I just think minecraft is a sandbox with RPG elements.
I think the sandbox part should be improved more than the RPG part, but I don't think the RPG improvements should be ignored.
This is a nice suggestion. But the speed reduction is harsh, it makes leather armor much better than iron.
And the only extra weapons I would like to see are:
> Halberd: Slower, but has longer reach and more attack.
> Dagger: Fast, but deals small damage and has small reach. Can sneak attack.
> Crossbow: Shoots faster than the bow and has bigger range, but has lower damage and smaller enchantabitity.I just think minecraft is a sandbox with RPG elements.
I think the sandbox part should be improved more than the RPG part, but I don't think the RPG improvements should be ignored.
This is a nice suggestion. But the speed reduction is harsh, it makes leather armor much better than iron.
And the only extra weapons I would like to see are:
> Halberd: Slower, but has longer reach and more attack.
> Dagger: Fast, but deals small damage and has small reach. Can sneak attack.
> Crossbow: Shoots faster than the bow and has bigger range, but has lower damage and smaller enchantabitity.
I just think minecraft is a sandbox with RPG elements.
I think the sandbox part should be improved more than the RPG part, but I don't think the RPG improvements should be ignored.
This is a nice suggestion. But the speed reduction is harsh, it makes leather armor much better than iron.
And the only extra weapons I would like to see are:
> Halberd: Slower, but has longer reach and more attack.
> Dagger: Fast, but deals small damage and has small reach. Can sneak attack.
> Crossbow: Shoots faster than the bow and has bigger range, but has lower damage and smaller enchantabitity.
Actually, they are actually about even. Bolts are heavier but there is more force cranked in the xbow. Basically the only difference is that the xbow can be shot immediately before the longer reload.
For game purposes, the xbow would just be more powerful, shoot the same distance, but longer reload.
In response to your view on this cecilhowe, You said you like minecraft's combat the way it is, simple. The truth about what i'm suggesting here is that it still keeps minecraft combat simple, you only have to look at the technical side of it if you want too.
That isn't true at all. The moment I have to decide which armor would be best for mining, just in case I have to run, instead of just putting on some armor is the moment that minecraft's combat related mechanics became more than I care to learn about. Minecraft is creative and cathartic to me, not a number-running joint. The simplicity of it all probably has a great deal to do with why nearly 5 million people bought this game instead of playing dungeons and dragons.
All of you are wrong, minecraft is a SANDBOX SURVIVAL GAME
trolololo~
In all seriousness, Here is my suggestion to this idea:
Light armor shouldn't slow you down, in my opinion. Light weapons could still slow you down, but light armor shouldn't. Going armorless should be a stupid idea no matter what if you ask me.
Also, how should bows fit into this? Are they a light, medium, or heavy weapon? Perhaps arrows should slow you down by a small amount for each one you have, encouraging players to be accurate if they are on the move, but still allows arrow spam if they are in a stationary position.
I think people would complain too much if armor made them slower. It could work and I still wouldn't mind it.
I don't agree with swords making you slower. You should remove the sword weight from this equation, because it doesn't make sense that you would slow with it held, but can not slow when it's in your inventory. Armor is a little more believable, but weapons aren't equipped items.
Swing rates are sufficient enough. OP, I don't really think the whole system needs to be adjusted with checks and balances, because the weapons alone would provide a sufficient removal of some of the meta issues you mentioned. The reason being that each weapon would be advantageous over another weapon in the same tier. I would be happy to know that I can gain an advantage over someone's diamond weapon if I use the proper tier type.
Edit: Sting, Survival is a RPG element. You're saying it's a sandbox RPG. RPG in that statement is the dominant attribute.
EDIT: MODERATORS DON'T MOVE THIS TO SUGGESTIONS. IT WILL DIE A MOST PAINFUL DEATH THERE.
Honestly, the best way to solve the combat issue is to make a new tier of armor/weapon that is just under diamond. That way a group of players can take down someone with diamond, and fighting will focus more on teamwork than being a juggernaut. Also, bows should be split up more. It should be split up into longbows and shortbows. Short bows would fire faster, weaker, arrows, while longbows would fire, slower, stronger arrows at a longer range.
