Telling people to find another server if you hate pay to win is a bit of silly point because this pay to win model is so popular that finding a good well populated server without it is very, very hard.
Lol want non pay to win? Go search VANILLA. Downside is... Block Lag is still an issue of 20+ players, regardless of hardware specs. XD
Perhaps there's a reason that good, well popular servers can have pay to win features while still retaining players. Perhaps people in those communities don't actually mind it for the most part?
Who knows, I was on the server and everyone who wasn't a donor seemed to act rather... young.... Maybe younger users are not aware of the p2w fairness issue. While people who are discussing on this thread are.
There was one about iConomy... asking if the new EULA breaks that. I'm a vanilla gent so wasn't familiar with iConomy and passed it by, but noticed that no one else addressed it, either. There's probably more. I had to repush my own questions up to get answers later.
But here's one I didn't ask before -- do you think under the new EULA that it is unlawful to allow for unbanning for money? Doesn't this fall into PAY TO ACCESS? It'd be on a hardcore map where you are auto-unbanned after 2 weeks.
I don't know much about iConomy eithter, but the unbanning is a vague thing. I would think it is ok because it auto-unbans after 2 weeks for free players, and my advice to you would be to risk it; you'll probably receive more complaints from the playerbase than from Mojang in that case.
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[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Yeah, but Mojang had the right to end whatever that is, people are using their property to make money, no matter where it goes.
And I'm confused.... Why are you saying entrepreneurial and Free Enterprise Systems? It implies that people are trying to make a profit rather than non-profit, which is something people have been arguing about.
Entrepreneurial, at least how I used it, means that it's "business-smart." Free Enterprise just means people can do what they want in the economy, without the threat of governmental interference; except for the fact that this is hypothetical because Mojang is bearing down on us.
Entrepreneurial, at least how I used it, means that it's "business-smart." Free Enterprise just means people can do what they want in the economy, without the threat of governmental interference; except for the fact that this is hypothetical because Mojang is bearing down on us.
But is it for good reason? Like Mojang is the FDA of Minecraft.
Who knows, I was on the server and everyone who wasn't a donor seemed to act rather... young.... Maybe younger users are not aware of the p2w fairness issue. While people who are discussing on this thread are.
If they are still enjoying themselves, does it honestly really matter? So what if they don't understand that so and so is more powerful, if that ignorance allows them to still have a ton of fun along those that enjoy the extra power, who are you to tell them the should change it?
Entrepreneurial, at least how I used it, means that it's "business-smart." Free Enterprise just means people can do what they want in the economy, without the threat of governmental interference; except for the fact that this is hypothetical because Mojang is bearing down on us.
To go along with this a bit, what's going on with Minecraft here would be like if the US government decided to ban free to play games in America. Of course it's different because Mojang can technically do what they're doing here and the US government probably can't ban pay to win games, but...similar, right? Telling everybody they can't do business a certain way, even though playing free to play games or pay to win servers is completely optional.
I assume you're referring to whether the bearing down on us is for good reason? If so, then I say it's not for good reason.
I'm not sure what you mean in your second statement, as FDA is the Food and Drug Administration.
Yes, the FDA is preventing people from just gaining a profit at the expense of others while Mojang is preventing people from buying their way into a game.
I hate this change personally. No reason to change it. If you don't like how a server is being run, don't play on it. If you feel someone is being "taken advantage of" they clearly aren't because they are actively knowing what they are doing. Mojang is sticking their nose where it doesn't belong and WILL severely hurt the Multiplayer community IF they enforce the EULA now. Everyone saying "Yay no more pay to win" is really just disillusional as they can already play on non pay to win servers if they want to. Mojang should not be policing something they know nothing about. There is a different between pay to win and pay to receive a boost. Now some people may bring in the example of TF2 or Dota 2. While I agree that the free to play and "free to compete fairly" model is one of the best if not the best, I believe that individual servers can't create the same type of thing for two reasons. First, a smaller number of users means a less consistent income. Second, any "cosmetic" change in minecraft you can get is really not nearly as cool as the hats you get in TF2 or Dota 2.
