3.No matter which side Mojang chooses, people will still want the other,because they don't fully understand whats going on.
4.THE ONLY SERVERS THAT GO DOWN ARE ONES SELLING IN GAME ITEMS!(IE:Diamond Stuff), big servers such as the Hive, Mineplex, or any other servers that aren't selling stuff like this will not be affected
Again, as stated above, we aren't going to lose those servers. Hypixel actually said that these changes won't affect them. Its about time for Mojang to take a stand and say to the servers that exploit the community to pack up and go far, far away.
So you're saying that we should have the right to sell part of a game that players already own?
No, we don't have the rights to sell Mojang's property, and as it should be. Everyone here is drawing a grey line between hardware and software, and who owns what.
If I run Minecraft on my computer, the computer is mine, the software product (Minecraft) is Mojangs. If I run a server, the same applies. I can do whatever I like with the computer, and no-one can tell me off. I can throw it off a cliff, or I could load other peoples software onto it when bound by their terms and conditions (hint, EULA). When people donate to a server, people donate for the hardware, not the software. Anything that they obtain from that software package is just a added bonus, Mojang isn't losing any money, and we can keep our servers online. In that case, everyone is happy.
On the same point though, there are the people out there who are just too damn greedy, and just want to sell off someone elses product (items within the Minecraft implementation itself, that is Mojang's interpretation and idea). They haven't implemented a solution themselves, and the ideas aren't theirs. They are Mojangs. (KitPVP servers are a prime example of this).
Plugins/mods should also be treated equally. When people donate to a plugin author or they use a adf.ly link, they are giving that money because of the effort, time, and programming that went into the mod, not Minecraft specifically. My mod is not Mojangs, I coded it, its mine, I can do what I like with it (in the bounds of the law, of course). Sure, it requires Minecraft to run, but thats two software packages working together, not one owning the other.
I kinda think you have no idea whats going on here, seriously.
Ok since I am very young so please dont yell at me if I make any mistakes in this but so what they're saying in all and all that we can't use the game at all in a commercial way that meaning no advertising for the big servers to attract more players to donate.
Also I'd like to ask the EULA states that we can't use anything they made but if we get a custom plugin and use what's in that instead thus building upon the game would that still mean we're are violating the EULA or not? thanks
Ok since I am very young so please dont yell at me if I make any mistakes in this but so what they're saying in all and all that we can't use the game at all in a commercial way that meaning no advertising for the big servers to attract more players to donate.
Also I'd like to ask the EULA states that we can't use anything they made but if we get a custom plugin and use what's in that instead thus building upon the game would that still mean we're are violating the EULA or not? thanks
We still can do commercial activities, I believe, but its claimed that we can no longer make money from the servers. however, we still can show advertisements etc. There isn't anything wrong with custom plugins either, just you can't make money off them.
Oh no! Notch mentions some people are breaking Mojangs EULA which has been in place for years? What a monster! Minecraft is ruined! All of the great servers will go down!
So what ? The size of a mafia doesn't make it any less illegal. At best it shows how much change is needed for things to get right.
Also "MCPVP: THE Minecraft PVP Server Community", really ?
That name already is illegal per the 'Brand and Assets Guidelines' given by the EULA.
Just to remind some people, mods/plugins have a specific section in the EULA,
I seriously agree to protesting this. Owning a server is expensive and takes tons of work/dedication. Paying for advertising, hosting, and other things that goes along with it really adds up. It shouldn't be a problem if people are going to willingly DONATE to a server they enjoy and would like to see around for a long time.
"for advertising"...is that the service you provide to your users ? ads ?
There is nothing against donating. It isn't concerned by the current terms of the EULA too.
By the way, donation is always out of free will, devoid of any contract or legal attachment.
Though I can't see people donate to receive more ads.
There is also nothing against selling your own self-made content in a store, like pictures, musics, tshirts...
There is also nothing against selling your own self-made content in a store, like pictures, musics, tshirts...
Like a plugin? Why shouldn't we be able to monetize that? We made it, so why can't we sell it? Sure, its against the Mojang EULA, but I can't put 2 and 2 together here. If we were selling a part of Minecraft, thats unreasonable, but if we are selling a game-changing mechanic that we developed, for which we own the ideas for, why can't we?
