Yeah, the recolour sounds good, considering every biome would have Wallbrick/column/defmaterial/chiseledcolumns... Would allow for those random textures, too, since it would be only a matter of different translator...
I think the easiest way to test the modules is to allow for some setting file, which could tell the generator to use only one biome or only one module. The paster block is possible and there were plenty of such mods, but I guess the gui would be, let's say... Tricky.
Also, could you point me to that API you're using?
Yeah, the paster, in hindsight, seems like a bad idea. Maybe instead I could just write a little program that displays the modules as a 2-D image (one for each level, with a pixel representing a block).
Unfortunately the next couple weeks are going to be really busy for me, so I won't be able to get much done. Just thought I would warn you.
Thanks for heads up, and good luck with whatever you'll be doing.
And yeah, such program should be easy enough.
[edit]
red the edit on your post.
I can't say I get what do you mean about the link instantly... Is that coordinate in modules?
And, so it means that you create... static space of 4x4x8 (or 6x6?), a column for each corner, and then paste the connections, which are, essentially, whatever you make fit into the 2x8x8 rectangle?
Sounds good...
Also, I think (safe for the top/bottom/upper-middle/lower-middle abstract definitions), we should not concentrate on each number of connection or type meaning absolutely the same. I mean, it's just a number (in what range?), so, in theory, we can have as many of those as we want inside, and it's only up to the biome logic, how would they all be used, though, I imagine, there'd be need to retain certain types so it could connect to other biomes' modules.
Also, I think we should have a way to define, that the module is "static", for decorative walkways/entrances/biome connections and such...
The ides behind the link part is if you want other modules to generate along with it, you put the name of that file, along with where you want it relative to that chunk (in chunk coordinates).
The corners and connections don't really have a set size, but basically, yeah.
The numbers representing connections are currently either a 0, 1, or 2.. I'm not really sure what you're getting at with what else we could use them for.
Hmm... static modules. As in, they're always one shape? Also, I think we should also have another type that only puts connections on the outward sides of the chunk, and rotates its center accordingly, in order to make 16x16 modules a breeze.
This is why i like going in the WIP section, because you never know when you will stumble upon something like this! Sounds like you have it pretty well held down and have a nice plan to finish.
The ides behind the link part is if you want other modules to generate along with it, you put the name of that file, along with where you want it relative to that chunk (in chunk coordinates).
The corners and connections don't really have a set size, but basically, yeah.
The numbers representing connections are currently either a 0, 1, or 2.. I'm not really sure what you're getting at with what else we could use them for.
Hmm... static modules. As in, they're always one shape? Also, I think we should also have another type that only puts connections on the outward sides of the chunk, and rotates its center accordingly, in order to make 16x16 modules a breeze.
Well, honestly I'm not exactly sure in sanity of my statements here because each time I post i'm either zombified-sleepy or still waking up and remembering how to blink.
I guess I ment that it may be a good idea to leave a possibility to enter any number of connections and leave it to the user in case he'll wish to add, say, elevated walkways or something else, that will certainly not fit to "common" walkways and/or connections. The module type would have to be expanded accordingly. Hmm... How would you check the type...
I think there should be a good balance between what the generator can mop up dynamically and on it's own, and what the user would have to put in...
Hmm, say someone decided to make walkways on the sides, that allow to look down through the center of the module... How would he need to implement that? A special module, that connects room/walkway to the connection, or just a connection in room module?
And yeah, the static modules would add possibility for, say, creepy entrances, or any other blocks, that always have same types of connection on each end.
[edit]
Maybe it would be easier to make something 3d-edity with Ogre? I could look into it, since it's simpler than writing a mod for minecraft to compilate the blocks into prisms (unless someone here has experience writing such stuff).
What about adding monumental structures? I think it'd be interesting to have rare structures that are very noticeable, so you can see them across the city and it gives you something to journey towards.
For example, in a biome that consists mostly of 2-10 story builings and occasional taller towers in the 11-25 range, you might have a massive tower spawn that's 100x100 and rises 50 stories.
Or looking down from a high place, you might see a massive flat plaza covered with flowerbeds and stone gazebos.
