In response to the huge wall of text a couple of posts above:
I think the notion that there's a 'them' and 'us' division, and the users are caught up in some intermodder world war 3 to be very misguided, and people saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
Modders are constantly interacting with the community, doing things for the community, discussing feedback from the community, fixing bugs for the community. Check out any bug tracker for any popular mod, check out any forum, reddit, twitter. Sit in someones IRC channel for a while. There's also other streams going on behind the scenes between the mod pack creators and the mod developers. Everything is done for the user. Some modders even do tutorial series to encourage people interested in modding.
As for there being some big battle between modders, it's simply untrue. Sure, two out of hundreds of mod developers may fall out or a mod dev might fall out with a launcher, but that kind of thing is tiny compared to how much collaboration is constantly going on between modders.
How many people in the past year have genuinely been affected from some inter-modder disagreement, except for someone maybe not being able to install two particular mods together? My guess is that it's a tiny tiny tiny percentage of people.
Things blow up into these big dramas because of threads like this, people trying to make mountains out of molehills.
I think the notion that there's a 'them' and 'us' division, and the users are caught up in some intermodder world war 3 to be very misguided, and people saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
I'd like to point out that the same could be said for your opinion that there is no divide. Saying it over and over doesn't make it true. That said, I'm not here to fight and as I said before it is my opinion.
Modders are constantly interacting with the community, doing things for the community, discussing feedback from the community, fixing bugs for the community. Check out any bug tracker for any popular mod, check out any forum, reddit, twitter. There's also other streams going on behind the scenes between the mod pack creators and the mod developers. Everything is done for the user.
I unfortunately can not agree with this statement. It is a blanket argument that covers all modders. You yourself are reasonable and have never asked anything unreasonable of the community in regards to your mod, however others are not so reasonable. Several have outright refused to allow their mods to be used in a Mod Pack even when permission is asked politely, on the grounds that "if people want to play with it they can download it from my thread", one that I can name has flat out stated they will not even bother to read emails pertaining to using their mod in a mod pack. I can not with any conscience say that this is "done for the user" it in fact seems like a selfish desire to raise their own downloads via having everyone click on a specific link. Is that their intent? Perhaps not, but perhaps it is, however that is my opinion.
As for there being some big battle between modders, it's simply untrue. Sure, two out of hundreds of mod developers may fall out or a mod dev might fall out with a launcher, but that kind of thing is tiny compared to how much collaboration is constantly going on between modders.
the first nine pages of this thread is Modders complaining that people need to respect their rights and wishes and players arguing that their mods should be free for everyone to play in a debate that goes in circles. If it's not a community wide problem it's certainly a problem in this thread.
How many people in the past year have genuinely been affected from some inter-modder disagreement, except for someone maybe not being able to install two particular mods together?
That is an unfair question as it would require a way to determine such conclusively, that said Mojang has finally been forced to get involved, so I believe it's safe to say that "enough" have. That said, there HAVE in the past been mod developers who have purposefully put code into their mods to cause problems if another specific mod is installed, or to prevent the game itself from launching if a specific directory is/isn't found. I have to say that this is an unacceptable state of affairs, I may respect the makers of mods, but I will never agree that it's okay to attack players this way, whether they are right or wrong.
Several have outright refused to allow their mods to be used in a Mod Pack even when permission is asked politely, on the grounds that "if people want to play with it they can download it from my thread"
A mod developer puts weeks or months of work into something, then makes it publicly available and says "Hey, here's a mod I've made. You're completely welcome to use it! For free! Stick it on your server and play with it against your friends! However, I ask that you don't redistribute it, or at least ask me if that's ok first".
^ How dare they be so anti-user!
Mod developers can have many reasons for not wanting something redistributed. There's security concerns, there's the fact that a manageable userbase can inflate to many millions of people which'll increase the workload of the modder ten-fold when issues start being found, there's concerns about others making money from something you've made, and for some there's the small amount of money that they might get from downloads that helps them out a bit.
Anti-user? I think not.
Although I've personally always taken a different route to this, I can fully understand why mod developers may chose to do this. (And yes, before I was a modder I didn't understand why they'd do it)
As for "mojang being forced to get involved", no - one person from Mojang was baited.
And finally, as for mods adding "malicious" code and "malware" and whatever else I've seen it called lately - what a load of rubbish. From what I've seen most authors who have done that kind of thing have tried to prevent people using the mod if it's been redistributed like they asked for it not to be.
Crashing your game? Big deal, remove the mod. Play with other mods. You didn't pay for it, you're not out of pocket. It's really not the end of the world if the game won't load up if that mod is installed. Many mods don't work right for me, I press the delete key and play other ones instead.