TLDR: Mojang get your *stuff* together. Stop complaining about Pay to win, it usually isn't and if it is just go play on another server, there are plenty out there. Hats in minecraft won't sell like hats in TF2 or Dota 2.
If they are still enjoying themselves, does it honestly really matter? So what if they don't understand that so and so is more powerful, if that ignorance allows them to still have a ton of fun along those that enjoy the extra power, who are you to tell them the should change it?
Honestly just end that argument there, what I said and probably what you said is just pure anecdotal things that can't be taken as arguing points. if people find p2w unfair and most servers seem to be p2w, then surely an outcome of trying to stop pay to win will have a good effect. Maybe Mojang does need to compromise more, however, they shouldn't just drop the whole think and keep it the way it was before.
Yes, the FDA is preventing people from just gaining a profit at the expense of others while Mojang is preventing people from buying their way into a game.
When I donate to a server, I'm not "buying my way into the game." I'm contributing both to help the server and for an enhanced and/or different experience. This by no means that other people can't get what I have without good time and effort, and certainly doesn't cause a shift in balance (At least the server I'm on)
To further the debate, when you say "buying your way into the game" are you referring to all servers, survival servers, pvp servers, or Survival Games servers?
What about give away's where everyone has an = chance to win for example a weekly give away one person gets a benefit each time (everyone gets one entry no matter what.
Honestly just end that argument there, what I said and probably what you said is just pure anecdotal things that can't be taken as arguing points. if people find p2w unfair and most servers seem to be p2w, then surely an outcome of trying to stop pay to win will have a good effect. Maybe Mojang does need to compromise more, however, they shouldn't just drop the whole think and keep it the way it was before.
Should they?
Why not?
The server community essentially is a collection of different communities that all want to play their way. If the majority of servers are P2W currently (and honestly, I think we disagree on what exactly P2W is), then wouldn't it stand to reason that the majority of the community is supporting that style of play? If there is a large enough group of people that dislike this style of play, they will create their own community over time and as such create their own play style.
Who's to say either is wrong as long as both are enjoying themselves?
Honestly just end that argument there, what I said and probably what you said is just pure anecdotal things that can't be taken as arguing points. if people find p2w unfair and most servers seem to be p2w, then surely an outcome of trying to stop pay to win will have a good effect. Maybe Mojang does need to compromise more, however, they shouldn't just drop the whole think and keep it the way it was before.
Should they?
Most servers need to be "pay to win" to exist. So while most people would obviously prefer to not need to pay for things on a server, that's just not how it works. Massive, expensive servers that so many like to play on will be gone before giving away their services for free. Why? Because they can't be expected to maintain these huge servers out of the goodness of their hearts.
What about give away's where everyone has an = chance to win for example a weekly give away one person gets a benefit each time (everyone gets one entry no matter what.
When I donate to a server, I'm not "buying my way into the game." I'm contributing both to help the server and for an enhanced and/or different experience. This by no means that other people can't get what I have without good time and effort, and certainly doesn't cause a shift in balance (At least the server I'm on)
To further the debate, when you say "buying your way into the game" are you referring to all servers, survival servers, pvp servers, or Survival Games servers?
Tell the players on my server that, they all think donating is just cheating
When I donate to a server, I'm not "buying my way into the game." I'm contributing both to help the server and for an enhanced and/or different experience. This by no means that other people can't get what I have without good time and effort, and certainly doesn't cause a shift in balance (At least the server I'm on)
To further the debate, when you say "buying your way into the game" are you referring to all servers, survival servers, pvp servers, or Survival Games servers?
All servers........
Okay I'm beginning to lose steam as everyone seems to be turning against the EULA completely.
Is there no possibility that eradicating p2w will not help the community in the long run? Assuming every server with owners with good intentions somehow adapt and pull through?
Okay I'm beginning to lose steam as everyone seems to be turning against the EULA completely.
Is there no possibility that eradicating p2w will not help the community in the long run? Assuming every server with owners with good intentions somehow adapt and pull through?
Im not 100% against this but I'm no where near neutral...I don't know hoe to explain my feelings :/
Okay I'm beginning to lose steam as everyone seems to be turning against the EULA completely.