The idea would be that amid the randomness, there would always be something special and different to give you a goal. And once you reach it then that might make a new monument visible, so you journey further.
Obviously monuments would be randomized too, so giant towers wouldn't all have the same layout and height. And they could be given varying visuals quirks so they look different: one has lava flowing down the sides, one has water, one has sandstone tiling, one has vines, etc.
Monument types could be things like towers, plazas, pits, giant statues of Minecraft creatures, enormous trees, etc.
This sounds like an interesting project, have you any need for a mouse with model and texture experience? I'm fairly decent ant planning out and building structures too!
This sounds like an interesting project, have you any need for a mouse with model and texture experience? I'm fairly decent ant planning out and building structures too!
You'll have to wait for Daev to answer you, but we'll surely need someone to work on the mobs appearance (eventually).
Meanwhile, the textures are appreciated, of course. As well as screenshots/worldfiles to show off them from your point of view.
What about adding monumental structures? I think it'd be interesting to have rare structures that are very noticeable, so you can see them across the city and it gives you something to journey towards.
For example, in a biome that consists mostly of 2-10 story builings and occasional taller towers in the 11-25 range, you might have a massive tower spawn that's 100x100 and rises 50 stories.
Or looking down from a high place, you might see a massive flat plaza covered with flowerbeds and stone gazebos.
The idea would be that amid the randomness, there would always be something special and different to give you a goal. And once you reach it then that might make a new monument visible, so you journey further.
Obviously monuments would be randomized too, so giant towers wouldn't all have the same layout and height. And they could be given varying visuals quirks so they look different: one has lava flowing down the sides, one has water, one has sandstone tiling, one has vines, etc.
Monument types could be things like towers, plazas, pits, giant statues of Minecraft creatures, enormous trees, etc.
I guess that'd have to be another biome with specific rules and lots of pre-definition in the modules.
Well, honestly I'm not exactly sure in sanity of my statements here because each time I post i'm either zombified-sleepy or still waking up and remembering how to blink.
I guess I ment that it may be a good idea to leave a possibility to enter any number of connections and leave it to the user in case he'll wish to add, say, elevated walkways or something else, that will certainly not fit to "common" walkways and/or connections. The module type would have to be expanded accordingly. Hmm... How would you check the type...
I think there should be a good balance between what the generator can mop up dynamically and on it's own, and what the user would have to put in...
Hmm, say someone decided to make walkways on the sides, that allow to look down through the center of the module... How would he need to implement that? A special module, that connects room/walkway to the connection, or just a connection in room module?
And yeah, the static modules would add possibility for, say, creepy entrances, or any other blocks, that always have same types of connection on each end.
[edit]
Maybe it would be easier to make something 3d-edity with Ogre? I could look into it, since it's simpler than writing a mod for minecraft to compilate the blocks into prisms (unless someone here has experience writing such stuff).
I think you bring up an interesting point about connection types. Maybe instead of having just a walkway and a room connection, there would be a default walkway connection, for transitions between districts, then a bunch of other "special" connection types that are dealt with per district (simply a matter of extra possible numbers). This would let you, for example, have multiple building styles in one area that only connect to other parts of the same building style.
The way this could be accomplished in code is give each walkway connection a small chance of becoming another type of specially chosen connection, then giving them a chance to bleed over to intra-chunk cube boundaries (so you'd have fewer tiny rooms and more filled out ones).
The bad news with this is it would be rather messy, but I suppose if we really need that kind of flexibility... shame, I kind of got ahead of myself with the garden stuff, and now it's looking more and more like I'll have to end up rewriting the underlying system.
And you're not the only one that's wondered about the sanity of their statements
What about adding monumental structures? I think it'd be interesting to have rare structures that are very noticeable, so you can see them across the city and it gives you something to journey towards.
For example, in a biome that consists mostly of 2-10 story builings and occasional taller towers in the 11-25 range, you might have a massive tower spawn that's 100x100 and rises 50 stories.
Or looking down from a high place, you might see a massive flat plaza covered with flowerbeds and stone gazebos.