Corrupting your world? yes, that's not nice, and it's stepping over the line, but really, how many people have actually been affected by this? Certainly not enough to justify the anti-modder campaign that's been going on forever.
How many incidents that have actually caused any world corruption can you name that have happened within the past year?
There's one thing many of you seem to be forgetting completely. Players - we put down hundreds of hours of work into making something for you. Something that adds something to the game for you to enjoy. So please stop telling us that we don't care about you. If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have made any mods.
Modders have a few options when issues like these arise. Either, we keep on modding, give all our rights away, and use even more of our time answering all your questions, telling everyone it's okay to redistribute our content, fixing all our bugs no matter how complicated; even if fixing them involves completely rewriting the mod, taking several hundred hours more of our valuable time. Or, we simply just discontinue developing the mod altogether. Not only does it affect you, it also affects everyone else using the mod. It's your choice.
Remember this: We are volunteers, not slaves. If you don't want to follow the simple requirements we've set forth to allow you to actually use our time-consuming work for something good, then there is nothing to stop us from refusing to use more time on it. If you don't show us the tiniest bit of respect for actually giving you something to play with at all, there is no reason for us to keep giving you something to play with.
I AM NOT YOUR PERSONAL MINECRAFT MOD SUPPORT AGENT, SO PLEASE DO NOT PM ME ABOUT PROBLEMATIC MODS THAT ARE NOT MINE. If you're having trouble/crashes with a mod, you'll have better luck resolving it in this forum section than PMing me. If you already made a topic, be patient about responses. If you have troubles with anything non-Minecraft related on your PC, I might be able to help, though, but no promises. Even though I could wish to be, I'm not a wizard.
I sent an email to Mojang a little over a week ago, and am still awaiting a response (they're stuck with holiday related questions...). I hope I'll get a response within at least a week from now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I AM NOT YOUR PERSONAL MINECRAFT MOD SUPPORT AGENT, SO PLEASE DO NOT PM ME ABOUT PROBLEMATIC MODS THAT ARE NOT MINE. If you're having trouble/crashes with a mod, you'll have better luck resolving it in this forum section than PMing me. If you already made a topic, be patient about responses. If you have troubles with anything non-Minecraft related on your PC, I might be able to help, though, but no promises. Even though I could wish to be, I'm not a wizard.
This is completely true but there are measures that can be taken to stop Mojang or anyone. Also the malicious code thing
Modders cannot say 'to play my mod you must be on a vanilla client and/or be playing on a modpack I have approved' as said modder is freely distributing it with a publicly accessible download link. If the client shuts down. This means that by using a mod the player is unable to "play around with [Minecraft]" despite the copy of the game being legally acquired and modifying it as the player wants thus violating the Minecraft EULA.
Well you can just make your mod be inactive when wanted requirements aren't met. Make your mod incompatible with the launcher itself. So you just end up interfering with the launchers code not directly you just have to make it not be a function to do that. Like in gregtech I think he named something a named that interfered with something in the tekkit launcher and tekkit couldn't change or else they'd have to get a new license to the launcher code (Not mod code),
with gregtech the mod itself doesn't load, everything else runs as normal, while I'm unhappy with that scenario it's definitely not malicious, though the same can't be said for some of his previous code, while I'm glad he's moved away from such childish antics I still don't see how it's beneficial to the community or the users to prevent them from using one specific launcher with his content.
as for this idea that you've spent hundreds of hours on a project for the community. Stop, just stop. No one asked you to start this mod, no one is forcing you to continue developing it. If you made it you wanted people to play with it, so stop talking like you're some victim forced to work for the pleasure of others. If you don't enjoy the work stop doing it, it's as simple as that. I don't know about everyone else but I didn't start modding so I could make money from adfly links or so I could let only a few specific people use it, I started modding because I wanted to create something other people could play with while they played with me.
Let me be clear. You are neither now nor ever under any obligation to fix any bugs or continue development on any mod. No one can force you to do so, and if you choose to step down the players will accept it and most will even give you a fond farewell. Do not act like this is some inescapable trial which has been thrust on you. You chose this, you can choose to stop.
Yes, you spent hundreds of hours building, debugging, fixing, etc. And I respect that, I really do, I've been there myself, but what's the point in your mod if only a few people are allowed to play with it? Why did you make it? Who's benefiting from you forcing them to get it directly from your site?
Before you post a rebuttal I ask that you answer those questions, and I want your honest opinion.
And please, stop using Adfly links as a reason to force people to download from your site, at best it's morally ambiguous at worst it's a violation of the EULA, and honestly no matter how much we talk about it we're never going to agree about it being okay or not.
