@the_cracked_anvil - I understand your pain at that, but griefing at the host is not the way to solve the problem. It just adds to it and feeds reinforcement to the perpetrator(he in turn becomes the "victim". I would ask him why he did that and to return the diamonds. Then depending on his reaction I would either stay and be friends or leave the game and never return to his server and block him from mine.
i never did grief their world. i was just using as an example of when i would let it slide. but i agree, 2 wrongs don't make a right
I don't see it as bullying. It's in the game as a legitimate (but annoying...) tactic. Especially on pvp worlds, it's just part of the game. It's equivalent to getting upset about getting shot in a first person shooter...that's kinda the point. The other person is just playing the game, and you just happened to be the current target. In a world where you remove and place blocks...that's kinda the point. If you don't want to get killed, don't play a killing game. If you don't want to get griefed, don't join a world where it's possible.
*sigh* I don't see Minecraft as a "killing" game except for mobs. You CAN use minecraft in a survival with other people to survive and NOT kill each other. It's "kinda of the point" in minecraft multiplayer as I see to band together with your friends to survive the hostile mobs. To classify Minecraft as a "killing game" like a first person shooter is wrong IMO. Minecraft is not a first person shooter. It is a survival against the elements(mob) game foremost. Of course that is what brought me to Minecraft in the first place. I would not own a "killing" game first person shooter only. Minecraft has the appeal to be creative(like Lego's) and to work cooperatively with others.
In a world that is designated PVP and note that it has it's own designation and someone should ask when joining a server if it is PVP....I agree griefing is expected and legitimate for those worlds . I have even seen Youtube videos, where friends do have worlds that have PVP games ONLY so they can grief each other there and not on their regular worlds. My point is on worlds that it is NOT PVP and I see more worlds that are not PVP then are, griefing is NOT acceptable and amounts to bullying of other people if you join that world just to grief. If you want to be a griefer...make sure you join a world that is PVP so you can grief to your hearts content. Don't join a world and grief before asking if it is a PVP world. It is one of the reasons, I don't join a multiplayer game is because of the people that join and automatically start griefing before having the courtesy to ask what is expected of them.
So let me restate my views here (and note that it is my view)....
Griefing is NOT a legitimate tactic generally on Minecraft.
Always ask when joining a world if it is a PVP world or not and if griefing is allowed.
If you grief on a non-PVP world or before even asking what is expected on that world...that is bullying. Bullies have no manners and/or try to provoke a reaction.
Griefing on a PVP is acceptable, because it is what is expected so I agree on there, griefing can be legitimate.
Even my nephew has the courtesy to ask if he can blow something up in my world, if he is poking around in my world to see what I have done with it. And he is only 8.
@the_cracked_anvil
I am glad to hear that. It is tempting to react like that I agree, but you would be falling into the bully's trap and he would claim to be the victim instead. Then things would snowball from there. Unfortunately Bullies are everywhere nowadays. Even as adults, bullies are in the workplace....although adults don't call them that, they attempt to do the same thing, get a reaction from the victim, and unfortunately bullies in the workplace can have more dire consequences for the victim.
Yea been trying that but too much life stuff keeps pulling people away so I try to invite new people. Life stuff like someone gets deployed, taking 18credit hours plus work, divorce, having kids, going back to school at night and most significantly the majority of people I like to play with that have left left because of griefing.
Yes, I suspected that is exactly what you're trying to do. It seems more than ever these days to maintain close friendships (sigh).
Perhaps just invite the ones you'd like to play with back to a more exclusive 24/7 server? If one more griefing on the old server is going to cause you to shut it down anyway and everyone will lose out... why not shut it down before that happens, clear (unfriend) the riffraff and "uncertains" from your friends list and start it or another world up just with a smaller list of friends (a whitelist server)?
I know it's not ideal, but it might take some of the stress off you until 4J and Mojang wake up to the problem and add some more griefing protections into the game.
Yes, I suspected that is exactly what you're trying to do. It seems more than ever these days to maintain close friendships (sigh).