The idea would be that amid the randomness, there would always be something special and different to give you a goal. And once you reach it then that might make a new monument visible, so you journey further.
Obviously monuments would be randomized too, so giant towers wouldn't all have the same layout and height. And they could be given varying visuals quirks so they look different: one has lava flowing down the sides, one has water, one has sandstone tiling, one has vines, etc.
Monument types could be things like towers, plazas, pits, giant statues of Minecraft creatures, enormous trees, etc.
Those were planned, I think. The interesting question is how to accomplish that... I think pseudorandom number generation is probably our friend here. We could just check within an arbitrary space for an occurrence of a "center" of a monument, and if we find one we have it do its thing to the chunk, then just add modules in the remaining space.
This sounds like an interesting project, have you any need for a mouse with model and texture experience? I'm fairly decent ant planning out and building structures too!
That would be awesome! We may need the modeling eventually, but right now I think the texturing and structure building might be of a little more use.
Okay, so I think what really needs to happen before I move forward with improving the generation is a detailed description of what we need it to actually do. It's not so much a question of how, but what, as at the moment that seems like a bit of a moving target. All of your feedback has been helpful in defining some of this, but I think it needs to come together in a clear and concise way.
Heh, I see. :).
And, about the connections - you're already making the pseudo-random check. So it's only a matter of
Define biome -> load the available numbers of modules -> use those to fill in the posssible modules.
Though maybe it would be messy to add pre-defined connections.
Anyway, the randomizer is random. If I were you, I'd just use it all the way into the eternity with selecting, what module to put and what of all the connections to paste. and don't think about pre-definition before I stumbled over the big rooms.
And about the garden biome - you've made a prototype, that gave you the idea how it all should work, and, more importantly, brought more attention to the mod.
About the monuments - mega-modules are cometh. Unless you really feel like making it procedural-generated, even if you can't work with more than one chunk at a time... Hmm... Maybe you just need to write a file with chunk coordinates, that are needed for big structures and work with it that way? Could be easier to just write it all down like that to be sure that everything goes as designed? That way, reference could be used to get either a direction of what to put there and by what angle or just to tell the generator, that there should be some special biome. How many of those can we have, btw?
...a world with structures anywhere you look, awesome..
...gentlemen, is there a simple way to get involved in this mod's development?..
...I could do textures, and I'm not bad at building (in-game, that is) either..
Heh, I see. .
And, about the connections - you're already making the pseudo-random check. So it's only a matter of
Define biome -> load the available numbers of modules -> use those to fill in the posssible modules.
Though maybe it would be messy to add pre-defined connections.
Anyway, the randomizer is random. If I were you, I'd just use it all the way into the eternity with selecting, what module to put and what of all the connections to paste. and don't think about pre-definition before I stumbled over the big rooms.
And about the garden biome - you've made a prototype, that gave you the idea how it all should work, and, more importantly, brought more attention to the mod.
About the monuments - mega-modules are cometh. Unless you really feel like making it procedural-generated, even if you can't work with more than one chunk at a time... Hmm... Maybe you just need to write a file with chunk coordinates, that are needed for big structures and work with it that way? Could be easier to just write it all down like that to be sure that everything goes as designed? That way, reference could be used to get either a direction of what to put there and by what angle or just to tell the generator, that there should be some special biome. How many of those can we have, btw?
Oh, I see. Since I can plop in modules with the pseudorandom, I can just use that directly to figure out what will be there. Any undefined connections can be left up to chance, allowing dynamic modules to adjust themselves. I think I also have a trick up my sleeve as far as getting the top blocks to show up in multiple levels (involving a rarity by level). And while special connections and larger modules might have a bit of a bad interaction, fixing that would be a simple as adding an "immovable" marker on each cube, so certain connections would be fixed for larger modules...
Edit: Nevermind, that's a bad idea.
Yeah, so monuments I think could be broken into chunk sized modules, and each one would be placed according to its distance from the center. We just need to get the centers to be rare enough that they aren't going to crowd each other.
...a world with structures anywhere you look, awesome..
...gentlemen, is there a simple way to get involved in this mod's development?..