I think people would complain too much if armor made them slower. It could work and I still wouldn't mind it.
I don't agree with swords making you slower. You should remove the sword weight from this equation, because it doesn't make sense that you would slow with it held, but can not slow when it's in your inventory. Armor is a little more believable, but weapons aren't equipped items.
Swing rates are sufficient enough. OP, I don't really think the whole system needs to be adjusted with checks and balances, because the weapons alone would provide a sufficient removal of some of the meta issues you mentioned. The reason being that each weapon would be advantageous over another weapon in the same tier. I would be happy to know that I can gain an advantage over someone's diamond weapon if I use the proper tier type.
Edit: Sting, Survival is a RPG element. You're saying it's a sandbox RPG. RPG in that statement is the dominant attribute.
EDIT: MODERATORS DON'T MOVE THIS TO SUGGESTIONS. IT WILL DIE A MOST PAINFUL DEATH THERE.
I agree with you bro.
But if you don't mind me to explain, the reason I added weight on to the weapons is because mainly of a PvP aspect, and I added the whole weight aspect in because there have been SO many times when I've joined a popular multiplayer server, and I'll just get ganked by someone in full diamond. I mostly see it as a way to try and prevent something like that from happening to newcomers, and still finding a way to balance in when a player is in a situation where they need to fight someone else in PvP and attempt to find a way to even the odds, or just make things more interesting.
Actually, I like this idea, but I think the speed reduction should be made secondary (like 85% full heavy armor) and instead have more impact on the hunger bar: a litlle when normally moving, but a lot when sprinting(with sprinting speed reduced) or jumping or swinging, so heavy player would need more food on their hotbar and they would slow down when eating, that, if the player is careless, can be deadly even if you have full diamond and the enemy only a stone dagger.
EDIT: In this way, you can go mining and wear heavy armor without have to worry to be slow as a turtle. Your problem would arise when sprinting away from a creeper, but with heavy weapon, you should be able to deal with it quickly, while with light armor the style would be more "hit and run"
@Homem Pigman As you have said, Minecraft is a sandbox, so if some people want a "sandbox" better combact, they should have it. It's nowhere written that minecraft is a sanbox building game rather than sanbox adventure game.
--That's a good point, energy consumption would probably be a better idea. Besides, by the time you get diamond, you usually have a set food supply. I'm not saying it wouldn't make the energy drop in combat useless, but that it works with tiers. Someone in diamond still wouldn't want to waste time eating, so they would move less.
Maybe different weapon types would be an excuse to add more mob types too?
Interesting ideas, but getting a little bit too complex I think.
Swords do one kind of damage, arrows do a different kind. We need more types of arrows, for example iron and diamond tipped ones which partially or completely ignore the armor.
Blunt force damage would be nice as well, for example a club, mace, or hammer... make them strike more slowly and have leather armor be a better defense against that type of damage.
Adding an encumbrance system is a nice idea, but almost always runs into problems when you actually attempt it. Which is why most games which try to use one quickly patch it out of existence. I'd rather just see more variety in the weapons and armor types, so that there's always a counter for what you're using/wearing.
As much as I hate to say it, Minecraft's pvp could use a little improvement, if only to satisfy the masses of pvp players. Getting into arguments over whether it's primarily an RPG or a sandbox is kind of a moot point, as it is more or less both, and depending on how you play the game you probably experience more of the RPG or sandbox feel, which is then of course reflected in your opinions of what it is.
What strikes me as odd is this idea that if you improve one aspect you can no longer improve another as much. As Minecraft's combat does not take place in a vacuum, but instead in a world made of blocks you can manipulate, it is inherently tied to the sandbox functionality of the game. Likewise, when you build anything outside of peaceful mode, there is inherently a combat aspect in defending that structure, even if only the act of placing torches to prevent monster spawns. So sure, improve the combat, give sandbox some new toys, and everyone's happy... I don't see how this is such an issue.