After reading the first four pages of this topic (Including the included parts of the Minecraft EULA, along with everything Marc has stated both on this thread and some of his tweets, I believe (Assuming I am understanding this correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong,) that basically if you do not make any profit in any way you can take all the mod(s) you want, put them in a modpack and redistribute the mod(s), and the creators cannot legally do anything about it. Again, this is purely assumptions made based on what I've read, so please tell me I am wrong if I am, but please have a valid arguement. EDIT: I am not trying to be a jerk, this is purely a question. Do not complain about what a jerk or horrible person I am, I am just trying to make sure I am understanding everything correctly.
Please people, don't tell modders to take a hike. In my opinion, they're the biggest thing Minecraft has going for it.
Honestly, I would not have even bought Minecraft if not for the Technic Pack. I rely on mods for 99% of the enjoyment I get out of Minecraft.
While Mojang has every right and reason NOT to do this, I think Mojang could create a CurseForge style program where modders (and modding teams) can legally get payed for their mods.
Mojang makes a lot of money from Minecraft. Mojang made that money legally and rightfully, and they have every right to it.
But a lot of the reason Minecraft is so successful is mods, and the volunteered time that modders have spent creating said mods. Mods are what will keep Minecraft going, after the fad factor has died off (about a year and a half ago.)
Mojang made an awesome and popular game, and they deserve every penny. But in the long run, mods keep Minecraft going, so IMO, Minecraft should consider keeping the mods going. That way, both are kept going, and the players get more fun out of it. Everyone wins, especially longterm.
"MojangForge" could be comparable to Apple's App Store. A controlled environment with only Mojang-approved mods, with auto mod download and install inside the launcher.
Mods that pull a Greg (sorry) wouldn't be eligible, as well as the other mods that are just poorly made.
There wouldn't necessarily be an "approval-on-every-update" thing like the App Store, as bugs would inescapably still exist. But there could be a "Recommended," "Dev" and/or "Beta" version flags, with auto-update functionality.
This would not be a 'modding' API. In my vision, Minecraft Forge would be a mod people could install, and could be installed automatically as a dependency if you were installing a mod that required it.
Modders would probably get paid based on usage, enough to make modding a viable use of time.
A modding team would get tricky. But I'm sure that modders (not me) and Mojang could come up with and agree on something.
Mods could still be installed normally, as I would probably do. I don't even use a modpack anymore.
Does anyone like this idea? Does it deserve its own thread for discussion?
Why is this topic still being discussed? As Mojang members have clearly stated, what Marc had previously stated and the Minecraft EULA have been entirely misunderstood. Take a look at this:
Obviously your code/assets are your intellectual property so someone just bluntly 'offering it' on another location other than the one you've decided it should be available from should fall under regular 'law' (and thus likely not being legal).
The Minecraft EULA says:
Any tools you write for the Game from scratch belong to you. . Modifications to the Game ("Mods") (including pre-run Mods and in-memory Mods) and plugins for the Game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don‘t sell them for money / try to make money from them.
'Content' in that section are the worlds you play in, nothing more, nothing less.
Modders, you own your code. Do what you wish with it so long as you are not selling it. Everybody else, stop bringing up ideas and concepts related to the misinterpreted content that resulted in the creation of this thread. Stop posting hypothetical situations that are no longer relevant due to the recently obtained information from Mojang. This thread no longer has a reason to continue...
The moral of this story: Before accusing every modder who doesn't want his mod in a modpack or using adfly to being greedy s, try to think if there could be other reasons behind that. And think about that: if you accuse someone of something it shows that this would be the most likely way you'd act yourself.
Good night everybody
I'm sorry, but people are talking about actively getting PAID for their downloads, and I'm sorry but if you're looking at mods as a source of cash rather than pleasure then I'm not sure I WANT you to be part of the community, there are plenty of people who have made their mods free to use however the user wants and it doesn't appear to have caused them any monetary hardship.
Let me be clear, I'm not talking about people who just happen to be using adfly because person x suggested it and they thought it was a great idea. I'm talking about the people who are concerned that they or other modders are LOSING REVENUE from people redistributing a mod. If you want to get really technical each and every one of you has agreed through your installation and use of Minecraft to NOT make money off of mods.
As for the issue you raised involving erroneous bug reports. Lots of mods get that ANYWAY without the involvement of mod packs. Having read most of the Thaumcraft and Thaumic Tinkerer threads I can say with confidence that 90% of the reported crashes are from people using the wrong version ALL ON THEIR OWN without someone else putting together a pack for them, so let's not be so quick to blame all the stupid reports on mod packs. Having experience in running a mod pack myself I have found that the players are more apt to complain at me for a bug rather than go hunt down the mod creator and complain at them, I in turn have brought the bug to the appropriate creators and reported it, generating a grand total of 1 report of an error.