...I could do textures, and I'm not bad at building (in-game, that is) either..
Sure, if you want to help with textures or designing some modules, that would be great.
So I figure I may as well ask, what kinds of new blocks do we want in Mazeworld? That's kind of the first step in the texture making process.
Well, that's down to the one, who made modules, to make sure that (within the biome) there is no way there is no connection.
You could add some sort of counter into the code, that sets to, say, 10000 each monument created and is decreaced for each new chunk, not allowing the monument to appear before that?
I suggest that we need
-Column with three states for column/chiseled ornament1/chiseled ornament2. With different texture for top/bottom to allow for vertically-aligned textures.
-A general block, that goes into stairs/steps/fences. The block most is build from, so it requires to be easy on the eyes. More or less.
-Same, but chiseled/decorated version.
Maybe some special wood...
Say, the modules themselves can be any height, right? You said something like that before...
So I figure I may as well ask, what kinds of new blocks do we want in Mazeworld? That's kind of the first step in the texture making process.
Hm. What about limestone blocks? It's used in a lot of ancient real world structures, like the great pyramid of giza and the roman coliseum. Sort of a tannish color.
Marble would be nice for parts of more opulent palaces.
Herringbone brick pattern blocks might be nice for an apartment building district, which could be matched with a dark wood framework, and be be nice for some footpaths: http://en.wikipedia....eee-herring.JPG
And what about ceramic and tile blocks? Sort of the solid more durable version of wool, fireproof, strong, and coming in all colors. Ceramic blocks could be solid cubes of color. Tile blocks could look the same but have a 4x4 grid of white lines on each side. They could look nice in palaces, baths, and be used in mosaics.
Maybe blocks with intricate arabesque patterns on them? There could be a few different pattern blocks, but they could all be designed to have lines that link up, so you could randomly arrange them in a wall many different ways and they would always form a continuous design. Since this is Minecraft maybe it should be a pattern of mazelike right angles instead of swooping curves.
That's gonna be a mess to make herringbone in 16x16... Though I imagine people would appreciate you, sharing more of such reference pictures.
Tiles are a nice idea, though rise your hands who instantly thought about bathroom tiling? I'll be tricky to make work, I imagine. Though, once again, my imagination isn't the paragon of absolute truth.
The only problem with intricate patterns are that they are intricate, so we'll need a really good artist to make that work in 16x16. You already seem what happens when I attempt 'intricate', and only other textures we got is that awesome marble.
Are you sure you *need* new blocks? Woud probaly a lot easier to make this generator work with certain other mods if they woud use mostly normal blocks.
Not that i know anything about modding.
The blocks would allow for certain level of special impression on the player. Not to mentiongiving a reason to go into the mazeworld. You wouldn't like Nether so much if it was made from gravel and stone, would you?
The only issue with mod compatibility I can forsee is if we happened to use the same block Id's. Which can be dealt with easily enough with a config file.
I think the easiest way to test the modules is to allow for some setting file, which could tell the generator to use only one biome or only one module. The paster block is possible and there were plenty of such mods, but I guess the gui would be, let's say... Tricky.
Also, could you point me to that API you're using?
(terrain/mobs/armor)
Yeah, the paster, in hindsight, seems like a bad idea. Maybe instead I could just write a little program that displays the modules as a 2-D image (one for each level, with a pixel representing a block).
Unfortunately the next couple weeks are going to be really busy for me, so I won't be able to get much done. Just thought I would warn you.
And yeah, such program should be easy enough.
[edit]
red the edit on your post.
I can't say I get what do you mean about the link instantly... Is that coordinate in modules?
And, so it means that you create... static space of 4x4x8 (or 6x6?), a column for each corner, and then paste the connections, which are, essentially, whatever you make fit into the 2x8x8 rectangle?
Sounds good...
Also, I think (safe for the top/bottom/upper-middle/lower-middle abstract definitions), we should not concentrate on each number of connection or type meaning absolutely the same. I mean, it's just a number (in what range?), so, in theory, we can have as many of those as we want inside, and it's only up to the biome logic, how would they all be used, though, I imagine, there'd be need to retain certain types so it could connect to other biomes' modules.