Perhaps just invite the ones you'd like to play with back to a more exclusive 24/7 server? If one more griefing on the old server is going to cause you to shut it down anyway and everyone will lose out... why not shut it down before that happens, clear (unfriend) the riffraff and "uncertains" from your friends list and start it or another world up just with a smaller list of friends (a whitelist server)?
I know it's not ideal, but it might take some of the stress off you until 4J and Mojang wake up to the problem and add some more griefing protections into the game.
I tried exclusive trusted servers etc. The reason I have left the 24/7 server on is because a lot of people have put a lot of work into it. So it may be on for months. Already paid for a year for xbox live and still have 6 months left on that. I have been on the trajectory of dumping minecraft out of my life for months. I'm an all or nothing kind of player. And if I'm not playing minecraft then I really probably won't even have game consoles at all. Fortunately it's a good time to get out with new consoles coming anyway.
I tried exclusive trusted servers etc. The reason I have left the 24/7 server on is because a lot of people have put a lot of work into it. So it may be on for months. Already paid for a year for xbox live and still have 6 months left on that. I have been on the trajectory of dumping minecraft out of my life for months. I'm an all or nothing kind of player. And if I'm not playing minecraft then I really probably won't even have game consoles at all. Fortunately it's a good time to get out with new consoles coming anyway.
This is a much simpler question with a much simpler answer than most people are giving it.
Is griefing cyber bullying? Yes.
If you're playing on a server where it is allowed and encouraged, then fine it isn't really bullying. It's a part of that worlds gameplay choices and is actively practiced with all members having foreknowledge that it can and will happen. Some people even enjoy these kinds of servers.
However, if you join someones world be it friend, the friend of a friend, a stranger, whatever you want to call them and you specifically attempt to grief someone, you're being a bully. It shouldn't matter whether it's the "real world" or a "video game". You are engaging in an unkind action towards another person. It shouldn't matter whether that takes place in a video game, on Facebook, or face to face. You are bullying them.
I stood up for plenty of people who have been bullied. The only reason it's a lot worse over the internet and video games is because there isn't really anything you can do to defend yourself. Sure you can band them, block them, etc, but that doesn't matter. They don't care. They got their rocks off on ruining your day.
It's plain and simple. If you derive enjoyment out of ruining someones day, someones fun, or just enjoy the general suffering of others by your hands, you are a bully. It doesn't matter if you do it across the internet, in a video game, or face to face with someone out in the world. The only thing I can hope is that Karma sees fit to one day return the favor you so readily dealt to others.
(Yes I realize that wasn't really a simple answer. I don't really care though. I dislike those that bully so my answer became somewhat long-winded.)
Well griefing has finally killed multiplayer minecraft for me. I was running 3 Xboxes. Got rid of one (xbox live gold ran out) about 2 or 3 weeks ago. Still running a 24/7 server that I don't even play on anymore and absolutely nobody else is welcome; only 22 players left on this server. If we have another major griefing incident then I'm just going to cut it off. The other xbox I play solo on but honestly I don't enjoy any solo games as much as multiplayer so that will likely not last. You can see my signature for my permanent opinion of minecraft multiplayer.
It still astonishes me that such a major issue that has been an issue for years (even worse on PC I hear) has still not been addressed sufficiently. There are several tools that could be added that would at least help address the issue.
As I have strong feelings on griefing and bullying I'll chime in here as well. Is griefing in MC a form of bullying-Yes imo. I agree wholeheartidly with Baldur and Mustache_Guy.
That being said, there are a plethera of mods and plugins for PC server owners to use to protect against griefing such as worldguard. This is why I quit playing your server on the Xbox and switched to the PC. With a few button clicks all the damage is reversed and the player is banned. If the server op is good, they'll use a ban service like Mcbans or something and flag them as a griefer, warning other server operaters to avoid allowing this player into their games. I cant even remeber the amount of people I've seen complaining they couldn't access most servers because of a previous ban. Makes me laugh. Its the closest thing to a real consequence you will find in MC.
Is cyber bullying the same as griefing? Well, I'll just say that dictionaries can have warped definitions of words.