If we're going into hypothetical scenarios let's look at the best case as well as the worst.
Hypothetical Scenario involving Mod Packs B:
Modder A creates a mod, everything goes well someone finds it adds it to their mod pack. Now, say, it's a big community so 80 odd people are now playing with this mod, within a week they've found all sorts of bugs and errors and they've complained about each one quite vocally to the mod pack providers. The provider, knowing where the pack came from, goes to the forum and writes a bug report for 20 odd bugs, generating a grand total of one very condensed but informative post including crash reports (preferably in spoiler tags). If the mod pack custodian is a good person (And let's assume they are) they even end with "just thought I should report these here in case you can find the time to fix them. Anyway we've really enjoyed your mod so keep up the good work!"
This is the way it works with my mod pack, so I'm not sure what basis your hypothetical scenario works off of, then again I tend to be more reasonable than a lot of the general public so maybe that's just me.
If you really want to go back that far then you should really think about the fact that the modding community was willing to violate the EULA of Minecraft but now is quite offended that people are willing to violate theirs.
Look, I'm not saying mods should be open source, or that you should give up your rights to the mod, it's your IP I understand that, you put time into it I understand that too, but I don't understand the idea of putting the mod up for downloading and then expecting everyone to do as you say with it.
This isn't even a matter of me thinking you're right or wrong, at this point that doesn't matter anymore, the thing is that it's out there, and people are going to use it anyway. Yes, you could obfuscate the out of it, yes you could not make it work with specific launchers or other mods, set it up so that it simply won't load itself (yet still let the game load and run as normal) but honestly that seems like a lot of effort, and as we've seen with Gregtech and the Technic Launcher (sorry greg, but you're really visible) that doesn't really work all that well, as someone determined will still slog through your mod to find the one line they need to fix to make it work.
Honestly that's a waste of your time and talents, I can understand asking for recognition, I can understand saying you'd like to be notified if your mod is being used in a pack, everyone deserves credit and recognition for their work, but it's unfortunately impossible to impose or force anything else on the players because they'll just ignore it. It may not be right, and it may not be fair, but the point is that it does and will happen, no matter how hard we try to stop it.
How much easier would it be to just allow people to play with it? To just ask that they inform you and give credit where credit is due? I have seen a community where this type of infighting has already occurred and it signaled the death of the community. We have at this moment the chance to turn it around, to stop both sides from escalating, because that's already started happening.
Don't make your mods open source, don't even deobfuscate them, but let the players play with them, that's all I'm saying. Azanor (Sorry but you're really visible too) has a policy in which he won't even entertain people asking about putting his mod in a mod pack, because of this people just do it anyway. But honestly have you asked yourself why? Why do they go to the trouble, why do they risk his wrath? It's because his mod is FANTASTIC, it's the Minefactory Reloaded of Magical Mods, but he doesn't want us to let our players use it without going directly to his sight. We could point all our users at his sight and say "by the way you need to download this to play here" but that's possibly the most difficult way to set up a server, because it requires everyone always being on the same page, never updating until someone says to do so, etc. We had a similar setup on NWN2 before the autodownloader, it was so unwieldy that most of the players went back to NWN1. Consequently lots of people who set up packs don't ask, they just do it, because they've been told that they won't even have their request entertained.
All I'm asking is that we don't go down that road, we need to realize that any expectation of everyone being reasonable isn't going to happen, and that no matter how many words we put down saying "I don't want you using this" it's just not going to happen, whether that is right or wrong doesn't matter because there's simply no way to reliably enforce it and trying to do so just makes everyone (modder included) angry.
Yeah. It's a bit like an artist putting a torrent of one of their albums on TPB, and saying
"Okay, now don't you download this unless you've purchased it on iTunes."
Well maybe not...
This is in no way an indication of how I utilize my free time.
NullMagic1 and DerelleBot, did you read Mizore_Shirayuki's post above?
Of course! I stopped discussing this seriously a long time ago. I'm just following along for fun now.
Love your mods by the way. Thanks for everything you've done for this community. You've actually caused a lot of good things to happen to mods. As far as I know, you were the first to invent several things that are now the most popular features of other mods.
After reading the first four pages of this topic (Including the included parts of the Minecraft EULA, along with everything Marc has stated both on this thread and some of his tweets, I believe (Assuming I am understanding this correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong,) that basically if you do not make any profit in any way you can take all the mod(s) you want, put them in a modpack and redistribute the mod(s), and the creators cannot legally do anything about it. Again, this is purely assumptions made based on what I've read, so please tell me I am wrong if I am, but please have a valid arguement. EDIT: I am not trying to be a jerk, this is purely a question. Do not complain about what a jerk or horrible person I am, I am just trying to make sure I am understanding everything correctly.
