i kinda like the multi block structure idea that AkulaMak had, i am no coder but i heard another ship makinh mod maker talk about using a another diamention for the boats, this would in theory enable other mod blocks to work decantly well on boats, simply get right click position on the boat entity hitbox and translate the into cords of other diamention and access the event using a fake player on the other diamention and give the gui to the real player, forge has alot of stuff for both fake players and other diamentions(blame xcompwiz for the diamention stuff and things like computer craft and redpower for the other.!)
For simple objects like a shovel or an ax, it makes sense to construct pictorially on the crafting bench (i.e. the recipe for a shovel looks like a shovel, the recipe for an ax looks like an ax, etc.). That methodology works until the items get too large or too complex to be adequately pictorial-ized on a 3x3 or 4x4 grid.
We can stretch the paradigm for small boats, but I think larger boats are too big and too complex (have too many parts) to be described on a crafting bench.
I decided a while ago that I would have to come up with a different way to "craft" a ship. I have a working idea, but it involves several preliminary developments (mods) to get there. I don't want to go into detail now but, suffice it to say, that you won't be crafting the ship yourself -- you'll have to build facilities and collect resources for crafting a ship, and then you'll have a shipwright build it for you.
As for alternate dimensions, I'm trying to stay away from them. They would work okay for an interior that didn't have any interaction with the normal dimension (ex: you go below but can't see outside), but wouldn't work so well otherwise (ex: a gun deck).
Jeeeeeeeeez.... that was a PITA. And people wonder why I don't keep my PC totally up to date...
Started with a clean 64-bit build, and had problems with Forge and LWJGL. I keep multiple copies of Forge+MCP in case I need to go back at some point, and the Forge installer kept thinking I had a bogus version of MCP where there wasn't one. Cleaned out all my old stuff but then ran into a problem with LWJGL wanting to load a 32-bit .so instead of the 64-bit. Wound up copying LWJGL from my clean Minecraft install.
I've got an updated Forge development environment now... and all I have to do is remember which piece of code I was in the middle of changing when the old mobo spontaneously powered down...
This mod looks awesome! I hope you keep updating it as most other ship mods seem to have died. i would love to see larger ships especially if there is an opportunity for a little customization. i think the idea of building a ship yard is a viable option though maybe there should be a 'catalog' you can look through with larger ships costing more in resources and time to construct and possibly look different based on the wool colors you give the builders.
This mod looks awesome! I hope you keep updating it as most other ship mods seem to have died. i would love to see larger ships especially if there is an opportunity for a little customization. i think the idea of building a ship yard is a viable option though maybe there should be a 'catalog' you can look through with larger ships costing more in resources and time to construct and possibly look different based on the wool colors you give the builders.
Thanks, glad you like it!
What I'm working on now is a proof-of-concept mod... and so I started with the smallest (simplest) of boats, which was just an extension of the stock boat. Next came the Punt, which added animation of the sail and a working chest. I'm working on the Whitehall right now, which validates implementation of multiple passengers a few other internals. I expect to build out two more (larger) boats that add additional features, and then I'll release a single mod that includes all of them.
Ships (being defined as something "large") will be a different effort, and come later. The basic framework for implementing the ships is being perfected now, but there are other issues (gameplay and balance) that need to be addressed before I just drop a huge 3rd rate ship of the line on the Minecraft community.
Larger ships will definitely cost more and take more time to build... just think about how much raw wood goes into a 70-100 ft sailing ship. There is also quite a lot of skilled labor required (carpenters, coopers, black/redsmiths, sail makers, etc), not to mention other industrial facilities (foundries, mills). Expect to collect A LOT of resources, build several facilities, and then collect even more resources, and wait a good while, before you ship floats.
I have grandiose plans, but it will take a long time to see them realized.
Yes, finally something to replace the pesky vanilla boats with! And I really like the name of the mod And yes, please add a config file so we can change id's.
I am really looking forward to what other boats/ships you have in mind.
