Someone earlier stated that if a server that gets millions of monthly users had a subscription fee of 1$, and everyone got mad and only 10% of their stated userbase remains, than that is over 10,000$ / month, cosmetic kits and willing donations excluded.
Would you pay 1$ to play on your favorite big server?
(Didn't see this until now, so there are quite a few comments in between the original and my reply)
I may have a dollar to spare, sure.
I don't know about the significantly large portion of Minecraft users that are under 10 and probably don't even understand what a "monthly subscription fee" is, and wouldn't be sure how to ask their parents for a dollar every month.
I guess the "10%" can exclude the specific playerbase Mojang was looking to protect with these EULA changes, then. Wonderful.
Or perhaps Mojang will get emails now from parents of kids who stole their cards to pay for a $200-per-month subscription fee for the new type of scam server I could see spawning from the new EULA. The only difference with these new theoretical scam servers is that they'd be perfectly legal by Mojang's standards. You could argue that a server with a $200 subscription fee would never last, but then I could have argued (and many people did, actually) that servers that charge hundreds of dollars for access to things like diamonds would also fail.
Actually, with some tricky editing, you could just put every minigame on a different server, and then charge access to those servers. IF you wanted to have them connect I'm pretty sure there is a way to do that too. I'm sure someone will figure out a way. Trust me, this is gonna be a lot better for Minecraft in the long run.
If you access them without leaving the server and manually logging into a new one, the EULA considers it to be the same server.
You are over dramatizing what pay to win is, even worse than mojang it. Even if it is not perfectly 100% balanced it makes the servers more competitive and fun. Where is the fun in playing a server where every has the same exact stuff?
the fun comes from working yourself and progressing naturally though the game. Balance isnt making sure everyone has the same gear, it makeing sure that everyone is equally able to get to same gear. im not overdramatizing that at all.
that's a lie. it's not competitive at all, because paying customers will always win, non paying will always lose. hence no competition.
when everyone has the same stuff, skill decides who wins, not the depth of one's wallet.
How so? Donators are not automatically OP. That is not a true statement.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Weird Things Mods Say When Booting
[Client thread/INFO] [TConstruct]: Natura, what are we going to do tomorrow night?
[Client thread/INFO] [Natura]: TConstruct, we're going to take over the world!
[Client thread/INFO] [inpure|core]: Beating Minecraft's resource loading system with a shovel. Please stand by...
[Client thread/INFO] [MagicBees]: Replacing stupid-block with 'Here, have some delicious textures' ItemBlock. This is 100% normal.
the fun comes from working yourself and progressing naturally though the game. Balance isnt making sure everyone has the same gear, it makeing sure that everyone is equally able to get to same gear. im not overdramatizing that at all.
Equality will never exist on the internet or anywhere in the world. You really are over dramatizing this. There is no problem with servers that charge for a small advantage. There really isn't. If it was no one would play there. If you don't like it, you find a server that does not give away items as donations. It as simple as that. It is totally unfair to make other servers suffer because of a few bad server owners. Like I said someone donating for slightly better gear, getting it faster enhances the server experience and adds more competitively and fun.
Just because something is illegal does not automatically make it right. That is why jurors (in the US at least have the power of jury nullification)
As a vegan you do not go into a steak house and complain that there are a lack of vegan food options. You do not then go on yelp and complain they did not accommodate your needs. I am sure you can see the parallel to servers that give donators a small advantage when donating.
Equality will never exist on the internet or anywhere in the world. You really are over dramatizing this. There is no problem with servers that charge for a small advantage. There really isn't. If it was no one would play there. If you don't like it, you find a server that does not give away items as donations. It as simple as that. It is totally unfair to make other servers suffer because of a few bad server owners. Like I said someone donating for slightly better gear, getting it faster enhances the server experience and adds more competitively and fun.
the problem is there are not just a "few bad servers" and the servers you praise are the minority. Each server that offers perks for money does not encourage competitiveness and fun. nothing is fun about working hard and progressing though the game, getting awesome gear so you stand a change. only to have some random person join and do it all in 2 seconds because they payed 20 bucks for a kit. That's not competitiveness, its not fun. And the only way to get rid of the bad servers is to make these rules.
Just because something is illegal does not automatically make it right. That is why jurors (in the US at least have the power of jury nullification)
As a vegan you do not go into a steak house and complain that there are a lack of vegan food options. You do not then go on yelp and complain they did not accommodate your needs. I am sure you can see the parallel to servers that give donators a small advantage when donating.