That being said, there's more to combat than just simple "full diamond lololol". There are potions and enchantments as of 1.8, and there's always the bow which is arguably better than a diamond sword if you're good at kiting. If you're clever you can devise far more interesting ways of taking your opponent down then smacking them on the head with a diamond sword. I get that you're trying to make combat more interesting, but the picture you paint of it as it is isn't quite accurate.
75% of minecraft servers i find are PVP, so yeah this would be really nice, heavier armors should affect your sprinting/swimming/jumping. All PVP is now is just having a full set of diamond and sprinting/flailing your arms everywhere like a madman. I support.
ALSO
Gold armor should protect the most, be the second lightest to leather, but be the weakest.
In response to your view on this cecilhowe, You said you like minecraft's combat the way it is, simple. The truth about what i'm suggesting here is that it still keeps minecraft combat simple, you only have to look at the technical side of it if you want too. Its visual enough to other players to realize that a smaller weapon will more then likely be faster, and a bigger weapon will be slower. Another way to do armor very effectively would be to make Light armor a lighter tint, and heavy armor a darker tint. Its more common sense then intricate mathematics. You'll still be running up and hitting people with a sword, it just adds a few more variables that can be easily identified by other players. This isn't intended to make the game more realistic, its to give the combat more depth, rather they try to make it harder to understand. Easy to Learn, Hard to Master.
As well to everyone else, the reason I suggest the movement speed reduction is because having someone run around in full heavy armor would result in them being over powered so there has to be some kind of negative value. As I stated previously, to prevent someone in full heavy armor from griefing everyone in the spawn zone of a server.
In any case, it might make more sense to more the reductions down to something along these lines;
Player Movement
Nothing at 100% movement speed
Light Armor at 90% movement speed
Medium Armor at 80% movement speed
Heavy Armor at 70% movement speed
EDIT; And I know minecraft really isn't about combat, but the one thing that primary annoys me when I come back to play it now that Jeb is working and updating it more often, is the lack of some kind of remotely interesting combat.
I don't think we need to add the different classes of armor. We can just keep what we have! Leather (light), Iron (medium), Diamond (heavy). And in my opinion light armor shouldn't encumber you at all. I would have it like this:
Leather at 100%
Iron at 85%
Diamond at 70%
But the diamond still needs to be weakened a bit, or iron strengthened. And I 100% agree with your weapons, that would be badass! I used to use Cloud's buster sword from FF7 as my diamond sword, feels so epic. Not to mention it would make combat in the beginning a bit easier and cheaper, and for those who focus more on mining and building, it's 1 less iron (or stone, iron, or diamond)!
One thing I've always thought they should've added was to add shields also.
EDIT: @supa1337killa I forgot about gold. In my opinion diamond should protect more than gold. In protectivenss it would be Leather<Iron<Gold<Diamond. But in weight Leather<Gold<Iron<Diamond. Btw the different sized weapons should cause slower movement speed also, maybe sword -5% and greatsword -10% movement speed as well as having to wait a bit longer in between attacks.
I was thinking that, instead of set values of loss depending on what you have equipped in what slot, there could be a loss of movement speed depending on how high your defense rating (the shields on the player HUD) is. Full Diamond is the slowest, Full Iron is average, and Full Leather is speedy. -2% Speed per point seems fair (can be different percentage if needed):
Full Leather: 7 Points (28% damage reduction) (-14% speed)
Full Gold: 11 Points (44% damage reduction) (-22% speed)
Full Chainmail: 12 (48% damage reduction) (-24% speed)
Full Iron: 15 (60% damage reduction) (-30% speed)
Full Diamond: 20 (80% damage reduction) (-40% speed)
This also allows for players to mix and match with varying speed losses. Enchants for a reduced speed loss could also be added for the lucky.
[Edit: Some individual armor values, subject to abbreviation]
I also agree that new weapons need to be implemented. Not sure how they would code shorter delays before firing but it could be possible, and would make Greatswords and Daggers fully possible.
And if you really want to improve combat... allow us to sprint with buttons besides W. Side sprinting and back sprinting would be helpful in PvP and PvE, and even in non-combat.
