnel bellow the river or on the river bottom to cross it, you could use a big boat etc etc. But the stubborn client wants a bridge and anything else. This scenario happens to me a lot, they want a logo, they want a website, or a presentation card but what they need is more than that but still sometimes you gotta shut up and do the things for him. I have this feeling on this thread, you want wither skeletons to be out spread in the nether, but the problem is to make the nether more difficult.
Well, I think we've reached an impasse. As long as I have to keep rebutting was is essentially your own entirely subjective and personal opinions, and that is the foundation of your arguments, this is never going to go anywhere. I'm sorry that you don't agree with my suggestion.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!
The problem is making the nether more difficult, making the Wither less boring to summon, and getting more variety into the Nether. Threefold. If you have a solution that fixes all three at once with seconds of work for the developers, I'm open to hearing it, but simply adding more mobs to the Nether is only 1/3.
While adding more mobs to the Nether is a good idea, as I've stated before, moving Wither Skeletons out is a start towards fixing the problems that adding more mobs would help as well. It's not a total fix, but it solves many other problems as well, for less time and effort. The problem is a lot more complex than crossing a river - this river is an entire dimension.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!
(EDIT: I posted a little later, I don't think what I said above is true)
Support! 1+
On that note, I'd rather you not quote me out of context in an entirely unrelated debate. The segment you quoted was for the purpose of debate - of course atmosphere an immersion play a huge role in the game, but not so much that potential changes should be thrown out the window just because a certain subsection of the community views them a certain way. Wither Skeletons work in the Nether atmospherically because they are black skeletons, demonic creatures that belong in Hell. But that description is apt for both Fortresses and the rest of the Nether. No part about their structure, design, or behavior suggests that they are the rulers of Nether Fortresses, or anything of the sort. You bring up Yetis belonging in the arctic. Of course! But what part of Wither Skeletons suggests that they belong in Nether Fortresses? Any argument about them being previously sentient inhabitants could be just as easily applied to zombie pigmen - actually better, because the pigmen have group mechanics. But I've yet to see someone ranting about how their personal lore of Minecraft means pigmen need to be put in fortresses.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!
Thanks! I'll probably become a bit more active in reaching out to the devs when this reaches 500 supporters, through twitter and Reddit.
EDIT: On that note, we're only 11 away from 500 supporters! Thanks to everyone who has supported this idea so far.
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Support.
So many unnecessary capitol letters… My eyes. MY EYES! *Eye explosion sound*
That's what I'm looking for in Minecraft.
Ideas and the Fulfillment of them.
Variety of Items.
Variety of Challenges.
This, is what makes Minecraft, The best game out there.
Critiquing is easy. Creating is difficult.
Oh, and if no one's posted about this yet, I looked at the code you used and it would work, if anyone doubted it. Could've used a check to make sure you didn't try to run it more than 999 times or less than 1 time, but obviously you were the only intended user and you'd know not to do that anyway.
By the way, the reason you couldn't go past 999 trials is that's the maximum amount of numbers a list can hold. If you'd wanted to, you could have broken the limit with a matrix (for a limit of 9801, assuming you had the memory for it) or a second list (using dim() to check when to switch to it).
Probably could have done without all the times you said the reader probably didn't understand what you just said though.
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Support, mainly one BIG reason:
In a game, if there is to be COMBAT GRINDING, then making that grinding in only one place becomes BORING gridning. Currently, you find a fortress, and by the time you've grinded through the wither skeletons for your 3 heads, you now know every single nether bricks block of that fortress by name on an intimate level. That is way too much time spend in only a single spot. Sure, you can always say "well, I'm bored so I can always go kill wither skeletons elsehwere in order to get a change of scenery", but traveling from one fortress to another takes wquite a long time. End result: you feel like you are losing your time.
Meanwhile, if the grinding is done as part of something else, say: exploring the nether to traveling to new areas, then it almost stops feeling like grinding and becomes the thrill of adventure. Yougrind, yes, but you are able to constantly change to new scenery.
And that makes a huge difference !