Also, I think we should have a way to define, that the module is "static", for decorative walkways/entrances/biome connections and such...
(terrain/mobs/armor)
The corners and connections don't really have a set size, but basically, yeah.
The numbers representing connections are currently either a 0, 1, or 2.. I'm not really sure what you're getting at with what else we could use them for.
Hmm... static modules. As in, they're always one shape? Also, I think we should also have another type that only puts connections on the outward sides of the chunk, and rotates its center accordingly, in order to make 16x16 modules a breeze.
Well, honestly I'm not exactly sure in sanity of my statements here because each time I post i'm either zombified-sleepy or still waking up and remembering how to blink.
I guess I ment that it may be a good idea to leave a possibility to enter any number of connections and leave it to the user in case he'll wish to add, say, elevated walkways or something else, that will certainly not fit to "common" walkways and/or connections. The module type would have to be expanded accordingly. Hmm... How would you check the type...
I think there should be a good balance between what the generator can mop up dynamically and on it's own, and what the user would have to put in...
Hmm, say someone decided to make walkways on the sides, that allow to look down through the center of the module... How would he need to implement that? A special module, that connects room/walkway to the connection, or just a connection in room module?
And yeah, the static modules would add possibility for, say, creepy entrances, or any other blocks, that always have same types of connection on each end.
[edit]
Maybe it would be easier to make something 3d-edity with Ogre? I could look into it, since it's simpler than writing a mod for minecraft to compilate the blocks into prisms (unless someone here has experience writing such stuff).
(terrain/mobs/armor)
For example, in a biome that consists mostly of 2-10 story builings and occasional taller towers in the 11-25 range, you might have a massive tower spawn that's 100x100 and rises 50 stories.
Or looking down from a high place, you might see a massive flat plaza covered with flowerbeds and stone gazebos.
The idea would be that amid the randomness, there would always be something special and different to give you a goal. And once you reach it then that might make a new monument visible, so you journey further.
Obviously monuments would be randomized too, so giant towers wouldn't all have the same layout and height. And they could be given varying visuals quirks so they look different: one has lava flowing down the sides, one has water, one has sandstone tiling, one has vines, etc.
Monument types could be things like towers, plazas, pits, giant statues of Minecraft creatures, enormous trees, etc.
You'll have to wait for Daev to answer you, but we'll surely need someone to work on the mobs appearance (eventually).
Meanwhile, the textures are appreciated, of course. As well as screenshots/worldfiles to show off them from your point of view.
I guess that'd have to be another biome with specific rules and lots of pre-definition in the modules.
(terrain/mobs/armor)
I think you bring up an interesting point about connection types. Maybe instead of having just a walkway and a room connection, there would be a default walkway connection, for transitions between districts, then a bunch of other "special" connection types that are dealt with per district (simply a matter of extra possible numbers). This would let you, for example, have multiple building styles in one area that only connect to other parts of the same building style.
The way this could be accomplished in code is give each walkway connection a small chance of becoming another type of specially chosen connection, then giving them a chance to bleed over to intra-chunk cube boundaries (so you'd have fewer tiny rooms and more filled out ones).
The bad news with this is it would be rather messy, but I suppose if we really need that kind of flexibility... shame, I kind of got ahead of myself with the garden stuff, and now it's looking more and more like I'll have to end up rewriting the underlying system.
And you're not the only one that's wondered about the sanity of their statements
Those were planned, I think. The interesting question is how to accomplish that... I think pseudorandom number generation is probably our friend here. We could just check within an arbitrary space for an occurrence of a "center" of a monument, and if we find one we have it do its thing to the chunk, then just add modules in the remaining space.
That would be awesome! We may need the modeling eventually, but right now I think the texturing and structure building might be of a little more use.
Okay, so I think what really needs to happen before I move forward with improving the generation is a detailed description of what we need it to actually do. It's not so much a question of how, but what, as at the moment that seems like a bit of a moving target. All of your feedback has been helpful in defining some of this, but I think it needs to come together in a clear and concise way.