You are wrong. Read the thread and you'll see why. If you were trying to understand everything, as you claim, why not read the thread before posting and highlighting things in bold?
I think the reason why is because Minecraft and Skyrim are two completely different games. Also, I honestly don't see what is toxic about the current modding community! And I most certainly haven't had my head in the ground.
As someone who runs a modpack for his youtube community if you dont see whats toxic then I guess your definition of toxic and mine are different.
95% of mod authors in minecraft are awesome. They work with modpack creators and youtubers to spread the word of amazing mods and help folks with EXTREME lack of technical knowledge play them.
However there are the 5% and sadly many of them are the higher end mods refuse to work with anyone. There are no hoops to jump, no credit to give, absolutely nothing. Its just no you can only use this here.
The issue with this, is then only those 3 packs have that content and the rest of the community is left in the dark. A fraction of the people who could be playing the mod and enjoying it are while a large group are basically told sorry.
Many of these authors dont care about the $ its simply principle. I was screwed once so Im not doing anything now.
It sucks for serious folks like myself who do put together quality packs, file active bug reports on mods, and legit try and work with the community. Its terribly frustrating and limits the community.
I dont know what the right answer is here.
You cant work with the authors as they wont work with you, period.
You can avoid those mods, but then the mod author and your community loses.
You can do it anyway, but then you get the ire of some of the community for not working with the mod makers (see issue one)
These 3 things are whats wrong with the minecraft community. I have no issues with giving credit, jumping through hoops, providing hundreds of hours of quality testing with solid well documented reports, but simply refusing to work with people is just silly in my opinion.
Well. If mod authors helped everyone who requested help. They would never ever be able to work on their mods. It is a rather simple situation of there not being enough time..
It has nothing to do with time.
If a mod author lets me use their mod in my pack it costs them 0 time. In fact, it saves them time as we then take responsibility for install, we pay for bandwidth, and we troubleshoot with the end user.
If there is an issue we do the testing, find the problem, and then submit the bug report with logs and details on the appropriate forum , site, or system.
If anything as I stated earlier its more efficient this way as it frees the author up to do what they do best, mod.
Granted, not everyone that does what I do is good. There are horrible modpack authors out there who know nothing of minecraft, stability, and how to run a bug free pack. If you dont want to deal with those folks there are easy methods for dealing with the weeding out process. But saying blanket no helps no one and hurts everyone.
I think the notion that there's a 'them' and 'us' division, and the users are caught up in some intermodder world war 3 to be very misguided, and people saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
Modders are constantly interacting with the community, doing things for the community, discussing feedback from the community, fixing bugs for the community. Check out any bug tracker for any popular mod, check out any forum, reddit, twitter. Sit in someones IRC channel for a while. There's also other streams going on behind the scenes between the mod pack creators and the mod developers. Everything is done for the user. Some modders even do tutorial series to encourage people interested in modding.
As for there being some big battle between modders, it's simply untrue. Sure, two out of hundreds of mod developers may fall out or a mod dev might fall out with a launcher, but that kind of thing is tiny compared to how much collaboration is constantly going on between modders.
How many people in the past year have genuinely been affected from some inter-modder disagreement, except for someone maybe not being able to install two particular mods together? My guess is that it's a tiny tiny tiny percentage of people.
Things blow up into these big dramas because of threads like this, people trying to make mountains out of molehills.
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Curse PremiumI'd like to point out that the same could be said for your opinion that there is no divide. Saying it over and over doesn't make it true. That said, I'm not here to fight and as I said before it is my opinion.
I unfortunately can not agree with this statement. It is a blanket argument that covers all modders. You yourself are reasonable and have never asked anything unreasonable of the community in regards to your mod, however others are not so reasonable. Several have outright refused to allow their mods to be used in a Mod Pack even when permission is asked politely, on the grounds that "if people want to play with it they can download it from my thread", one that I can name has flat out stated they will not even bother to read emails pertaining to using their mod in a mod pack. I can not with any conscience say that this is "done for the user" it in fact seems like a selfish desire to raise their own downloads via having everyone click on a specific link. Is that their intent? Perhaps not, but perhaps it is, however that is my opinion.
the first nine pages of this thread is Modders complaining that people need to respect their rights and wishes and players arguing that their mods should be free for everyone to play in a debate that goes in circles. If it's not a community wide problem it's certainly a problem in this thread.