However, it really depends on the intent and severity of the griefing. Just removing one block from a house is not really a big problem. Annoying, maybe. And it shouldn't be repeated.
However, when you're actively destroying someone's builds for a psychological reaction, that's cyber bullying, repeated or not. Griefing is not funny. It's not okay. Anyone who tries using the "just virtual blocks" argument is an idiot.
Let's delete some of your music, pictures, and games from your computer. After all, they're just a bunch of virtual files stored on your computer, right?
It is bullying. When I was in kindergarten, I was building a nice castle out of blocks, then some bigger kid waited until I was neary done .. then knocked over my creation. He laughed, and I cried.
It is YOUR fault if you get greifed because you made it an online game P.S. If you let random people in your world it is YOUR fault if you get greifed. A way to prevent losing anything is before you invite people to your game save your hard work. BTW their is an option to take away everyone's privledge, but when there greifing you take away his/her privledges or just the mining one. I hope I helped some of you.
The answer to the topic is yes/no because if they write on a sign something mean (there is a loophole to write bad words on a sign) like "HA HA YOU ARE A ____ SO YOU ARE A FAT NOOB!" That is cyber-bullying. If they destroy your castle it is not cyber bullying, because the greifer is not cussing or making fun of you.
Video games can have cyber-bullying, but if you get "robbed" in minecraft it is nothing like being robbed in real life.
It is YOUR fault if you get greifed because you made it an online game P.S. If you let random people in your world it is YOUR fault if you get greifed. A way to prevent losing anything is before you invite people to your game save your hard work. BTW their is an option to take away everyone's privledge, but when there greifing you take away his/her privledges or just the mining one. I hope I helped some of you.
The answer to the topic is yes/no because if they write on a sign something mean (there is a loophole to write bad words on a sign) like "HA HA YOU ARE A ____ SO YOU ARE A FAT NOOB!" That is cyber-bullying. If they destroy your castle it is not cyber bullying, because the greifer is not cussing or making fun of you.
Video games can have cyber-bullying, but if you get "robbed" in minecraft it is nothing like being robbed in real life.
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To me it is bullying to grief a little kid and even your friends.There are no lols about griefing. One time I was harassed by some jerk teenager or adult and I said "stop you're harassing me I'm just a kid" and the bully said "you're just a kid? Go play with your legos.
At least it wasn't grief but I have gotten griefed before. There is one exception to griefing: a PVP server.
And why does it matter how old a kid is? You can still play with them and make friends with them.
Funny, 16 year olds think the same about 13 year olds.
This is why the internet has such a negative vibe to it. The age superiority contest is extremely stupid and anyone who thinks age is a symbol of superiority/maturity needs to be banned from the internet entirely. I'm 13 years old, and I can certainly say that I've seen 16 and 17 year olds who have the maturity of a first grader.
Back to the original post though, no, it's not cyber bullying. Cyber bullying is harassing, griefing is just stupid people who like to destroy others' hard work.
Honestly, no. I don't think greifing is cyber bullying. There's a couple reasons for this.
First off, the game mechanics allow for greifing. It's part of the game, that you're allowed to destroy other people's structures. It's not the nicest thing to do, but it's there. If they didn't want to allow it at all, they would only let you destroy your own blocks.
Second. Little kids that'd be young enough to whine about bullying when their house gets destroyed, shouldn't be playing online in the first place, it's their own fault(or the parents fault). Not to say the greifer is innocent in the matter either, but it's just a structure in an advanced lego game. No reason to get upset. Not to mention, if it's the kid's world, and the greifer was invited to it, they can just exit without saving.
The first reason is the main one for me. It's a game mechanic, even if that wasn't the intended reason for it. That'd be like someone playing CoD, and they were dying a lot, and claimed bullying because everyone was going after him. If everyone in a game wants to team up to kill a single person, that's up to them. Not the intended way to play, but they're allowed. It's not bullying.
People really need to stop being so sensitive. I mean, seriously. How is Cyber Bullying a real thing? You can literally just close the game, play something else, block people, un-invite the person, find a new server, walk away from the tv. You can pretty much do ANYTHING other than sit there and take it, and it'll stop. If someone wants to sit there and deal with it for ages, then it's their own stupidity for not leaving.