Thanks! A config file was added a couple of versions ago... there isn't a config file distributed with the .jar, but a new one should be created the first time the mod is loaded. If the mod loads and you still don't have a config file, let me know.
The Elegant Punt mod is Episode 197 in my Mod Review Collection
Thanks Awger for this truly Elegant mod! Keep up the awesome work.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I make Minecraft Mod videos. So, if you want help promoting your mods through videos, check out MY YOUTUBE PAGE to see my work and then send me a PM to discuss it. Also, follow me on Twitter: @piedudeaus
Great progress, as you said in future updates, by adding some kind of buoys or something you could make it so that its like a way point for creating routes that would be good also if they could show up on the map, and some how a system that allows you to click a button and it will sail the ship their via the most direct route....just ideas-but great progress brilliant mod, im spreading the word of this mod as not only is it cosmetically brilliant but not too much it doesn't fit in with the minecraft theme, it is also very useful in transporting things personally i think this mod would work great with the custom NPC mod which allows you to create traders etc, i like most transport mods but this is just amazing! and
My thoughts on auto-navigation drifted towards lighthouses and an enhanced map table for setting waypoints. Using buoys isn't a bad idea, but it tells people where you're going to be... good for finding your way, bad for pirates finding you.
Re: custom NPC mod -- this is relevant to my interests... tell me more.
The Elegant Punt mod is Episode 197 in my Mod Review Collection
Thanks Awger for this truly Elegant mod! Keep up the awesome work.
Thanks for the great vid!
You Aussies have some fine sailing traditions, and some outright psychotic racing dinghies. I thought about doing something like a Javelin (I know, NZ not Oz) but decided to stick with utility. Need to get the basics working first.
Work proceeds slowly. I'm closing in on a solution for multiple passengers, but MC keeps doing unexpected things. Quite irritating, that...
may i use this mod in a modpack?(its a private modpack for me and few friends)
Sure... but you may want to wait until a few more things are fixed (like, Punts colliding with other Punts). I've already tweaked the MP code to keep positions updated better, and I'm closing in on working passengers (I know what's broken, but I don't know why it's broken).
I'm building this as a framework, and it's an iterative effort -- meaning, the Punt is already "old code" and the latest code is in the Whitehall. When I finish up this evolution I'll have to clean things up and then rebuild the Punt using the latest stuff (not a big deal, but it needs to be done). Once that's done I'll release a new .jar that includes both the Punt and the Whitehall.
Since this was always intended for other modders to build their own boats, I expect people to use the Punt/Whitehall/etc in their own mods. The only stipulation I have is that you can't monetize it (ie sell, charge for distribution, or receive payment for my work or any derivative work). I mod because I enjoy it, not because I make money doing it. I rely on a substantial body of work done by others (Forge, MCP) that I didn't pay for, and so I don't think it's fair that I profit from their work, or that other people profit from mine.
(Yes, I know that MediaFire makes money by selling ads that people see when they download my stuff, but that keeps them in business, I don't make money from it, and I don't have to pay them for the service. The whole point is to give back to the community, not profit from it.)
Is there anyway I may get the source of this? I would really like to make my own boat for lava!
Certainly... just not yet. It's still very much a work in progress, and isn't really in a distributable state.
Also -- I was taking copious notes and writing a tutorial of sorts on how I developed the Punt. It's 26 pages long at the moment, but it was started back when Minecraft was version 1.4.2, and since then the Forge and MC source have been completely rearranged. I'll have to go back and re-write a big chunk of it. I'll also have to talk to somebody at Mojang about releasing it as a tutorial, because it does include many snippets of their code.
i dont know about anyone else but all of a sudden with the normal mc boats without the punt mod installed seems to randomly change direction....at first i did think it was the punt mod causing this but its not...is it a new bug made for the 1.4.7?-this also happens with the punt!....hmm
I haven't noticed... but, then again, I haven't been playing much lately.