That is an unfair question as it would require a way to determine such conclusively, that said Mojang has finally been forced to get involved, so I believe it's safe to say that "enough" have. That said, there HAVE in the past been mod developers who have purposefully put code into their mods to cause problems if another specific mod is installed, or to prevent the game itself from launching if a specific directory is/isn't found. I have to say that this is an unacceptable state of affairs, I may respect the makers of mods, but I will never agree that it's okay to attack players this way, whether they are right or wrong.
Even a mole hill can break a leg.
A mod developer puts weeks or months of work into something, then makes it publicly available and says "Hey, here's a mod I've made. You're completely welcome to use it! For free! Stick it on your server and play with it against your friends! However, I ask that you don't redistribute it, or at least ask me if that's ok first".
^ How dare they be so anti-user!
Mod developers can have many reasons for not wanting something redistributed. There's security concerns, there's the fact that a manageable userbase can inflate to many millions of people which'll increase the workload of the modder ten-fold when issues start being found, there's concerns about others making money from something you've made, and for some there's the small amount of money that they might get from downloads that helps them out a bit.
Anti-user? I think not.
Although I've personally always taken a different route to this, I can fully understand why mod developers may chose to do this. (And yes, before I was a modder I didn't understand why they'd do it)
As for "mojang being forced to get involved", no - one person from Mojang was baited.
And finally, as for mods adding "malicious" code and "malware" and whatever else I've seen it called lately - what a load of rubbish. From what I've seen most authors who have done that kind of thing have tried to prevent people using the mod if it's been redistributed like they asked for it not to be.
Crashing your game? Big deal, remove the mod. Play with other mods. You didn't pay for it, you're not out of pocket. It's really not the end of the world if the game won't load up if that mod is installed. Many mods don't work right for me, I press the delete key and play other ones instead.
Corrupting your world? yes, that's not nice, and it's stepping over the line, but really, how many people have actually been affected by this? Certainly not enough to justify the anti-modder campaign that's been going on forever.
How many incidents that have actually caused any world corruption can you name that have happened within the past year?
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Curse PremiumThere's one thing many of you seem to be forgetting completely. Players - we put down hundreds of hours of work into making something for you. Something that adds something to the game for you to enjoy. So please stop telling us that we don't care about you. If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have made any mods.
Modders have a few options when issues like these arise. Either, we keep on modding, give all our rights away, and use even more of our time answering all your questions, telling everyone it's okay to redistribute our content, fixing all our bugs no matter how complicated; even if fixing them involves completely rewriting the mod, taking several hundred hours more of our valuable time. Or, we simply just discontinue developing the mod altogether. Not only does it affect you, it also affects everyone else using the mod. It's your choice.
Remember this: We are volunteers, not slaves. If you don't want to follow the simple requirements we've set forth to allow you to actually use our time-consuming work for something good, then there is nothing to stop us from refusing to use more time on it. If you don't show us the tiniest bit of respect for actually giving you something to play with at all, there is no reason for us to keep giving you something to play with.
I AM NOT YOUR PERSONAL MINECRAFT MOD SUPPORT AGENT, SO PLEASE DO NOT PM ME ABOUT PROBLEMATIC MODS THAT ARE NOT MINE. If you're having trouble/crashes with a mod, you'll have better luck resolving it in this forum section than PMing me. If you already made a topic, be patient about responses. If you have troubles with anything non-Minecraft related on your PC, I might be able to help, though, but no promises. Even though I could wish to be, I'm not a wizard.
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Curse PremiumI AM NOT YOUR PERSONAL MINECRAFT MOD SUPPORT AGENT, SO PLEASE DO NOT PM ME ABOUT PROBLEMATIC MODS THAT ARE NOT MINE. If you're having trouble/crashes with a mod, you'll have better luck resolving it in this forum section than PMing me. If you already made a topic, be patient about responses. If you have troubles with anything non-Minecraft related on your PC, I might be able to help, though, but no promises. Even though I could wish to be, I'm not a wizard.
Well you can just make your mod be inactive when wanted requirements aren't met. Make your mod incompatible with the launcher itself. So you just end up interfering with the launchers code not directly you just have to make it not be a function to do that. Like in gregtech I think he named something a named that interfered with something in the tekkit launcher and tekkit couldn't change or else they'd have to get a new license to the launcher code (Not mod code),
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Curse Premiumas for this idea that you've spent hundreds of hours on a project for the community. Stop, just stop. No one asked you to start this mod, no one is forcing you to continue developing it. If you made it you wanted people to play with it, so stop talking like you're some victim forced to work for the pleasure of others. If you don't enjoy the work stop doing it, it's as simple as that. I don't know about everyone else but I didn't start modding so I could make money from adfly links or so I could let only a few specific people use it, I started modding because I wanted to create something other people could play with while they played with me.