Honestly, no. I don't think greifing is cyber bullying. There's a couple reasons for this.
First off, the game mechanics allow for greifing. It's part of the game, that you're allowed to destroy other people's structures. It's not the nicest thing to do, but it's there. If they didn't want to allow it at all, they would only let you destroy your own blocks....
I have to disagree with this line of logic... that's like saying:
Network Interface Controller developers made it possible to spoof MAC addresses so that Network admins could more easily support their IP structure on their Networks, so exploiting that feature to be able to break into someone else's network to steal their bandwidth or gain access to their private systems doesn't constitute as hacking and shouldn't be considered to be illegal activity. Granted, it isn't the nicest thing to do, but it's there. If they didn't want to allow it at all, they wouldn't let you be able to spoof your MAC address.
A bit techno-geeky... but it was an analogy that is similar enough without sounding totally ridiculous.
Because a person is capable of exploiting a system (griefing), does not mean that that action does not constitute as personal or psychological harm (cyber bullying).
People really need to stop being so sensitive. I mean, seriously. How is Cyber Bullying a real thing? You can literally just close the game, play something else, block people, un-invite the person, find a new server, walk away from the tv. You can pretty much do ANYTHING other than sit there and take it, and it'll stop. If someone wants to sit there and deal with it for ages, then it's their own stupidity for not leaving.
As far as game playing goes in general... it's a gray area. Cyber-Bullying usually refers to much more personally damaging activity to ones personality and character through rumor, slander, liable, threats, harassment, etc. that is not so easily ignored as just quitting the game and turning off the system.
Personally... I never play MC online BECAUSE I don't want to deal with griefers, and there are certain players that I just don't even play on split screen with either.
Because why? It ISNT. You are in controlled worlds. This isnt open ended servers where people come and go. these people are on your friends list.
Some people are very promiscuous with who they put on their friends list. I think the lack of truly public servers, or categorization system for people they game with (to differentiate between actual friends and people you contacted to join a game) is part of the problem.
Either way, griefing is wrong because it is unwelcome hostile behavior. Just because a girl dresses up to go to a club don't mean she wants to be raped. Largely different scale of severity, but operates on the same principle of it being unwelcome hostile behavior even IF the victim could have taken precautions.
i never did grief their world. i was just using as an example of when i would let it slide. but i agree, 2 wrongs don't make a right
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*sigh* I don't see Minecraft as a "killing" game except for mobs. You CAN use minecraft in a survival with other people to survive and NOT kill each other. It's "kinda of the point" in minecraft multiplayer as I see to band together with your friends to survive the hostile mobs. To classify Minecraft as a "killing game" like a first person shooter is wrong IMO. Minecraft is not a first person shooter. It is a survival against the elements(mob) game foremost. Of course that is what brought me to Minecraft in the first place. I would not own a "killing" game first person shooter only. Minecraft has the appeal to be creative(like Lego's) and to work cooperatively with others.
In a world that is designated PVP and note that it has it's own designation and someone should ask when joining a server if it is PVP....I agree griefing is expected and legitimate for those worlds . I have even seen Youtube videos, where friends do have worlds that have PVP games ONLY so they can grief each other there and not on their regular worlds. My point is on worlds that it is NOT PVP and I see more worlds that are not PVP then are, griefing is NOT acceptable and amounts to bullying of other people if you join that world just to grief. If you want to be a griefer...make sure you join a world that is PVP so you can grief to your hearts content. Don't join a world and grief before asking if it is a PVP world. It is one of the reasons, I don't join a multiplayer game is because of the people that join and automatically start griefing before having the courtesy to ask what is expected of them.
So let me restate my views here (and note that it is my view)....
Griefing is NOT a legitimate tactic generally on Minecraft.
Always ask when joining a world if it is a PVP world or not and if griefing is allowed.
If you grief on a non-PVP world or before even asking what is expected on that world...that is bullying. Bullies have no manners and/or try to provoke a reaction.