My initial thought is that you're running into something? IIRC, a squid will do that...
so just after my last post i instantly came up with an idea... what if you could somehow attach a trawler net or something to the boat so when you sail it catches fish at a random rate, then you don't have to sit around waiting for fish to bite, the fish could be instantly transported to the interior chest within the boat, also, what if. you could have better nets for catching more fish etc...ik it may be going a bit off topic but just an idea... or even crab pots etc... also another idea for way point blocks that the punt can sail through but it comes up as a marker on the normal MC map...or a special nautical map...that only show water and land not biomes... and a grid section...
A fishing trawler is certainly do-able, but I don't know how it would fit in from a stylistic standpoint -- I always envisioned Minecraft as an "old world" (hence the sails). Also, catching a huge load of fish in one go might be a little un-balancing from an economic standpoint.
I like to idea of crab/lobster pots. How about oysters? One of the boats I want to build is a sharpie schooner, which was a type quite quite popular in the Chesapeake and Carolinas. Would make for a good fishing platform.
Good idea on the noClip'ed buoys, I'll make a note for that.
I understand the level of implementing this is far off, but do you have any desire of adding "lander" ships. As in a boat with a gate at the front, people would enter, they'd stand there, you'd close it off, and beach it and let people off.
This idea would be massively useful for the various NPC, warfare, and siege mods out there, allowing for naval invasions.
This coupled with ships that allow you to fire arrows or even emplaced guns (i.e. small frigate) would make this mod's potential and utility even larger.
Regardless, I love what you're doing and have in mind already, I just thought I'd make a suggestion that would add to its versatility, especially on SMP servers.
I understand the level of implementing this is far off, but do you have any desire of adding "lander" ships. As in a boat with a gate at the front, people would enter, they'd stand there, you'd close it off, and beach it and let people off.
This idea would be massively useful for the various NPC, warfare, and siege mods out there, allowing for naval invasions.
I don't know of any 17/18th century ships with front ramps... and the Vikings seemed to do just fine jumping over the side when they came ashore.
For port facilities, I plan on building a loading ramp that will attach the ship to a pier when the ship docks. Not sure how that will work yet, but it should be path-able for AIs.
This coupled with ships that allow you to fire arrows or even emplaced guns (i.e. small frigate) would make this mod's potential and utility even larger.
You mean, like this?
That's a 32 lb-er carronade next to a 32 lb-er long gun. Blocks are standard MC size (1m square). Expect to have shot, shell, chain, and grape available for dealing with the appropriate targets.
You did know you were going to have to build a foundry, yes?
Well, the idea of a front ramp was really just a thought of a practicality so the clumsy NPC pathing could manage a way. The idea of a dock/pier facility nullifies that and much improves! I'm assuming that the ships would allow you to stand freely and not have to right click and "be a passenger"?
As to the cannons, I read all the pages and didn't see that. But hell, that is really nice. Didn't see the foundry idea either, but that would be amazing. I'm assuming the foundry/forge would make things other than cannons?
Well, the idea of a front ramp was really just a thought of a practicality so the clumsy NPC pathing could manage a way. The idea of a dock/pier facility nullifies that and much improves! I'm assuming that the ships would allow you to stand freely and not have to right click and "be a passenger"?
That's the plan for larger boats and ships. For the Punt and Whitehall, there's nowhere to walk to.
I've never worked with the AI pathing but I gather it's a bit dodgy... will have to cross that bridge when I get to it.
As to the cannons, I read all the pages and didn't see that. But hell, that is really nice. Didn't see the foundry idea either, but that would be amazing. I'm assuming the foundry/forge would make things other than cannons?
Sorry, there should have been a smiley-face on that comment.
I generally keep my plans to myself because most of them are half-baked and the rest will never see the light of day. I'd much rather not say anything and then present working code, as opposed to go spouting off about things that may or may never be. Much bigger splash saying nothing.
That said...
