I suggest looking over the official forums, as The Wither has now been fully integrated into the tech tree. As for handling water channels, you can still I believe make use of vanilla behavior that causes two adjacent source blocks to create another between them. You may also want to take a look at the Screw Pump, a piece of late game tech used for moving water uphill with mechanical power.
I am talking about building water ways that can be used for sailing in a boat - connecting lakes, rivers and seas by a channel network.
You can actually do that with a screw pump.
It takes tons of pumps(like, one every two blocks in a 1 wide channel), but you can do it, and it looks and works fine.
Being able to place a source block next to an EXISTING water source block will change practically nothing in Hardcore Buckets idea, but will open back up this whole water ways building part of the game.
On the contrary, being able to effectively place a source block in any horizontal area would dramatically change the nature of water management and significantly devalue Screw Pumps.
BTW just doesn't support those particular kinds of aesthetics, but opens open brand new possibilities in other areas. In any game there are things you can and can't do based on the particular rules that are in place, and this is no different.
And no, I'm not a fan of user options for such things (or for much of anything). At one point there was such an option for HC buckets and I intentionally removed it so that I could focus on a single mode of play.
Well, I admit that is true, I didn't think of it. Maybe it might be viable to introduce this to a much later game then... It might be done by adding a scroll/enchant to village trading system that will upgrade your bucket to one that can place water source block next to an existing one.
That would still devalue screw pumps, as they are the late/endgame method of shunting water about. You can't add a more powerful method without cutting out this part of the game.
(bearing in mind each pump has a horizontal reach of 13 blocks- you can get a fair bit done)
FYI- With enough digging you can have your hydro-architecture at sea level.
(Or just drain the sea, leaving only the water you need)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
Just to explain why I started this discussion: I think the whole idea with Screw Pumps is nice, but unfortunately not worth the effort. I mean, if I need water, it is much easier to go to water and build whatever I need there, instead of bringing the water up. I would very much like to know if anyone bothered with screw pumps more than just to see how they work?
Quite right, its a lot easier to go down to the water, rather than the other way around. Sometimes the first choice isnt an option though.
I've used them a few times- mostly for extending the flow rather than lifting it. [you can go 13 blocks between pumps, so you don't need that many]
It saves dropping the build down a few levels [which generally involves a LOT of digging), and its easier than building an item lifting system.
Quite a few people on the server have built water towers and viaducts, so they don't have to live in a cave/pit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
Hmmm... true. It won't happen then at all, I see now.
Just to explain why I started this discussion: I think the whole idea with Screw Pumps is nice, but unfortunately not worth the effort. I mean, if I need water, it is much easier to go to water and build whatever I need there, instead of bringing the water up. I would very much like to know if anyone bothered with screw pumps more than just to see how they work? I enjoyed very much the whole idea of mechanical power, building mill, hibachis, crucibles (which are overpowered, by the way), because all of it had its purpose. With screw pumps, this purpose is quite ethereal and hard to see - too little bang for the buck.
Well, too bad - it's not a big problem anyway, I can live with it.
Many complicated automated builds are made MUCH easier with screw pumps and really any large scale automated build is a below-ground affair unless you have screw pumps
Here is an album where I used pumps **extensively**
@FlowerChild: BTW, I don't know whether you know that your official forum on sargunster is somehow broken - there is no way to register as a new forum user, I tried with Chrome and IE, but no option to register appear.
Registration on the forums is periodically closed. You're just going to have to check back every so often to see if it has been re-enabled
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Angels are bright, though the brightest fell. Though all things foul would wear the brows of grace; Still grace must look so.
And by the way; Who is John Galt?
Well, I'm impressed. You built that on survival?? I'm not that kind of a player then. I build only really needed buildings, usually without any automation at all - sometimes I automate wheat collecting by water flood or by turning off lights if I have a farm underground. However I love exploring, building landmarks and hand drawing maps. This is also why I often build channels (do not mix with canals). I thought that the thread can be closed, but after seeing your constructions, I again come to a conclusion that enabling buckets to add source block next to an existing water source block would not interfere with usefulness of Screw Pumps. You can not simply take a bucketful of water and create a new river from high above, but you should be able to widen existing rivers and lakes.
I leave to FC to decide on this matter. He might add this as a test feature in next update and test the concept.
@FlowerChild: BTW, I don't know whether you know that your official forum on sargunster is somehow broken - there is no way to register as a new forum user, I tried with Chrome and IE, but no option to register appear.
Yeah it was on survival, but prior to some of the tech tree changes which rearranged steel behind the end, the wither before the end, and gearboxes requiring gold, so it would take longer to get here.
FC already said that the use of buckets would break the feature, and he's right. The fact that it wouldn't obviously break the need for builds like mine doesn't avoid that fact.
The reality is that there was a mountain with a water source block high up a few hundred blocks from this base. But I didn't want to relocate, If I could have done what you said I could have easily carried that source block over to my base, across HUGE distances, without needing anything but a bucket and blocks, and then I would have never needed a pump stack. This would both destroy half the need for pumps as well as make minecarts irrelevant. Boats are for waterways, rails are for land. That's really just the way it is in BTW.