Like a plugin? Why shouldn't we be able to monetize that? We made it, so why can't we sell it? Sure, its against the Mojang EULA, but I can't put 2 and 2 together here. If we were selling a part of Minecraft, thats unreasonable, but if we are selling a game-changing mechanic that we developed, for which we own the ideas for, why can't we?
And this is the issue.
The issue is not that ppl will have to change how they do things, the issue is that this whole things has been handled very poorly and what the community needs is clear and concise guidelines in the EULA that detail what is acceptable and what is not.
Mojang should seriously consider hiring a professional PR department, cause their staffs interaction with the community on this has not only been misleading, but just as uninformative as the current EULA.
None of this really matters tho because an official unofficial statement has been made that they are already working on clearing all this up. They just have to make concrete decisions and then let us know whats up. This is already in the works and we just have to wait.
Since Mojang changed the EULA, we're forced to accept their EULA before running a server. The most important rule is: You're not allowed to earn money in any way with Minecraft. This doesn't make any sense at all and it also destroys the community. Let me explain that last thing:
Server owners will stop running servers because they're not allowed to earn money with it, so they can't pay the bills and developers. Minecraft artists, who make parodys, drawings and more, aren't allowed to sell their work as it's using Minecrafts content. Mojang has to change this, or it'll destroy the game and its community.
As some have said, this thread was essentially "won" by Rakanoth. Everyone who has posted after stating they are signing the petition probably simply haven't read any of his posts.
This entire thing has, as with a lot of things these days, been blown totally out of proportion. No, this is not the end of Minecraft servers, no this is not the end of youtube videos, mod makers, plugin coders, or any other major community things, with the ONE EXCEPTION of those who make very blatantly p2w servers. Some are made as traps specifically to profit off of children who are willing to steal their parent's credit cards. I can't help but feel sorry for parents who had hundreds of dollars wasted on some obligatory "God" rank. They may or may not have been able to suffer the loss, and there's nothing saying the server owners are going to let them get it back.
In fact, the weird thing about this is, as many people have said, the EULA has ALWAYS been there. In fact, this new modification is actually a BETTER alternative than them, you know, ACTUALLY ENFORCING THE TERMS THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE FOR(AT LEAST) MANY MONTHS.
We have yet to see the extent of the changes, but I'm more than okay with them(in support, even) as long as they only target the greedy server owners trying to scam little kids out of their cash. Yes their jobs may be on the line, but, again, as many have said, if they can't find any alternative income aside from scamming the kids, then that's pathetic.
Of course, I suppose this entire p2w server deal is somewhat the fault of the community.
Quote from an Extra Credits episode(sort of altered because I can't remember perfectly):
"As long as gamers show that they will buy every the $70 monocles game developers are selling, they will continue to sell overpriced $70 monocles(discussing EVE microtransactions)"
As a community, we've shown that we are more than willing to purchase every diamond gear or rank that the server owners provide, OF COURSE more servers with more expensive ranks are going to pop up. Sure, there are plenty of people who take a huge stace against pay to win, but from the way those servers thrive, I've become certain that this can safely be described with "silent majority, vocal minority".
But I digress. TL;DR: This isn't going to bring down your precious Hypixel, it isn't going to bring down FTB, and it isn't going to kill your dog. It will, at most, target those who scam kids. AND the EULA has always been there, and if they actually started enforcing it THEN we would have cause for worry. The entire issue has been blown out of proportion.
I purchased minecraft in Pre-alpha, and when I purchased it nowhere in the terms and conditions did it say they'd force me to accept a EULA later on. I have never clicked accept to the EULA and I am not going to update my minecraft and click accept to it. Those terms are ridiculous and I'm not going to accept something I was never informed of when I bought the game. (And no, these EULA terms were not around in pre-alpha, so bugger off)
The new EULA doesn't really effect me, except the fact that many servers live off of donations. Those servers could soon be dead, unless the admins get a life.
When people donate to a server, people donate for the hardware, not the software. Anything that they obtain from that software package is just a added bonus, Mojang isn't losing any money, and we can keep our servers online. In that case, everyone is happy.