Or wrong, for that matter...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Weird Things Mods Say When Booting
[Client thread/INFO] [TConstruct]: Natura, what are we going to do tomorrow night?
[Client thread/INFO] [Natura]: TConstruct, we're going to take over the world!
[Client thread/INFO] [inpure|core]: Beating Minecraft's resource loading system with a shovel. Please stand by...
[Client thread/INFO] [MagicBees]: Replacing stupid-block with 'Here, have some delicious textures' ItemBlock. This is 100% normal.
Just because something is illegal does not automatically make it right. That is why jurors (in the US at least have the power of jury nullification)
As a vegan you do not go into a steak house and complain that there are a lack of vegan food options. You do not then go on yelp and complain they did not accommodate your needs. I am sure you can see the parallel to servers that give donators a small advantage when donating.
Except a vegan doesn't own the restaurant, Mojang has a legal right to tell you what to do with your server.
the fun comes from working yourself and progressing naturally though the game. Balance isnt making sure everyone has the same gear, it makeing sure that everyone is equally able to get to same gear. im not overdramatizing that at all.
The thing with a lot of the better servers that people are still calling "pay-to-win" is that this progression you speak of was already available. The only reason people would pay on these types of servers would be to get to further stages of progression faster.
I hate the use of the term "Pay-to-win" here, since in most cases the more accurate term would have been "Pay-to-get-there-faster"
and this is illegal. minrcraft is a game, a hobby. only people who have the right to treat it as a business are mojang employees. anyone else would need to buy a licence.
We realize this is illegal. Hence the discussion. Why doesn't Mojang just sell licences then? That'd be nice.
this comparison would work better if mojang was charging you for everything, not its third party customers.
to use your comparison, it'd be like this treyarch gave dlc guns away for free, and then players who got them would resell them to other players for $60 each..
Sure, that's a fair comparison of only the "bad apples" Mojang is trying to get rid of. You could use this comparison for good apples:
[Developer] spent months and months developing a completely new game, using one of Treyarch's games as a sort of makeshift engine. They uploaded it to a mod database website and put a donate button beside it, promising that they'd be able to spend even more time and put even more effort into future mods if the community could fund their hardware or maybe even a team of developers if enough people donated. Treyarch then decided they didn't like the idea of a donate button. They removed all mods from the mod database that had a donate button because they made money off of their games.
(No, I'm not trying to compare the donate button here to a donate option on servers, I know that's legal. The donate button here represents current forms of income servers like Mineplex and Shotbow use)
there is no such thing as personal minecraft servers. the software belongs to mojang, and the players simply rent the right to use it. you didn't buy the server software itself, just the right to use it under mojang's terms (called the eula).
As far as I know, the software you download to run a server is free.. Correct me if I'm wrong.
that's a lie. it's not competitive at all, because paying customers will always win, non paying will always lose. hence no competition.
when everyone has the same stuff, skill decides who wins, not the depth of one's wallet.
I don't think it's fair or logical to call someone's opinion and then subsequent question a "lie."
And I can attest to the opposite of what you claim in your second sentence here. I've played on the Shotbow Network for months and months. I've done plenty of winning. I'm not a paying customer. The server network has not seen a dime of my money.
the problem is there are not just a "few bad servers" and the servers you praise are the minority. Each server that offers perks for money does not encourage competitiveness and fun. nothing is fun about working hard and progressing though the game, getting awesome gear so you stand a change. only to have some random person join and do it all in 2 seconds because they payed 20 bucks for a kit. That's not competitiveness, its not fun. And the only way to get rid of the bad servers is to make these rules.
What we need to settle in this thread at this point is what becomes an unfair advantage. I happen to agree with you, weapon/armor/command kits are a huge advantage that free players often need days or weeks or more to collect, or cannot collect at all (such as a sharpness X weapon). But would you argue that a kit that gives you some carrots, potatoes, seeds, and a hoe is an unfair advantage? Personally I don't see it as such because those items are not only possible, but actually somewhat easy to obtain.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
The thing with a lot of the better servers that people are still calling "pay-to-win" is that this progression you speak of was already available. The only reason people would pay on these types of servers would be to get to further stages of progression faster.