FC already said that the use of buckets would break the feature, and he's right. The fact that it wouldn't obviously break the need for builds like mine doesn't avoid that fact.
Beyond Screw Pumps being used to transport water it would also break an element of base location selection and how surrounding terrain tends to influence overall base construction in BTW.
These are subtle factors, but I like to think in BTW these kinds of considerations make choosing a location for a base a little more interesting than in vanilla where it really all comes down the aesthetics.
Screw Pumps actually came way after HC Buckets were first put into the game, so they're a refinement of the idea to allow players to build more elaborate structures in the late game, rather than the reason for that feature working the way it does in the first place.
Screw Pumps exist because of the way HC Buckets works, not the other way around, and provide a way of bypassing *some* of its restrictions with a fair amount of effort once you're at a certain tech level.
HC Buckets exists in the first place because channeling water and the mini thought-exercises that come along with it are cool, and keep the player more engaged while working on other projects. Central to that is the rule that "water needs to drop down one block for every 8 traveled horizontally", which would be completely broken by being able to create source blocks next to others whenever you like.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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So I was watching an LP on Hexxit (a tekkit modpack) because a friend of mine wants me to play. Interesting quote from the LP "I was really expecting to find diamonds in the first 2 minutes" I just can't imagine that being much fun. I'll probably play some, just to spend time with my friend - but has BTW just ruined me for other mods?(and vanilla for that matter?) FC I don't know if I need to thank you or be mad at you. I feel a little bit of both. Before BTW I'm sure I would have found things like readily available diamonds and Cloud Boots a lot of fun. Now I'm just asking myself - "Where is the challenge in that?"
The only way I've been able to enjoy forgemods myself is through self imposed challenges, like combining IC2 and Forestry, while not allowing myself to use any tools beyond wooden and relying solely on trading, temples, and IC2's agriculture system to advance through their tech trees. Even with all that, death is still meaningless though when I keep popping up back at spawn, I wish we had a way to port over all the hardcore modes to the other mods.
BTW does seem to make most other mods and vanilla minecraft seem boring/unchallenging.
I just enjoy the other mods as a sort of break from the harder mods, something where I can kick back and relax.
And I still enjoy things like diamonds in two minuets in other, non-BTW environments because when I play them, I'm not looking for a challenge, I'm looking for simply fun and enjoyment
It has been some time since I last played Better Than Wolves... so... can someone help? I want to play BTW again, but together with Optifine and Dokucraft. I have the 1.5.2 version of all the three, but whenever I try to install manually or using the McPatcher or MagicLauncher, it fails. Can someone help?
To explain better, I want to play Minecraft with:
- Better Than Wolves
- Optifine
- Dokucraft (texture pack)
[and Rei's Minimap too, but that would be cheating, right?]
To explain better, I want to play Minecraft with:
- Better Than Wolves
- Optifine
- Dokucraft (texture pack)
[and Rei's Minimap too, but that would be cheating, right?]
BTW isn't compatible with either Optifine or Rei's (or anything).
It does however contain its own performance optimizations, so you may find that Optifine isn't as necessary as you may have thought.
And yes, using a minimap with BTW would definitely qualify as cheating. Navigation and orienteering is a big part of the gameplay.
So, incompatible with everything, I know. But.... is there anything that does in-game recipe lookup ala NEI (I know that doesn't work and I don't want the temptation of the cheats anyway) that can be coaxed into getting along with BTW? I'm horrible with remembering recipes and hate swapping out to the wiki.
While I'm here, let me add: Flowerchild, congrats on totally changing my gameplay style. The longer I play the more I'm noticing it: I've become deeply paranoid. There's a taiga just north of my base but I'm avoiding it like the plague because I live convinced I'm going to get my face eaten off the moment I set foot in there. I look for creepers about every three steps. I wall off areas in caves before I even think about mining out resources. I've also started begrudging every last block, leading to things like making fall-proofing 'railings' for walkways out of half-slabs instead of fences because it takes less wood. And deprived of my beloved minimaps, since my RL sense of direction does not translate at all to a world of identical cubes, I've developed an elaborate system of low-resource marker posts.
I swear to god I must be the only true optimist left on the planet.
Quote from FlowerChild »
See...I kept telling everyone that wolves are evil despicable creatures, but would anyone listen? No, of course not, and now you're all ******, so "haha...told you so".
You may want to try Uristqwerty's CraftGuide (link: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/731133- )
I THINK it works with BTW, but use it by your own risk.
-EDIT- ninja'd by a flea that looks like a cat.
-EDIT 2- Aaaaaaand I just finished the first mobtrap I'm proud of. It works flawlessly, and it'll look nice after it got 40 blocks tall (for now, it's just a weird box with funny faces):
Glad you're enjoying it man
You can actually do that with a screw pump.
It takes tons of pumps(like, one every two blocks in a 1 wide channel), but you can do it, and it looks and works fine.
On the contrary, being able to effectively place a source block in any horizontal area would dramatically change the nature of water management and significantly devalue Screw Pumps.
BTW just doesn't support those particular kinds of aesthetics, but opens open brand new possibilities in other areas. In any game there are things you can and can't do based on the particular rules that are in place, and this is no different.