Seriously? I respected your comment before you said this. If you pay for a service and you receive a benefit in return, monetary or not, its not donating, it's purchasing. Giving money to a server for benefits in return on the server is paying to receive a product or service, which is not donating - and it's not some added bonus either. People seriously keep on benefitting off of Mojang's work, because THEY own the server, not you - and when you get money off of something THEY own and they get NONE, it really is messed up. That's why they are enforcing the new EULA in the first place.
So what ? The size of a mafia doesn't make it any less illegal. At best it shows how much change is needed for things to get right.
Also "MCPVP: THE Minecraft PVP Server Community", really ?
That name already is illegal per the 'Brand and Assets Guidelines' given by the EULA.
Just to remind some people, mods/plugins have a specific section in the EULA,
So: must be new content, no selling, Mojang can copy and distribute it for free if they want, and prosecute anyone in return if people who suffered would attack Mojang. (The latter being the reason why Mojang began to rethink the EULA, according to some sources)
No, that rule isn't new, more likely two years old at least.
And Youtube videos on the guidelines,
Pretty self-explanatory.
"for advertising"...is that the service you provide to your users ? ads ?
There is nothing against donating. It isn't concerned by the current terms of the EULA too.
By the way, donation is always out of free will, devoid of any contract or legal attachment.
Though I can't see people donate to receive more ads.
There is also nothing against selling your own self-made content in a store, like pictures, musics, tshirts...
I don't see what you're trying to argue here. I know that server stores are against the rules - but the whole point of this thread was to petition that.
As some have said, this thread was essentially "won" by Rakanoth. Everyone who has posted after stating they are signing the petition probably simply haven't read any of his posts.
This entire thing has, as with a lot of things these days, been blown totally out of proportion. No, this is not the end of Minecraft servers, no this is not the end of youtube videos, mod makers, plugin coders, or any other major community things, with the ONE EXCEPTION of those who make very blatantly p2w servers. Some are made as traps specifically to profit off of children who are willing to steal their parent's credit cards. I can't help but feel sorry for parents who had hundreds of dollars wasted on some obligatory "God" rank. They may or may not have been able to suffer the loss, and there's nothing saying the server owners are going to let them get it back.
In fact, the weird thing about this is, as many people have said, the EULA has ALWAYS been there. In fact, this new modification is actually a BETTER alternative than them, you know, ACTUALLY ENFORCING THE TERMS THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE FOR(AT LEAST) MANY MONTHS.
We have yet to see the extent of the changes, but I'm more than okay with them(in support, even) as long as they only target the greedy server owners trying to scam little kids out of their cash. Yes their jobs may be on the line, but, again, as many have said, if they can't find any alternative income aside from scamming the kids, then that's pathetic.
Of course, I suppose this entire p2w server deal is somewhat the fault of the community.
Quote from an Extra Credits episode(sort of altered because I can't remember perfectly):
"As long as gamers show that they will buy every the $70 monocles game developers are selling, they will continue to sell overpriced $70 monocles(discussing EVE microtransactions)"
As a community, we've shown that we are more than willing to purchase every diamond gear or rank that the server owners provide, OF COURSE more servers with more expensive ranks are going to pop up. Sure, there are plenty of people who take a huge stace against pay to win, but from the way those servers thrive, I've become certain that this can safely be described with "silent majority, vocal minority".
But I digress. TL;DR: This isn't going to bring down your precious Hypixel, it isn't going to bring down FTB, and it isn't going to kill your dog. It will, at most, target those who scam kids. AND the EULA has always been there, and if they actually started enforcing it THEN we would have cause for worry. The entire issue has been blown out of proportion.
This is a petition with how Mojang has handled the issue. Sure, I bet no one likes scam servers. But, as written the EULA states that Hypixel and any servers that contain stores are against their terms of use. "try to make money from anything we‘ve made". Erik made it clear that anything that comes from Minecraft or a plugin that is given as a gift for donating/purchases is illegal. I do not believe that this is right because it will bring down many major servers of which supply jobs, provide entertainment for players, provide content for youtubers, and keep the mini-games community active. If you don't like a server that is play-to-win just don't play it and let the rest of us make our own choices.