And, about the connections - you're already making the pseudo-random check. So it's only a matter of
Define biome -> load the available numbers of modules -> use those to fill in the posssible modules.
Though maybe it would be messy to add pre-defined connections.
Anyway, the randomizer is random. If I were you, I'd just use it all the way into the eternity with selecting, what module to put and what of all the connections to paste. and don't think about pre-definition before I stumbled over the big rooms.
And about the garden biome - you've made a prototype, that gave you the idea how it all should work, and, more importantly, brought more attention to the mod.
About the monuments - mega-modules are cometh. Unless you really feel like making it procedural-generated, even if you can't work with more than one chunk at a time... Hmm... Maybe you just need to write a file with chunk coordinates, that are needed for big structures and work with it that way? Could be easier to just write it all down like that to be sure that everything goes as designed? That way, reference could be used to get either a direction of what to put there and by what angle or just to tell the generator, that there should be some special biome. How many of those can we have, btw?
(terrain/mobs/armor)
...gentlemen, is there a simple way to get involved in this mod's development?..
...I could do textures, and I'm not bad at building (in-game, that is) either..
Oh, I see. Since I can plop in modules with the pseudorandom, I can just use that directly to figure out what will be there. Any undefined connections can be left up to chance, allowing dynamic modules to adjust themselves. I think I also have a trick up my sleeve as far as getting the top blocks to show up in multiple levels (involving a rarity by level). And while special connections and larger modules might have a bit of a bad interaction, fixing that would be a simple as adding an "immovable" marker on each cube, so certain connections would be fixed for larger modules...
Edit: Nevermind, that's a bad idea.
Yeah, so monuments I think could be broken into chunk sized modules, and each one would be placed according to its distance from the center. We just need to get the centers to be rare enough that they aren't going to crowd each other.
Sure, if you want to help with textures or designing some modules, that would be great.
So I figure I may as well ask, what kinds of new blocks do we want in Mazeworld? That's kind of the first step in the texture making process.
You could add some sort of counter into the code, that sets to, say, 10000 each monument created and is decreaced for each new chunk, not allowing the monument to appear before that?
I suggest that we need
-Column with three states for column/chiseled ornament1/chiseled ornament2. With different texture for top/bottom to allow for vertically-aligned textures.
-A general block, that goes into stairs/steps/fences. The block most is build from, so it requires to be easy on the eyes. More or less.
-Same, but chiseled/decorated version.
Maybe some special wood...
Say, the modules themselves can be any height, right? You said something like that before...
(terrain/mobs/armor)
(terrain/mobs/armor)
Hm. What about limestone blocks? It's used in a lot of ancient real world structures, like the great pyramid of giza and the roman coliseum. Sort of a tannish color.
Marble would be nice for parts of more opulent palaces.
Herringbone brick pattern blocks might be nice for an apartment building district, which could be matched with a dark wood framework, and be be nice for some footpaths: http://en.wikipedia....eee-herring.JPG
And what about ceramic and tile blocks? Sort of the solid more durable version of wool, fireproof, strong, and coming in all colors. Ceramic blocks could be solid cubes of color. Tile blocks could look the same but have a 4x4 grid of white lines on each side. They could look nice in palaces, baths, and be used in mosaics.
Maybe blocks with intricate arabesque patterns on them? There could be a few different pattern blocks, but they could all be designed to have lines that link up, so you could randomly arrange them in a wall many different ways and they would always form a continuous design. Since this is Minecraft maybe it should be a pattern of mazelike right angles instead of swooping curves.
Tiles are a nice idea, though rise your hands who instantly thought about bathroom tiling? I'll be tricky to make work, I imagine. Though, once again, my imagination isn't the paragon of absolute truth.
The only problem with intricate patterns are that they are intricate, so we'll need a really good artist to make that work in 16x16. You already seem what happens when I attempt 'intricate', and only other textures we got is that awesome marble.
(terrain/mobs/armor)
The blocks would allow for certain level of special impression on the player. Not to mentiongiving a reason to go into the mazeworld. You wouldn't like Nether so much if it was made from gravel and stone, would you?
Which mods are you talking about?
(terrain/mobs/armor)