And no, I'm not a fan of user options for such things (or for much of anything). At one point there was such an option for HC buckets and I intentionally removed it so that I could focus on a single mode of play.
That would still devalue screw pumps, as they are the late/endgame method of shunting water about. You can't add a more powerful method without cutting out this part of the game.
(bearing in mind each pump has a horizontal reach of 13 blocks- you can get a fair bit done)
FYI- With enough digging you can have your hydro-architecture at sea level.
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
Quite right, its a lot easier to go down to the water, rather than the other way around. Sometimes the first choice isnt an option though.
I've used them a few times- mostly for extending the flow rather than lifting it. [you can go 13 blocks between pumps, so you don't need that many]
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
Many complicated automated builds are made MUCH easier with screw pumps and really any large scale automated build is a below-ground affair unless you have screw pumps
Here is an album where I used pumps **extensively**
http://imgur.com/a/6fqfL#0
Got half the story there.
Registration on the forums is periodically closed. You're just going to have to check back every so often to see if it has been re-enabled
Angels are bright, though the brightest fell. Though all things foul would wear the brows of grace; Still grace must look so.
And by the way; Who is John Galt?
Yeah it was on survival, but prior to some of the tech tree changes which rearranged steel behind the end, the wither before the end, and gearboxes requiring gold, so it would take longer to get here.
FC already said that the use of buckets would break the feature, and he's right. The fact that it wouldn't obviously break the need for builds like mine doesn't avoid that fact.
The reality is that there was a mountain with a water source block high up a few hundred blocks from this base. But I didn't want to relocate, If I could have done what you said I could have easily carried that source block over to my base, across HUGE distances, without needing anything but a bucket and blocks, and then I would have never needed a pump stack. This would both destroy half the need for pumps as well as make minecarts irrelevant. Boats are for waterways, rails are for land. That's really just the way it is in BTW.
Already decided that it wasn't going to happen with your first post on the topic, and said as much.
Beyond Screw Pumps being used to transport water it would also break an element of base location selection and how surrounding terrain tends to influence overall base construction in BTW.
These are subtle factors, but I like to think in BTW these kinds of considerations make choosing a location for a base a little more interesting than in vanilla where it really all comes down the aesthetics.
Screw Pumps actually came way after HC Buckets were first put into the game, so they're a refinement of the idea to allow players to build more elaborate structures in the late game, rather than the reason for that feature working the way it does in the first place.
Screw Pumps exist because of the way HC Buckets works, not the other way around, and provide a way of bypassing *some* of its restrictions with a fair amount of effort once you're at a certain tech level.
HC Buckets exists in the first place because channeling water and the mini thought-exercises that come along with it are cool, and keep the player more engaged while working on other projects. Central to that is the rule that "water needs to drop down one block for every 8 traveled horizontally", which would be completely broken by being able to create source blocks next to others whenever you like.
I just enjoy the other mods as a sort of break from the harder mods, something where I can kick back and relax.
And I still enjoy things like diamonds in two minuets in other, non-BTW environments because when I play them, I'm not looking for a challenge, I'm looking for simply fun and enjoyment
and games. Nowadays if i find a game isn't hard, it's not much fun.
I want to play BTW again, but together with Optifine and Dokucraft. I have the 1.5.2 version of all the three, but whenever I try to install manually or using the McPatcher or MagicLauncher, it fails. Can someone help?
To explain better, I want to play Minecraft with:
- Better Than Wolves
- Optifine
- Dokucraft (texture pack)
[and Rei's Minimap too, but that would be cheating, right?]
BTW isn't compatible with either Optifine or Rei's (or anything).
It does however contain its own performance optimizations, so you may find that Optifine isn't as necessary as you may have thought.
And yes, using a minimap with BTW would definitely qualify as cheating. Navigation and orienteering is a big part of the gameplay.
For Dokucraft, you probably want to check out this: http://www.sargunster.com/btwforum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2552
While I'm here, let me add: Flowerchild, congrats on totally changing my gameplay style. The longer I play the more I'm noticing it: I've become deeply paranoid. There's a taiga just north of my base but I'm avoiding it like the plague because I live convinced I'm going to get my face eaten off the moment I set foot in there. I look for creepers about every three steps. I wall off areas in caves before I even think about mining out resources. I've also started begrudging every last block, leading to things like making fall-proofing 'railings' for walkways out of half-slabs instead of fences because it takes less wood. And deprived of my beloved minimaps, since my RL sense of direction does not translate at all to a world of identical cubes, I've developed an elaborate system of low-resource marker posts.
CraftGuide does. You'll need to scroll a fair way down to find the 'No-Loader' version. It was made to work with Better Than Wolves.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/731133-172-craftguide-v1681/
You may want to try Uristqwerty's CraftGuide (link: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/731133- )
I THINK it works with BTW, but use it by your own risk.
-EDIT- ninja'd by a flea that looks like a cat.
-EDIT 2- Aaaaaaand I just finished the first mobtrap I'm proud of. It works flawlessly, and it'll look nice after it got 40 blocks tall (for now, it's just a weird box with funny faces):