There's no way in heck Mojang didn't already have this in the EULA already. Maybe it was worded poorly, but I'm sure it was already there somehow. Minecraft is their business, their product, their livelihood, not the fans.
People that say that this has been in their EULA doesn't mean jack shi**. Excuse my language, but Mojang has been allowing this for over 3 years with not a single peep. This isn't their product, we make our own products off of their platform (plugins) just like they made Minecraft off of Oracle's platform (Java).
Mojang even allowed server owners to publicly purchase Minecon booths and didn't say , If they put it in their EULA and didn't enforce it, let it run for 3 years solid and then come with a god damn wrecking ball.
This is a petition with how Mojang has handled the issue. Sure, I bet no one likes scam servers. But, as written the EULA states that Hypixel and any servers that contain stores are against their terms of use. "try to make money from anything we‘ve made". Erik made it clear that anything that comes from Minecraft or a plugin that is given as a gift for donating/purchases is illegal. I do not believe that this is right because it will bring down many major servers of which supply jobs, provide entertainment for players, provide content for youtubers, and keep the mini-games community active. If you don't like a server that is play-to-win just don't play it and let the rest of us make our own choices.
What Erik said seems to contradict what others are saying... Mojang is already compromising and people are saying that compromised or approved of Hypixel..... Your arguments really don't lead anywhere legally or morally that counter's Mojang's position..
So yes, they are being lenient enough,
Do you support those servers selling "perks" that are basically Mojang's property (like diamonds) for hundreds and even thousands of dollars?
Are you willing to understand the opposing side or did you just come here to post your 2 cents?
What Erik said seems to contradict what others are saying... Mojang is already compromising and people are saying that compromised or approved of Hypixel..... Your arguments really don't lead anywhere legally or morally that counter's Mojang's position..
So yes, they are being lenient enough,
Do you support those servers selling "perks" that are basically Mojang's property (like diamonds) for hundreds and even thousands of dollars?
I purchased minecraft in Pre-alpha, and when I purchased it nowhere in the terms and conditions did it say they'd force me to accept a EULA later on. I have never clicked accept to the EULA and I am not going to update my minecraft and click accept to it. Those terms are ridiculous and I'm not going to accept something I was never informed of when I bought the game. (And no, these EULA terms were not around in pre-alpha, so bugger off)
If you've ever updated your client, you implicitly agree to the terms of its use. Claiming what is essentially a "hack" to exempt yourself from the EULA is laughable and no judge would ever side with you.
This is a petition with how Mojang has handled the issue. Sure, I bet no one likes scam servers. But, as written the EULA states that Hypixel and any servers that contain stores are against their terms of use. "try to make money from anything we‘ve made". Erik made it clear that anything that comes from Minecraft or a plugin that is given as a gift for donating/purchases is illegal. I do not believe that this is right because it will bring down many major servers of which supply jobs, provide entertainment for players, provide content for youtubers, and keep the mini-games community active. If you don't like a server that is play-to-win just don't play it and let the rest of us make our own choices.
Just don't play it - seen that argument before. Did you read my post a few pages back about how these servers manipulate the vote on ranking sites? Unless you want to play on a dead server, where they *can't* charge for anything yet otherwise people just walk away, you're more or less forced to play on a big pay to win server. Alternative options are minimal and shrinking, so I'd appreciate it if you would recognize how badly pay to win has corrupted the pool of choices.
People that say that this has been in their EULA doesn't mean jack shi**. Excuse my language, but Mojang has been allowing this for over 3 years with not a single peep. This isn't their product, we make our own products off of their platform (plugins) just like they made Minecraft off of Oracle's platform (Java).
Mojang even allowed server owners to publicly purchase Minecon booths and didn't say , If they put it in their EULA and didn't enforce it, let it run for 3 years solid and then come with a god damn wrecking ball.
My server bill is over $200 USD a month.
But it does mean something - it's the law, and they are free to enforce it if they like. You assumed the risks of starting a server violating the TOS, be thankful that you were able to exploit it as long as you have. It is their product, and derivative works are covered in the EULA. All of it is valid under western copyright laws. Keep whining, it doesn't change reality.
Agreed - there is way too much lack of knowledge about the concept by many people who play on the servers, and those who complain about them.