Putting guns on boats is almost assumed (build a new vehicle and the first thing people want to do is race them, the second thing they want to do is put guns on them), but I don't know that it's been discussed publicly. Implementation is actually pretty easy (much easier than multiple passengers), but having guns on boats introduces several new factors that need to be balanced, and new development trees that need to be constructed.
Example: If you put a cannon on a boat, you need to be able to put a cannon ashore. How do you move a shore battery? If it's AI controllable, how do you keep it provisioned?
What "ingredients" does it take to build a cannon, and what's the recipe? Actually, I can answer that already... there is no recipe for a cannon per se. You'll have to get your cannon from a foundry. But how do you build a foundry? Well, you need a stone mason, and a blacksmith, and a carpenter... and where do they come from? That's a harder question to answer.
Certainly, the ultimate (possibly unobtainable) goal is to have full-on battles between opposing navies, with the ships getting bigger and carrying more guns. How would a player control one? AI crew? And how do you enforce a progressive development scheme so that you have to build smaller ships in order to build bigger ones? On a server with lots of players, how do you decide who captains this ship or that one? Do players own their own ships? What happens to the ships when the owner logs off?
Do you (personally, as a player) want to manually chop down several forests worth of trees and strip-mine half a continent to build a 200ft long, 4-deck, 100-gun man-o-war? I could build one, but it would more likely than not wreck any server that tried to spawn it (in several different ways).
Aside from shooting at each other, what's a boat good for? Well, historically, they've been used to transport goods to market. But Minecraft doesn't really have a market (okay, add that to the list of things that need to be built). Goods need to be warehoused. Goods need to be sold. Sold for what? Money, of course (uh, add that to the list). And, if you have money, you need a bank to put it when it's not in your pocket, so no one steals it.
What's money? Hmm... gold. And silver. Wait, need to add silver (put that on the list). Might as well add copper to the list, too (need copper to make bronze... lots of bronze fittings on boats).
Boats aren't free... at least, the shipwright doesn't work for free. How much does a boat cost? For that matter, how much does a fish cost? Or a loaf of bread?
You see why I don't talk about all this in public?
Too many questions... I think I'll go back to working on multiple passengers.
Finally got multiple passengers working. Had to rewrite a good chunk of my spawn and synchronization code, and I'll need to fix a number of other things that I broke, but the major hurdle has been cleared.
For simple objects like a shovel or an ax, it makes sense to construct pictorially on the crafting bench (i.e. the recipe for a shovel looks like a shovel, the recipe for an ax looks like an ax, etc.). That methodology works until the items get too large or too complex to be adequately pictorial-ized on a 3x3 or 4x4 grid.
We can stretch the paradigm for small boats, but I think larger boats are too big and too complex (have too many parts) to be described on a crafting bench.
I decided a while ago that I would have to come up with a different way to "craft" a ship. I have a working idea, but it involves several preliminary developments (mods) to get there. I don't want to go into detail now but, suffice it to say, that you won't be crafting the ship yourself -- you'll have to build facilities and collect resources for crafting a ship, and then you'll have a shipwright build it for you.
As for alternate dimensions, I'm trying to stay away from them. They would work okay for an interior that didn't have any interaction with the normal dimension (ex: you go below but can't see outside), but wouldn't work so well otherwise (ex: a gun deck).
Sphax is a texture pack. With a huge community that makes custom texture pack support.
Started with a clean 64-bit build, and had problems with Forge and LWJGL. I keep multiple copies of Forge+MCP in case I need to go back at some point, and the Forge installer kept thinking I had a bogus version of MCP where there wasn't one. Cleaned out all my old stuff but then ran into a problem with LWJGL wanting to load a 32-bit .so instead of the 64-bit. Wound up copying LWJGL from my clean Minecraft install.
I've got an updated Forge development environment now... and all I have to do is remember which piece of code I was in the middle of changing when the old mobo spontaneously powered down...
Thanks, glad you like it!