Let me be clear. You are neither now nor ever under any obligation to fix any bugs or continue development on any mod. No one can force you to do so, and if you choose to step down the players will accept it and most will even give you a fond farewell. Do not act like this is some inescapable trial which has been thrust on you. You chose this, you can choose to stop.
Yes, you spent hundreds of hours building, debugging, fixing, etc. And I respect that, I really do, I've been there myself, but what's the point in your mod if only a few people are allowed to play with it? Why did you make it? Who's benefiting from you forcing them to get it directly from your site?
Before you post a rebuttal I ask that you answer those questions, and I want your honest opinion.
And please, stop using Adfly links as a reason to force people to download from your site, at best it's morally ambiguous at worst it's a violation of the EULA, and honestly no matter how much we talk about it we're never going to agree about it being okay or not.
Quote me if you want a reply, and please click that little
if I helped you out.
Paxit - A Nation-Building Forum Roleplay. Join us!Rest in peace, Paxit.Please people, don't tell modders to take a hike. In my opinion, they're the biggest thing Minecraft has going for it.
Honestly, I would not have even bought Minecraft if not for the Technic Pack. I rely on mods for 99% of the enjoyment I get out of Minecraft.
While Mojang has every right and reason NOT to do this, I think Mojang could create a CurseForge style program where modders (and modding teams) can legally get payed for their mods.
Mojang makes a lot of money from Minecraft. Mojang made that money legally and rightfully, and they have every right to it.
But a lot of the reason Minecraft is so successful is mods, and the volunteered time that modders have spent creating said mods. Mods are what will keep Minecraft going, after the fad factor has died off (about a year and a half ago.)
Mojang made an awesome and popular game, and they deserve every penny. But in the long run, mods keep Minecraft going, so IMO, Minecraft should consider keeping the mods going. That way, both are kept going, and the players get more fun out of it. Everyone wins, especially longterm.
"MojangForge" could be comparable to Apple's App Store. A controlled environment with only Mojang-approved mods, with auto mod download and install inside the launcher.
Mods that pull a Greg (sorry) wouldn't be eligible, as well as the other mods that are just poorly made.
There wouldn't necessarily be an "approval-on-every-update" thing like the App Store, as bugs would inescapably still exist. But there could be a "Recommended," "Dev" and/or "Beta" version flags, with auto-update functionality.
This would not be a 'modding' API. In my vision, Minecraft Forge would be a mod people could install, and could be installed automatically as a dependency if you were installing a mod that required it.
Modders would probably get paid based on usage, enough to make modding a viable use of time.
A modding team would get tricky. But I'm sure that modders (not me) and Mojang could come up with and agree on something.
Mods could still be installed normally, as I would probably do. I don't even use a modpack anymore.
Does anyone like this idea? Does it deserve its own thread for discussion?
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Retired StaffThe Minecraft EULA says:
Also, relating to the parts of the EULA which have been interpreted as limiting mods the most in this thread:
Modders, you own your code. Do what you wish with it so long as you are not selling it. Everybody else, stop bringing up ideas and concepts related to the misinterpreted content that resulted in the creation of this thread. Stop posting hypothetical situations that are no longer relevant due to the recently obtained information from Mojang. This thread no longer has a reason to continue...
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Curse PremiumI'm sorry, but people are talking about actively getting PAID for their downloads, and I'm sorry but if you're looking at mods as a source of cash rather than pleasure then I'm not sure I WANT you to be part of the community, there are plenty of people who have made their mods free to use however the user wants and it doesn't appear to have caused them any monetary hardship.
Let me be clear, I'm not talking about people who just happen to be using adfly because person x suggested it and they thought it was a great idea. I'm talking about the people who are concerned that they or other modders are LOSING REVENUE from people redistributing a mod. If you want to get really technical each and every one of you has agreed through your installation and use of Minecraft to NOT make money off of mods.
As for the issue you raised involving erroneous bug reports. Lots of mods get that ANYWAY without the involvement of mod packs. Having read most of the Thaumcraft and Thaumic Tinkerer threads I can say with confidence that 90% of the reported crashes are from people using the wrong version ALL ON THEIR OWN without someone else putting together a pack for them, so let's not be so quick to blame all the stupid reports on mod packs. Having experience in running a mod pack myself I have found that the players are more apt to complain at me for a bug rather than go hunt down the mod creator and complain at them, I in turn have brought the bug to the appropriate creators and reported it, generating a grand total of 1 report of an error.
If we're going into hypothetical scenarios let's look at the best case as well as the worst.