Again, as stated above, we aren't going to lose those servers. Hypixel actually said that these changes won't affect them. Its about time for Mojang to take a stand and say to the servers that exploit the community to pack up and go far, far away.
No, we don't have the rights to sell Mojang's property, and as it should be. Everyone here is drawing a grey line between hardware and software, and who owns what.
If I run Minecraft on my computer, the computer is mine, the software product (Minecraft) is Mojangs. If I run a server, the same applies. I can do whatever I like with the computer, and no-one can tell me off. I can throw it off a cliff, or I could load other peoples software onto it when bound by their terms and conditions (hint, EULA). When people donate to a server, people donate for the hardware, not the software. Anything that they obtain from that software package is just a added bonus, Mojang isn't losing any money, and we can keep our servers online. In that case, everyone is happy.
On the same point though, there are the people out there who are just too damn greedy, and just want to sell off someone elses product (items within the Minecraft implementation itself, that is Mojang's interpretation and idea). They haven't implemented a solution themselves, and the ideas aren't theirs. They are Mojangs. (KitPVP servers are a prime example of this).
Plugins/mods should also be treated equally. When people donate to a plugin author or they use a adf.ly link, they are giving that money because of the effort, time, and programming that went into the mod, not Minecraft specifically. My mod is not Mojangs, I coded it, its mine, I can do what I like with it (in the bounds of the law, of course). Sure, it requires Minecraft to run, but thats two software packages working together, not one owning the other.
I kinda think you have no idea whats going on here, seriously.
Also I'd like to ask the EULA states that we can't use anything they made but if we get a custom plugin and use what's in that instead thus building upon the game would that still mean we're are violating the EULA or not? thanks
We still can do commercial activities, I believe, but its claimed that we can no longer make money from the servers. however, we still can show advertisements etc. There isn't anything wrong with custom plugins either, just you can't make money off them.
So what ? The size of a mafia doesn't make it any less illegal. At best it shows how much change is needed for things to get right.
Also "MCPVP: THE Minecraft PVP Server Community", really ?
That name already is illegal per the 'Brand and Assets Guidelines' given by the EULA.
Just to remind some people, mods/plugins have a specific section in the EULA,
"for advertising"...is that the service you provide to your users ? ads ?
There is nothing against donating. It isn't concerned by the current terms of the EULA too.
By the way, donation is always out of free will, devoid of any contract or legal attachment.
Though I can't see people donate to receive more ads.
There is also nothing against selling your own self-made content in a store, like pictures, musics, tshirts...
Like a plugin? Why shouldn't we be able to monetize that? We made it, so why can't we sell it? Sure, its against the Mojang EULA, but I can't put 2 and 2 together here. If we were selling a part of Minecraft, thats unreasonable, but if we are selling a game-changing mechanic that we developed, for which we own the ideas for, why can't we?
And this is the issue.
The issue is not that ppl will have to change how they do things, the issue is that this whole things has been handled very poorly and what the community needs is clear and concise guidelines in the EULA that detail what is acceptable and what is not.
Mojang should seriously consider hiring a professional PR department, cause their staffs interaction with the community on this has not only been misleading, but just as uninformative as the current EULA.
None of this really matters tho because an official unofficial statement has been made that they are already working on clearing all this up. They just have to make concrete decisions and then let us know whats up. This is already in the works and we just have to wait.
I will continue to run my server. I didn't make any money off of it to begin with, and I am the plugin dev.
Check out my PocketMine plugins!
This entire thing has, as with a lot of things these days, been blown totally out of proportion. No, this is not the end of Minecraft servers, no this is not the end of youtube videos, mod makers, plugin coders, or any other major community things, with the ONE EXCEPTION of those who make very blatantly p2w servers. Some are made as traps specifically to profit off of children who are willing to steal their parent's credit cards. I can't help but feel sorry for parents who had hundreds of dollars wasted on some obligatory "God" rank. They may or may not have been able to suffer the loss, and there's nothing saying the server owners are going to let them get it back.
In fact, the weird thing about this is, as many people have said, the EULA has ALWAYS been there. In fact, this new modification is actually a BETTER alternative than them, you know, ACTUALLY ENFORCING THE TERMS THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE FOR(AT LEAST) MANY MONTHS.