This would be great. Finally someone got into words what needs to be changed in combat! As to the complaints 'No this would make it an rpg' or 'It'd be to complicated':
These changes wouldn't make you crunch numbers, it's based off of common sense.If you wear heavy armor you can't run as fast, but can take more damage. If you use a heavy weapon you hit slower, but you hit with more damage. I really hope something like this gets implemented.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will.
I think the sandbox part should be improved more than the RPG part, but I don't think the RPG improvements should be ignored.
This is a nice suggestion. But the speed reduction is harsh, it makes leather armor much better than iron.
And the only extra weapons I would like to see are:
> Halberd: Slower, but has longer reach and more attack.
> Dagger: Fast, but deals small damage and has small reach. Can sneak attack.
> Crossbow: Shoots faster than the bow and has bigger range, but has lower damage and smaller enchantabitity.I just think minecraft is a sandbox with RPG elements.
I think the sandbox part should be improved more than the RPG part, but I don't think the RPG improvements should be ignored.
This is a nice suggestion. But the speed reduction is harsh, it makes leather armor much better than iron.
And the only extra weapons I would like to see are:
> Halberd: Slower, but has longer reach and more attack.
> Dagger: Fast, but deals small damage and has small reach. Can sneak attack.
> Crossbow: Shoots faster than the bow and has bigger range, but has lower damage and smaller enchantabitity.
For game purposes, the xbow would just be more powerful, shoot the same distance, but longer reload.
Slow armor frustrating you? Enchant it with Speed I to go faster. Or something like that.
That isn't true at all. The moment I have to decide which armor would be best for mining, just in case I have to run, instead of just putting on some armor is the moment that minecraft's combat related mechanics became more than I care to learn about. Minecraft is creative and cathartic to me, not a number-running joint. The simplicity of it all probably has a great deal to do with why nearly 5 million people bought this game instead of playing dungeons and dragons.
trolololo~
In all seriousness, Here is my suggestion to this idea:
Light armor shouldn't slow you down, in my opinion. Light weapons could still slow you down, but light armor shouldn't. Going armorless should be a stupid idea no matter what if you ask me.
Also, how should bows fit into this? Are they a light, medium, or heavy weapon? Perhaps arrows should slow you down by a small amount for each one you have, encouraging players to be accurate if they are on the move, but still allows arrow spam if they are in a stationary position.
I don't agree with swords making you slower. You should remove the sword weight from this equation, because it doesn't make sense that you would slow with it held, but can not slow when it's in your inventory. Armor is a little more believable, but weapons aren't equipped items.
Swing rates are sufficient enough. OP, I don't really think the whole system needs to be adjusted with checks and balances, because the weapons alone would provide a sufficient removal of some of the meta issues you mentioned. The reason being that each weapon would be advantageous over another weapon in the same tier. I would be happy to know that I can gain an advantage over someone's diamond weapon if I use the proper tier type.
Edit: Sting, Survival is a RPG element. You're saying it's a sandbox RPG. RPG in that statement is the dominant attribute.
EDIT: MODERATORS DON'T MOVE THIS TO SUGGESTIONS. IT WILL DIE A MOST PAINFUL DEATH THERE.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539
I agree with you bro.
But if you don't mind me to explain, the reason I added weight on to the weapons is because mainly of a PvP aspect, and I added the whole weight aspect in because there have been SO many times when I've joined a popular multiplayer server, and I'll just get ganked by someone in full diamond. I mostly see it as a way to try and prevent something like that from happening to newcomers, and still finding a way to balance in when a player is in a situation where they need to fight someone else in PvP and attempt to find a way to even the odds, or just make things more interesting.
Hey.
Maybe different weapon types would be an excuse to add more mob types too?
Gold is the second most heavy element.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539
I still stand by my opinion that you should be able to smelt gold into coins, but that's besides the point of this conversation.
Hey.
Swords do one kind of damage, arrows do a different kind. We need more types of arrows, for example iron and diamond tipped ones which partially or completely ignore the armor.
Blunt force damage would be nice as well, for example a club, mace, or hammer... make them strike more slowly and have leather armor be a better defense against that type of damage.