What I'm working on now is a proof-of-concept mod... and so I started with the smallest (simplest) of boats, which was just an extension of the stock boat. Next came the Punt, which added animation of the sail and a working chest. I'm working on the Whitehall right now, which validates implementation of multiple passengers a few other internals. I expect to build out two more (larger) boats that add additional features, and then I'll release a single mod that includes all of them.
Ships (being defined as something "large") will be a different effort, and come later. The basic framework for implementing the ships is being perfected now, but there are other issues (gameplay and balance) that need to be addressed before I just drop a huge 3rd rate ship of the line on the Minecraft community.
Larger ships will definitely cost more and take more time to build... just think about how much raw wood goes into a 70-100 ft sailing ship. There is also quite a lot of skilled labor required (carpenters, coopers, black/redsmiths, sail makers, etc), not to mention other industrial facilities (foundries, mills). Expect to collect A LOT of resources, build several facilities, and then collect even more resources, and wait a good while, before you ship floats.
I have grandiose plans, but it will take a long time to see them realized.
Thanks! A config file was added a couple of versions ago... there isn't a config file distributed with the .jar, but a new one should be created the first time the mod is loaded. If the mod loads and you still don't have a config file, let me know.
Thanks Awger for this truly Elegant mod!
My thoughts on auto-navigation drifted towards lighthouses and an enhanced map table for setting waypoints. Using buoys isn't a bad idea, but it tells people where you're going to be... good for finding your way, bad for pirates finding you.
Re: custom NPC mod -- this is relevant to my interests... tell me more.
Thanks for the great vid!
You Aussies have some fine sailing traditions, and some outright psychotic racing dinghies. I thought about doing something like a Javelin (I know, NZ not Oz) but decided to stick with utility. Need to get the basics working first.
Work proceeds slowly. I'm closing in on a solution for multiple passengers, but MC keeps doing unexpected things. Quite irritating, that...
I can't wait to see where you will take it.
Sure... but you may want to wait until a few more things are fixed (like, Punts colliding with other Punts). I've already tweaked the MP code to keep positions updated better, and I'm closing in on working passengers (I know what's broken, but I don't know why it's broken).
I'm building this as a framework, and it's an iterative effort -- meaning, the Punt is already "old code" and the latest code is in the Whitehall. When I finish up this evolution I'll have to clean things up and then rebuild the Punt using the latest stuff (not a big deal, but it needs to be done). Once that's done I'll release a new .jar that includes both the Punt and the Whitehall.
Since this was always intended for other modders to build their own boats, I expect people to use the Punt/Whitehall/etc in their own mods. The only stipulation I have is that you can't monetize it (ie sell, charge for distribution, or receive payment for my work or any derivative work). I mod because I enjoy it, not because I make money doing it. I rely on a substantial body of work done by others (Forge, MCP) that I didn't pay for, and so I don't think it's fair that I profit from their work, or that other people profit from mine.
(Yes, I know that MediaFire makes money by selling ads that people see when they download my stuff, but that keeps them in business, I don't make money from it, and I don't have to pay them for the service. The whole point is to give back to the community, not profit from it.)
Certainly... just not yet. It's still very much a work in progress, and isn't really in a distributable state.
Also -- I was taking copious notes and writing a tutorial of sorts on how I developed the Punt. It's 26 pages long at the moment, but it was started back when Minecraft was version 1.4.2, and since then the Forge and MC source have been completely rearranged. I'll have to go back and re-write a big chunk of it. I'll also have to talk to somebody at Mojang about releasing it as a tutorial, because it does include many snippets of their code.
I haven't noticed... but, then again, I haven't been playing much lately.
My initial thought is that you're running into something? IIRC, a squid will do that...
A fishing trawler is certainly do-able, but I don't know how it would fit in from a stylistic standpoint -- I always envisioned Minecraft as an "old world" (hence the sails). Also, catching a huge load of fish in one go might be a little un-balancing from an economic standpoint.