We have yet to see the extent of the changes, but I'm more than okay with them(in support, even) as long as they only target the greedy server owners trying to scam little kids out of their cash. Yes their jobs may be on the line, but, again, as many have said, if they can't find any alternative income aside from scamming the kids, then that's pathetic.
Of course, I suppose this entire p2w server deal is somewhat the fault of the community.
Quote from an Extra Credits episode(sort of altered because I can't remember perfectly):
"As long as gamers show that they will buy every the $70 monocles game developers are selling, they will continue to sell overpriced $70 monocles(discussing EVE microtransactions)"
As a community, we've shown that we are more than willing to purchase every diamond gear or rank that the server owners provide, OF COURSE more servers with more expensive ranks are going to pop up. Sure, there are plenty of people who take a huge stace against pay to win, but from the way those servers thrive, I've become certain that this can safely be described with "silent majority, vocal minority".
But I digress. TL;DR: This isn't going to bring down your precious Hypixel, it isn't going to bring down FTB, and it isn't going to kill your dog. It will, at most, target those who scam kids. AND the EULA has always been there, and if they actually started enforcing it THEN we would have cause for worry. The entire issue has been blown out of proportion.
Check out my bad CTM map reviews here.
gg dice
Seriously? I respected your comment before you said this. If you pay for a service and you receive a benefit in return, monetary or not, its not donating, it's purchasing. Giving money to a server for benefits in return on the server is paying to receive a product or service, which is not donating - and it's not some added bonus either. People seriously keep on benefitting off of Mojang's work, because THEY own the server, not you - and when you get money off of something THEY own and they get NONE, it really is messed up. That's why they are enforcing the new EULA in the first place.
Check out my PocketMine plugins!
I don't see what you're trying to argue here. I know that server stores are against the rules - but the whole point of this thread was to petition that.
As written, all servers that have stores are illegal. Therefore almost all notable servers will go down because they have a store.
This is a petition with how Mojang has handled the issue. Sure, I bet no one likes scam servers. But, as written the EULA states that Hypixel and any servers that contain stores are against their terms of use. "try to make money from anything we‘ve made". Erik made it clear that anything that comes from Minecraft or a plugin that is given as a gift for donating/purchases is illegal. I do not believe that this is right because it will bring down many major servers of which supply jobs, provide entertainment for players, provide content for youtubers, and keep the mini-games community active. If you don't like a server that is play-to-win just don't play it and let the rest of us make our own choices.
People that say that this has been in their EULA doesn't mean jack shi**. Excuse my language, but Mojang has been allowing this for over 3 years with not a single peep. This isn't their product, we make our own products off of their platform (plugins) just like they made Minecraft off of Oracle's platform (Java).
Mojang even allowed server owners to publicly purchase Minecon booths and didn't say , If they put it in their EULA and didn't enforce it, let it run for 3 years solid and then come with a god damn wrecking ball.
My server bill is over $200 USD a month.
Are you willing to understand the opposing side or did you just come here to post your 2 cents?
What Erik said seems to contradict what others are saying... Mojang is already compromising and people are saying that compromised or approved of Hypixel..... Your arguments really don't lead anywhere legally or morally that counter's Mojang's position..
So yes, they are being lenient enough,
Do you support those servers selling "perks" that are basically Mojang's property (like diamonds) for hundreds and even thousands of dollars?
No, I don't.
Check out my PocketMine plugins!
If you've ever updated your client, you implicitly agree to the terms of its use. Claiming what is essentially a "hack" to exempt yourself from the EULA is laughable and no judge would ever side with you.
Just don't play it - seen that argument before. Did you read my post a few pages back about how these servers manipulate the vote on ranking sites? Unless you want to play on a dead server, where they *can't* charge for anything yet otherwise people just walk away, you're more or less forced to play on a big pay to win server. Alternative options are minimal and shrinking, so I'd appreciate it if you would recognize how badly pay to win has corrupted the pool of choices.
But it does mean something - it's the law, and they are free to enforce it if they like. You assumed the risks of starting a server violating the TOS, be thankful that you were able to exploit it as long as you have. It is their product, and derivative works are covered in the EULA. All of it is valid under western copyright laws. Keep whining, it doesn't change reality.