I hate the use of the term "Pay-to-win" here, since in most cases the more accurate term would have been "Pay-to-get-there-faster" Ok fine, getting there faster is still paying to win.. you can PLAY to progress and win or you can PAY to progress and win. its literally the same thing. whiter or not you can play and get the same thing is arbitrary.
We realize this is illegal. Hence the discussion. Why doesn't Mojang just sell licences then? That'd be nice. i actually really support this idea.
Sure, that's a fair comparison of only the "bad apples" Mojang is trying to get rid of. You could use this comparison for good apples: Id say they are being quite generous to the people who want to stay honest. Letting us still make money at all is pretty freaking generous.
As far as I know, the software you download to run a server is free.. Correct me if I'm wrong. All minecraft servers, public and private, utilize Mojangs authentication and login servers. on some level or another you are using mojangs services. unless you decided to run offline mode with himachi or LAN. but that's not exactly ideal for a large server.
I really hate mojang doing this because of the bad apples. there is a difference between paying 10 dollars for full protection 30 armor and a sharpness 50 sword on a pvp server versus paying 5 dollars for /thor, minor/limited w/e (limited to you cant like crash the server) /fly , /tp , /gamemode 1, a very limited /give and /disguise on a survival serveer with specific rules on how to use them and plugins to stop abuse such as rule for /give: if oyu are caught /give'ing yourself stuff to then sell to server shop, you will be banned. And for /fly they have a plugin so you cant fly in combat. rule for /tp were no tp killing or be banned. They also had a really good report system for this and moderators were active. This was a good server and it wasnt OP in terms of what donating gave you. And of course they had the CreativeControl plugin as well. /give was limited in the sense that you could only spawn in basic things (e.g. wood or stone tools, redstone stuff etc. Spawning in diamonds was disabled and spawning tools/armor in stacks was also disabled.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
That's a bad comparison. If you were to compare servers to restaurants, the owners of the restaurant would be the server owner, not Mojang. Actually, Mojang has all legal rights to your minecraft server and could tell you to stop running it just because they wanted you too.
What we need to settle in this thread at this point is what becomes an unfair advantage. I happen to agree with you, weapon/armor/command kits are a huge advantage that free players often need days or weeks or more to collect, or cannot collect at all (such as a sharpness X weapon). But would you argue that a kit that gives you some carrots, potatoes, seeds, and a hoe is an unfair advantage? Personally I don't see it as such because those items are not only possible, but actually somewhat easy to obtain. i do agree with you, but how many servers offer those types of Kits? Who would even buy them, like you said the difference to game play is so small its stupid. But i do acknowledge that there are perfectly honest servers out there that do things like this. Unfortunately, not as many as there should be. if there where this EULA change would have never happened.
the problem is there are not just a "few bad servers" and the servers you praise are the minority. Each server that offers perks for money does not encourage competitiveness and fun. nothing is fun about working hard and progressing though the game, getting awesome gear so you stand a change. only to have some random person join and do it all in 2 seconds because they payed 20 bucks for a kit. That's not competitiveness, its not fun. And the only way to get rid of the bad servers is to make these rules.
im neutral i pay for a dedicated for friends/family to play, but just pointing out that just about every major MMO does this. there is just a balance between rewarding people who have time to play and casual players who cant play 8 hours a day. getting a /kit that gives you iron gear is equivelant to mining for specific time but its not as OP as having a /kit that gives you an enchanted god set. P2W is not something you can just cover with a blanket statement.
there are players with all the time in the world that just plop around all day, dont contribute to anything except cry and complain... that definately do not deserve all-and-equal. Those of us who play on big servers all know who they are, and they usually outnumber the amount of arrogant people that buy top tier ranks.
im neutral i pay for a dedicated for friends/family to play, but just pointing out that just about every major MMO does this. there is just a balance between rewarding people who have time to play and casual players who cant play 8 hours a day. getting a /kit that gives you iron gear is equivelant to mining for specific time but its not as OP as having a /kit that gives you an enchanted god set. P2W is not something you can just cover with a blanket statement.
there are players with all the time in the world that just plop around all day, dont contribute to anything except cry and complain... that definately do not deserve all-and-equal. Those of us who play on big servers all know who they are, and they usually outnumber the amount of arrogant people that buy top tier ranks.
yeah i know there are tons of games exactly like this. and Mojang clearly doesn't want minecraft becoming one. and neither do i and a large percentage of the community. Also, the MMOs that have micro-transactions are typically FTP with the games that rely on these transactions. and finally when you pay for things in these MMOs its going to the company that made the game, not some server owner.