Adding an encumbrance system is a nice idea, but almost always runs into problems when you actually attempt it. Which is why most games which try to use one quickly patch it out of existence. I'd rather just see more variety in the weapons and armor types, so that there's always a counter for what you're using/wearing.
What strikes me as odd is this idea that if you improve one aspect you can no longer improve another as much. As Minecraft's combat does not take place in a vacuum, but instead in a world made of blocks you can manipulate, it is inherently tied to the sandbox functionality of the game. Likewise, when you build anything outside of peaceful mode, there is inherently a combat aspect in defending that structure, even if only the act of placing torches to prevent monster spawns. So sure, improve the combat, give sandbox some new toys, and everyone's happy... I don't see how this is such an issue.
That being said, there's more to combat than just simple "full diamond lololol". There are potions and enchantments as of 1.8, and there's always the bow which is arguably better than a diamond sword if you're good at kiting. If you're clever you can devise far more interesting ways of taking your opponent down then smacking them on the head with a diamond sword. I get that you're trying to make combat more interesting, but the picture you paint of it as it is isn't quite accurate.
ALSO
Gold armor should protect the most, be the second lightest to leather, but be the weakest.
I don't think we need to add the different classes of armor. We can just keep what we have! Leather (light), Iron (medium), Diamond (heavy). And in my opinion light armor shouldn't encumber you at all. I would have it like this:
Leather at 100%
Iron at 85%
Diamond at 70%
But the diamond still needs to be weakened a bit, or iron strengthened. And I 100% agree with your weapons, that would be badass! I used to use Cloud's buster sword from FF7 as my diamond sword, feels so epic. Not to mention it would make combat in the beginning a bit easier and cheaper, and for those who focus more on mining and building, it's 1 less iron (or stone, iron, or diamond)!
One thing I've always thought they should've added was to add shields also.
EDIT: @supa1337killa I forgot about gold. In my opinion diamond should protect more than gold. In protectivenss it would be Leather<Iron<Gold<Diamond. But in weight Leather<Gold<Iron<Diamond. Btw the different sized weapons should cause slower movement speed also, maybe sword -5% and greatsword -10% movement speed as well as having to wait a bit longer in between attacks.
Full Leather: 7 Points (28% damage reduction) (-14% speed)
Full Gold: 11 Points (44% damage reduction) (-22% speed)
Full Chainmail: 12 (48% damage reduction) (-24% speed)
Full Iron: 15 (60% damage reduction) (-30% speed)
Full Diamond: 20 (80% damage reduction) (-40% speed)
This also allows for players to mix and match with varying speed losses. Enchants for a reduced speed loss could also be added for the lucky.
[Edit: Some individual armor values, subject to abbreviation]
Helmet
Leather: 1 Point (4%) (-2%)
Gold: 2 Points (8%) (-4%)
Chain: 2 Points (8%) (-4%)
Iron: 2 Points (8%) (-4%)
Diamond: 3 Points (12%) (-6%)
Chestplate
L: 3 (12%) (-6%)
G: 5 (20%) (-10%)
C: 5 (20%) (-10%)
I: 6 (24%) (-12%)
D: 8 (32%) (-16%)
Leggings
L: 2 (8%) (-4%)
G: 3 (12%) (-6%)
C: 4 (16%) (-8%)
I: 5 (20%) (-10%)
D: 6 (24%) (-12%)
Helmet
L: 1 (4%) (-2%)
G: 1 (4%) (-2%)
C: 1 (4%) (-2%)
I: 2 (8%) (-4%)
D: 3 (12%) (-6%)
[End Edit]
I also agree that new weapons need to be implemented. Not sure how they would code shorter delays before firing but it could be possible, and would make Greatswords and Daggers fully possible.
And if you really want to improve combat... allow us to sprint with buttons besides W. Side sprinting and back sprinting would be helpful in PvP and PvE, and even in non-combat.
These changes wouldn't make you crunch numbers, it's based off of common sense.If you wear heavy armor you can't run as fast, but can take more damage. If you use a heavy weapon you hit slower, but you hit with more damage. I really hope something like this gets implemented.
I'm autistic. :/
Your definition of "meta" is also off, as aforementioned.