I like to idea of crab/lobster pots. How about oysters? One of the boats I want to build is a sharpie schooner, which was a type quite quite popular in the Chesapeake and Carolinas. Would make for a good fishing platform.
Good idea on the noClip'ed buoys, I'll make a note for that.
This idea would be massively useful for the various NPC, warfare, and siege mods out there, allowing for naval invasions.
This coupled with ships that allow you to fire arrows or even emplaced guns (i.e. small frigate) would make this mod's potential and utility even larger.
Regardless, I love what you're doing and have in mind already, I just thought I'd make a suggestion that would add to its versatility, especially on SMP servers.
I don't know of any 17/18th century ships with front ramps... and the Vikings seemed to do just fine jumping over the side when they came ashore.
For port facilities, I plan on building a loading ramp that will attach the ship to a pier when the ship docks. Not sure how that will work yet, but it should be path-able for AIs.
You mean, like this?
That's a 32 lb-er carronade next to a 32 lb-er long gun. Blocks are standard MC size (1m square). Expect to have shot, shell, chain, and grape available for dealing with the appropriate targets.
You did know you were going to have to build a foundry, yes?
As to the cannons, I read all the pages and didn't see that. But hell, that is really nice. Didn't see the foundry idea either, but that would be amazing. I'm assuming the foundry/forge would make things other than cannons?
That's the plan for larger boats and ships. For the Punt and Whitehall, there's nowhere to walk to.
I've never worked with the AI pathing but I gather it's a bit dodgy... will have to cross that bridge when I get to it.
So to speak.
Sorry, there should have been a smiley-face on that comment.
I generally keep my plans to myself because most of them are half-baked and the rest will never see the light of day. I'd much rather not say anything and then present working code, as opposed to go spouting off about things that may or may never be. Much bigger splash saying nothing.
That said...
Putting guns on boats is almost assumed (build a new vehicle and the first thing people want to do is race them, the second thing they want to do is put guns on them), but I don't know that it's been discussed publicly. Implementation is actually pretty easy (much easier than multiple passengers), but having guns on boats introduces several new factors that need to be balanced, and new development trees that need to be constructed.
Example: If you put a cannon on a boat, you need to be able to put a cannon ashore. How do you move a shore battery? If it's AI controllable, how do you keep it provisioned?
What "ingredients" does it take to build a cannon, and what's the recipe? Actually, I can answer that already... there is no recipe for a cannon per se. You'll have to get your cannon from a foundry. But how do you build a foundry? Well, you need a stone mason, and a blacksmith, and a carpenter... and where do they come from? That's a harder question to answer.
Certainly, the ultimate (possibly unobtainable) goal is to have full-on battles between opposing navies, with the ships getting bigger and carrying more guns. How would a player control one? AI crew? And how do you enforce a progressive development scheme so that you have to build smaller ships in order to build bigger ones? On a server with lots of players, how do you decide who captains this ship or that one? Do players own their own ships? What happens to the ships when the owner logs off?
Do you (personally, as a player) want to manually chop down several forests worth of trees and strip-mine half a continent to build a 200ft long, 4-deck, 100-gun man-o-war? I could build one, but it would more likely than not wreck any server that tried to spawn it (in several different ways).
Aside from shooting at each other, what's a boat good for? Well, historically, they've been used to transport goods to market. But Minecraft doesn't really have a market (okay, add that to the list of things that need to be built). Goods need to be warehoused. Goods need to be sold. Sold for what? Money, of course (uh, add that to the list). And, if you have money, you need a bank to put it when it's not in your pocket, so no one steals it.
What's money? Hmm... gold. And silver. Wait, need to add silver (put that on the list). Might as well add copper to the list, too (need copper to make bronze... lots of bronze fittings on boats).
Boats aren't free... at least, the shipwright doesn't work for free. How much does a boat cost? For that matter, how much does a fish cost? Or a loaf of bread?
You see why I don't talk about all this in public?
Too many questions... I think I'll go back to working on multiple passengers.