I mean that as going on a server that has some items as donator perks, complaining, leaving then going on the internet to complain.
yeah of course, but i do believe it was mojang who decided that the EULA needed to be changed on there own. Sure they where spammed a bunch, but mojang said that it was becoming something they never wanted it to be.
I really hate mojang doing this because of the bad apples. there is a difference between paying 10 dollars for full protection 30 armor and a sharpness 50 sword on a pvp server versus paying 5 dollars for /thor, minor/limited w/e (limited to you cant like crash the server) /fly , /tp , /gamemode 1, a very limited /give and /disguise on a survival serveer with specific rules on how to use them and plugins to stop abuse such as rule for /give: if oyu are caught /give'ing yourself stuff to then sell to server shop, you will be banned. And for /fly they have a plugin so you cant fly in combat. rule for /tp were no tp killing or be banned. They also had a really good report system for this and moderators were active. This was a good server and it wasnt OP in terms of what donating gave you. And of course they had the CreativeControl plugin as well. /give was limited in the sense that you could only spawn in basic things (e.g. wood or stone tools, redstone stuff etc. Spawning in diamonds was disabled and spawning tools/armor in stacks was also disabled.
the gameplay itself was quite balanced even if the donors have those commands. It was one of those small server types with a average of 25 users and noone ever abused their powers.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
Can I give paying users priority access to my server? Yes, but you cannot restrict gameplay elements to specific users.
So this FAQ answer seems pretty ambiguous to me, does it mean that I can sell perks, so long as those same perks are avaliable to players in game?
So an example, say I want to sell /fly, however you can also get /fly in game if you achieve a certain rank. Does that make it okay because /fly is not restricted to donors (when I say donors I realize it isn't a donation, its just the common term), and everyone can get /fly at some point?
(Didn't see this until now, so there are quite a few comments in between the original and my reply)
I may have a dollar to spare, sure.
I don't know about the significantly large portion of Minecraft users that are under 10 and probably don't even understand what a "monthly subscription fee" is, and wouldn't be sure how to ask their parents for a dollar every month.
I guess the "10%" can exclude the specific playerbase Mojang was looking to protect with these EULA changes, then. Wonderful.
Or perhaps Mojang will get emails now from parents of kids who stole their cards to pay for a $200-per-month subscription fee for the new type of scam server I could see spawning from the new EULA. The only difference with these new theoretical scam servers is that they'd be perfectly legal by Mojang's standards. You could argue that a server with a $200 subscription fee would never last, but then I could have argued (and many people did, actually) that servers that charge hundreds of dollars for access to things like diamonds would also fail.
This whole situation is so.. weird. :L
the fun comes from working yourself and progressing naturally though the game. Balance isnt making sure everyone has the same gear, it makeing sure that everyone is equally able to get to same gear. im not overdramatizing that at all.
How so? Donators are not automatically OP. That is not a true statement.
[Client thread/INFO] [Natura]: TConstruct, we're going to take over the world!
Equality will never exist on the internet or anywhere in the world. You really are over dramatizing this. There is no problem with servers that charge for a small advantage. There really isn't. If it was no one would play there. If you don't like it, you find a server that does not give away items as donations. It as simple as that. It is totally unfair to make other servers suffer because of a few bad server owners. Like I said someone donating for slightly better gear, getting it faster enhances the server experience and adds more competitively and fun.
As a vegan you do not go into a steak house and complain that there are a lack of vegan food options. You do not then go on yelp and complain they did not accommodate your needs. I am sure you can see the parallel to servers that give donators a small advantage when donating.
the problem is there are not just a "few bad servers" and the servers you praise are the minority. Each server that offers perks for money does not encourage competitiveness and fun. nothing is fun about working hard and progressing though the game, getting awesome gear so you stand a change. only to have some random person join and do it all in 2 seconds because they payed 20 bucks for a kit. That's not competitiveness, its not fun. And the only way to get rid of the bad servers is to make these rules.
Or wrong, for that matter...
[Client thread/INFO] [Natura]: TConstruct, we're going to take over the world!
Except a vegan doesn't own the restaurant, Mojang has a legal right to tell you what to do with your server.
The thing with a lot of the better servers that people are still calling "pay-to-win" is that this progression you speak of was already available. The only reason people would pay on these types of servers would be to get to further stages of progression faster.