Griefing on a PVP is acceptable, because it is what is expected so I agree on there, griefing can be legitimate.
Even my nephew has the courtesy to ask if he can blow something up in my world, if he is poking around in my world to see what I have done with it. And he is only 8.
@the_cracked_anvil
I am glad to hear that. It is tempting to react like that I agree, but you would be falling into the bully's trap and he would claim to be the victim instead. Then things would snowball from there. Unfortunately Bullies are everywhere nowadays. Even as adults, bullies are in the workplace....although adults don't call them that, they attempt to do the same thing, get a reaction from the victim, and unfortunately bullies in the workplace can have more dire consequences for the victim.
Yes, I suspected that is exactly what you're trying to do. It seems more than ever these days to maintain close friendships (sigh).
Perhaps just invite the ones you'd like to play with back to a more exclusive 24/7 server? If one more griefing on the old server is going to cause you to shut it down anyway and everyone will lose out... why not shut it down before that happens, clear (unfriend) the riffraff and "uncertains" from your friends list and start it or another world up just with a smaller list of friends (a whitelist server)?
I know it's not ideal, but it might take some of the stress off you until 4J and Mojang wake up to the problem and add some more griefing protections into the game.
I tried exclusive trusted servers etc. The reason I have left the 24/7 server on is because a lot of people have put a lot of work into it. So it may be on for months. Already paid for a year for xbox live and still have 6 months left on that. I have been on the trajectory of dumping minecraft out of my life for months. I'm an all or nothing kind of player. And if I'm not playing minecraft then I really probably won't even have game consoles at all. Fortunately it's a good time to get out with new consoles coming anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/user/IAMBaldur/feed
Sorry to hear that.
Is griefing cyber bullying? Yes.
If you're playing on a server where it is allowed and encouraged, then fine it isn't really bullying. It's a part of that worlds gameplay choices and is actively practiced with all members having foreknowledge that it can and will happen. Some people even enjoy these kinds of servers.
However, if you join someones world be it friend, the friend of a friend, a stranger, whatever you want to call them and you specifically attempt to grief someone, you're being a bully. It shouldn't matter whether it's the "real world" or a "video game". You are engaging in an unkind action towards another person. It shouldn't matter whether that takes place in a video game, on Facebook, or face to face. You are bullying them.
I stood up for plenty of people who have been bullied. The only reason it's a lot worse over the internet and video games is because there isn't really anything you can do to defend yourself. Sure you can band them, block them, etc, but that doesn't matter. They don't care. They got their rocks off on ruining your day.
It's plain and simple. If you derive enjoyment out of ruining someones day, someones fun, or just enjoy the general suffering of others by your hands, you are a bully. It doesn't matter if you do it across the internet, in a video game, or face to face with someone out in the world. The only thing I can hope is that Karma sees fit to one day return the favor you so readily dealt to others.
(Yes I realize that wasn't really a simple answer. I don't really care though. I dislike those that bully so my answer became somewhat long-winded.)
As I have strong feelings on griefing and bullying I'll chime in here as well. Is griefing in MC a form of bullying-Yes imo. I agree wholeheartidly with Baldur and Mustache_Guy.
That being said, there are a plethera of mods and plugins for PC server owners to use to protect against griefing such as worldguard. This is why I quit playing your server on the Xbox and switched to the PC. With a few button clicks all the damage is reversed and the player is banned. If the server op is good, they'll use a ban service like Mcbans or something and flag them as a griefer, warning other server operaters to avoid allowing this player into their games. I cant even remeber the amount of people I've seen complaining they couldn't access most servers because of a previous ban. Makes me laugh. Its the closest thing to a real consequence you will find in MC.
Is cyber bullying the same as griefing? Well, I'll just say that dictionaries can have warped definitions of words.
However, it really depends on the intent and severity of the griefing. Just removing one block from a house is not really a big problem. Annoying, maybe. And it shouldn't be repeated.
However, when you're actively destroying someone's builds for a psychological reaction, that's cyber bullying, repeated or not. Griefing is not funny. It's not okay. Anyone who tries using the "just virtual blocks" argument is an idiot.