Is there no possibility that eradicating p2w will not help the community in the long run? Assuming every server with owners with good intentions somehow adapt and pull through?
The problem is it's not just pay to win that's being eradicated. It's perfectly fair use of donation perks. Even the kindest, most player-friendly servers need to live somehow, and Mojang is calling all their methods pay to win. So while there may be some toxic pay-to-win hardcore pvp-with-your-wallet servers out there, plenty of good servers live off of perfectly fair--but beneficial to gameplay--donations. So there is a difference that Mojang is not paying attention to. Let the players decide how much "pay to win" is too much for them and they can avoid these servers.
Who knows, I was on the server and everyone who wasn't a donor seemed to act rather... young.... Maybe younger users are not aware of the p2w fairness issue. While people who are discussing on this thread are.
I don't know much about iConomy eithter, but the unbanning is a vague thing. I would think it is ok because it auto-unbans after 2 weeks for free players, and my advice to you would be to risk it; you'll probably receive more complaints from the playerbase than from Mojang in that case.
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Entrepreneurial, at least how I used it, means that it's "business-smart." Free Enterprise just means people can do what they want in the economy, without the threat of governmental interference; except for the fact that this is hypothetical because Mojang is bearing down on us.
But is it for good reason? Like Mojang is the FDA of Minecraft.
If they are still enjoying themselves, does it honestly really matter? So what if they don't understand that so and so is more powerful, if that ignorance allows them to still have a ton of fun along those that enjoy the extra power, who are you to tell them the should change it?
To go along with this a bit, what's going on with Minecraft here would be like if the US government decided to ban free to play games in America. Of course it's different because Mojang can technically do what they're doing here and the US government probably can't ban pay to win games, but...similar, right? Telling everybody they can't do business a certain way, even though playing free to play games or pay to win servers is completely optional.
I assume you're referring to whether the bearing down on us is for good reason? If so, then I say it's not for good reason.
I'm not sure what you mean in your second statement, as FDA is the Food and Drug Administration.
Yes, the FDA is preventing people from just gaining a profit at the expense of others while Mojang is preventing people from buying their way into a game.
TLDR: Mojang get your *stuff* together. Stop complaining about Pay to win, it usually isn't and if it is just go play on another server, there are plenty out there. Hats in minecraft won't sell like hats in TF2 or Dota 2.
Should they?
When I donate to a server, I'm not "buying my way into the game." I'm contributing both to help the server and for an enhanced and/or different experience. This by no means that other people can't get what I have without good time and effort, and certainly doesn't cause a shift in balance (At least the server I'm on)
To further the debate, when you say "buying your way into the game" are you referring to all servers, survival servers, pvp servers, or Survival Games servers?
Why not?
The server community essentially is a collection of different communities that all want to play their way. If the majority of servers are P2W currently (and honestly, I think we disagree on what exactly P2W is), then wouldn't it stand to reason that the majority of the community is supporting that style of play? If there is a large enough group of people that dislike this style of play, they will create their own community over time and as such create their own play style.
Who's to say either is wrong as long as both are enjoying themselves?
Most servers need to be "pay to win" to exist. So while most people would obviously prefer to not need to pay for things on a server, that's just not how it works. Massive, expensive servers that so many like to play on will be gone before giving away their services for free. Why? Because they can't be expected to maintain these huge servers out of the goodness of their hearts.
I believe those are fine.
All servers........
Okay I'm beginning to lose steam as everyone seems to be turning against the EULA completely.
Is there no possibility that eradicating p2w will not help the community in the long run? Assuming every server with owners with good intentions somehow adapt and pull through?
The problem is it's not just pay to win that's being eradicated. It's perfectly fair use of donation perks. Even the kindest, most player-friendly servers need to live somehow, and Mojang is calling all their methods pay to win. So while there may be some toxic pay-to-win hardcore pvp-with-your-wallet servers out there, plenty of good servers live off of perfectly fair--but beneficial to gameplay--donations. So there is a difference that Mojang is not paying attention to. Let the players decide how much "pay to win" is too much for them and they can avoid these servers.
In the end...... time will show the true aftermath.