I hate the use of the term "Pay-to-win" here, since in most cases the more accurate term would have been "Pay-to-get-there-faster"
We realize this is illegal. Hence the discussion. Why doesn't Mojang just sell licences then? That'd be nice.
Sure, that's a fair comparison of only the "bad apples" Mojang is trying to get rid of. You could use this comparison for good apples:
[Developer] spent months and months developing a completely new game, using one of Treyarch's games as a sort of makeshift engine. They uploaded it to a mod database website and put a donate button beside it, promising that they'd be able to spend even more time and put even more effort into future mods if the community could fund their hardware or maybe even a team of developers if enough people donated. Treyarch then decided they didn't like the idea of a donate button. They removed all mods from the mod database that had a donate button because they made money off of their games.
(No, I'm not trying to compare the donate button here to a donate option on servers, I know that's legal. The donate button here represents current forms of income servers like Mineplex and Shotbow use)
As far as I know, the software you download to run a server is free.. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think it's fair or logical to call someone's opinion and then subsequent question a "lie."
And I can attest to the opposite of what you claim in your second sentence here. I've played on the Shotbow Network for months and months. I've done plenty of winning. I'm not a paying customer. The server network has not seen a dime of my money.
That's a bad comparison. If you were to compare servers to restaurants, the owners of the restaurant would be the server owner, not Mojang.
What we need to settle in this thread at this point is what becomes an unfair advantage. I happen to agree with you, weapon/armor/command kits are a huge advantage that free players often need days or weeks or more to collect, or cannot collect at all (such as a sharpness X weapon). But would you argue that a kit that gives you some carrots, potatoes, seeds, and a hoe is an unfair advantage? Personally I don't see it as such because those items are not only possible, but actually somewhat easy to obtain.
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
im neutral i pay for a dedicated for friends/family to play, but just pointing out that just about every major MMO does this. there is just a balance between rewarding people who have time to play and casual players who cant play 8 hours a day. getting a /kit that gives you iron gear is equivelant to mining for specific time but its not as OP as having a /kit that gives you an enchanted god set. P2W is not something you can just cover with a blanket statement.
there are players with all the time in the world that just plop around all day, dont contribute to anything except cry and complain... that definately do not deserve all-and-equal. Those of us who play on big servers all know who they are, and they usually outnumber the amount of arrogant people that buy top tier ranks.
I mean that as going on a server that has some items as donator perks, complaining, leaving then going on the internet to complain.
yeah i know there are tons of games exactly like this. and Mojang clearly doesn't want minecraft becoming one. and neither do i and a large percentage of the community. Also, the MMOs that have micro-transactions are typically FTP with the games that rely on these transactions. and finally when you pay for things in these MMOs its going to the company that made the game, not some server owner.
yeah of course, but i do believe it was mojang who decided that the EULA needed to be changed on there own. Sure they where spammed a bunch, but mojang said that it was becoming something they never wanted it to be.
I really hate mojang doing this because of the bad apples. there is a difference between paying 10 dollars for full protection 30 armor and a sharpness 50 sword on a pvp server versus paying 5 dollars for /thor, minor/limited w/e (limited to you cant like crash the server) /fly , /tp , /gamemode 1, a very limited /give and /disguise on a survival serveer with specific rules on how to use them and plugins to stop abuse such as rule for /give: if oyu are caught /give'ing yourself stuff to then sell to server shop, you will be banned. And for /fly they have a plugin so you cant fly in combat. rule for /tp were no tp killing or be banned. They also had a really good report system for this and moderators were active. This was a good server and it wasnt OP in terms of what donating gave you. And of course they had the CreativeControl plugin as well. /give was limited in the sense that you could only spawn in basic things (e.g. wood or stone tools, redstone stuff etc. Spawning in diamonds was disabled and spawning tools/armor in stacks was also disabled.
the gameplay itself was quite balanced even if the donors have those commands. It was one of those small server types with a average of 25 users and noone ever abused their powers.
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
Yes, but you cannot restrict gameplay elements to specific users.
So this FAQ answer seems pretty ambiguous to me, does it mean that I can sell perks, so long as those same perks are avaliable to players in game?
So an example, say I want to sell /fly, however you can also get /fly in game if you achieve a certain rank. Does that make it okay because /fly is not restricted to donors (when I say donors I realize it isn't a donation, its just the common term), and everyone can get /fly at some point?
Please quote any comments, thanks!