Let's delete some of your music, pictures, and games from your computer. After all, they're just a bunch of virtual files stored on your computer, right?
Griefing = bullying.
This is an awfully simplistic point of view..
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At least it wasn't grief but I have gotten griefed before. There is one exception to griefing: a PVP server.
And why does it matter how old a kid is? You can still play with them and make friends with them.
This is why the internet has such a negative vibe to it. The age superiority contest is extremely stupid and anyone who thinks age is a symbol of superiority/maturity needs to be banned from the internet entirely. I'm 13 years old, and I can certainly say that I've seen 16 and 17 year olds who have the maturity of a first grader.
Back to the original post though, no, it's not cyber bullying. Cyber bullying is harassing, griefing is just stupid people who like to destroy others' hard work.
Making someone angry is harming them in a psychological way?
First off, the game mechanics allow for greifing. It's part of the game, that you're allowed to destroy other people's structures. It's not the nicest thing to do, but it's there. If they didn't want to allow it at all, they would only let you destroy your own blocks.
Second. Little kids that'd be young enough to whine about bullying when their house gets destroyed, shouldn't be playing online in the first place, it's their own fault(or the parents fault). Not to say the greifer is innocent in the matter either, but it's just a structure in an advanced lego game. No reason to get upset. Not to mention, if it's the kid's world, and the greifer was invited to it, they can just exit without saving.
The first reason is the main one for me. It's a game mechanic, even if that wasn't the intended reason for it. That'd be like someone playing CoD, and they were dying a lot, and claimed bullying because everyone was going after him. If everyone in a game wants to team up to kill a single person, that's up to them. Not the intended way to play, but they're allowed. It's not bullying.
People really need to stop being so sensitive. I mean, seriously. How is Cyber Bullying a real thing? You can literally just close the game, play something else, block people, un-invite the person, find a new server, walk away from the tv. You can pretty much do ANYTHING other than sit there and take it, and it'll stop. If someone wants to sit there and deal with it for ages, then it's their own stupidity for not leaving.
No its not. Grow a set nancy. /thread/
I have to disagree with this line of logic... that's like saying:
Network Interface Controller developers made it possible to spoof MAC addresses so that Network admins could more easily support their IP structure on their Networks, so exploiting that feature to be able to break into someone else's network to steal their bandwidth or gain access to their private systems doesn't constitute as hacking and shouldn't be considered to be illegal activity. Granted, it isn't the nicest thing to do, but it's there. If they didn't want to allow it at all, they wouldn't let you be able to spoof your MAC address.
A bit techno-geeky... but it was an analogy that is similar enough without sounding totally ridiculous.
Because a person is capable of exploiting a system (griefing), does not mean that that action does not constitute as personal or psychological harm (cyber bullying).
People really need to stop being so sensitive. I mean, seriously. How is Cyber Bullying a real thing? You can literally just close the game, play something else, block people, un-invite the person, find a new server, walk away from the tv. You can pretty much do ANYTHING other than sit there and take it, and it'll stop. If someone wants to sit there and deal with it for ages, then it's their own stupidity for not leaving.
As far as game playing goes in general... it's a gray area. Cyber-Bullying usually refers to much more personally damaging activity to ones personality and character through rumor, slander, liable, threats, harassment, etc. that is not so easily ignored as just quitting the game and turning off the system.
Personally... I never play MC online BECAUSE I don't want to deal with griefers, and there are certain players that I just don't even play on split screen with either.
It's still going because lots of people get griefed in this game and the makers don't seem to think it's important enough to do something about it.
https://www.youtube.com/user/IAMBaldur/feed
Some people are very promiscuous with who they put on their friends list. I think the lack of truly public servers, or categorization system for people they game with (to differentiate between actual friends and people you contacted to join a game) is part of the problem.
Either way, griefing is wrong because it is unwelcome hostile behavior. Just because a girl dresses up to go to a club don't mean she wants to be raped. Largely different scale of severity, but operates on the same principle of it being unwelcome hostile behavior even IF the victim could have taken precautions.