Hypothetical Scenario involving Mod Packs B:
Modder A creates a mod, everything goes well someone finds it adds it to their mod pack. Now, say, it's a big community so 80 odd people are now playing with this mod, within a week they've found all sorts of bugs and errors and they've complained about each one quite vocally to the mod pack providers. The provider, knowing where the pack came from, goes to the forum and writes a bug report for 20 odd bugs, generating a grand total of one very condensed but informative post including crash reports (preferably in spoiler tags). If the mod pack custodian is a good person (And let's assume they are) they even end with "just thought I should report these here in case you can find the time to fix them. Anyway we've really enjoyed your mod so keep up the good work!"
This is the way it works with my mod pack, so I'm not sure what basis your hypothetical scenario works off of, then again I tend to be more reasonable than a lot of the general public so maybe that's just me.
are they still subject to the EULA?
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Curse PremiumLook, I'm not saying mods should be open source, or that you should give up your rights to the mod, it's your IP I understand that, you put time into it I understand that too, but I don't understand the idea of putting the mod up for downloading and then expecting everyone to do as you say with it.
This isn't even a matter of me thinking you're right or wrong, at this point that doesn't matter anymore, the thing is that it's out there, and people are going to use it anyway. Yes, you could obfuscate the out of it, yes you could not make it work with specific launchers or other mods, set it up so that it simply won't load itself (yet still let the game load and run as normal) but honestly that seems like a lot of effort, and as we've seen with Gregtech and the Technic Launcher (sorry greg, but you're really visible) that doesn't really work all that well, as someone determined will still slog through your mod to find the one line they need to fix to make it work.
Honestly that's a waste of your time and talents, I can understand asking for recognition, I can understand saying you'd like to be notified if your mod is being used in a pack, everyone deserves credit and recognition for their work, but it's unfortunately impossible to impose or force anything else on the players because they'll just ignore it. It may not be right, and it may not be fair, but the point is that it does and will happen, no matter how hard we try to stop it.
How much easier would it be to just allow people to play with it? To just ask that they inform you and give credit where credit is due? I have seen a community where this type of infighting has already occurred and it signaled the death of the community. We have at this moment the chance to turn it around, to stop both sides from escalating, because that's already started happening.
Don't make your mods open source, don't even deobfuscate them, but let the players play with them, that's all I'm saying. Azanor (Sorry but you're really visible too) has a policy in which he won't even entertain people asking about putting his mod in a mod pack, because of this people just do it anyway. But honestly have you asked yourself why? Why do they go to the trouble, why do they risk his wrath? It's because his mod is FANTASTIC, it's the Minefactory Reloaded of Magical Mods, but he doesn't want us to let our players use it without going directly to his sight. We could point all our users at his sight and say "by the way you need to download this to play here" but that's possibly the most difficult way to set up a server, because it requires everyone always being on the same page, never updating until someone says to do so, etc. We had a similar setup on NWN2 before the autodownloader, it was so unwieldy that most of the players went back to NWN1. Consequently lots of people who set up packs don't ask, they just do it, because they've been told that they won't even have their request entertained.
All I'm asking is that we don't go down that road, we need to realize that any expectation of everyone being reasonable isn't going to happen, and that no matter how many words we put down saying "I don't want you using this" it's just not going to happen, whether that is right or wrong doesn't matter because there's simply no way to reliably enforce it and trying to do so just makes everyone (modder included) angry.
"Okay, now don't you download this unless you've purchased it on iTunes."
Well maybe not...
This is in no way an indication of how I utilize my free time.
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Curse PremiumOf course! I stopped discussing this seriously a long time ago. I'm just following along for fun now.
Love your mods by the way. Thanks for everything you've done for this community. You've actually caused a lot of good things to happen to mods. As far as I know, you were the first to invent several things that are now the most popular features of other mods.
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Curse PremiumYou are wrong. Read the thread and you'll see why. If you were trying to understand everything, as you claim, why not read the thread before posting and highlighting things in bold?
As someone who runs a modpack for his youtube community if you dont see whats toxic then I guess your definition of toxic and mine are different.
95% of mod authors in minecraft are awesome. They work with modpack creators and youtubers to spread the word of amazing mods and help folks with EXTREME lack of technical knowledge play them.
However there are the 5% and sadly many of them are the higher end mods refuse to work with anyone. There are no hoops to jump, no credit to give, absolutely nothing. Its just no you can only use this here.
The issue with this, is then only those 3 packs have that content and the rest of the community is left in the dark. A fraction of the people who could be playing the mod and enjoying it are while a large group are basically told sorry.
Many of these authors dont care about the $ its simply principle. I was screwed once so Im not doing anything now.
It sucks for serious folks like myself who do put together quality packs, file active bug reports on mods, and legit try and work with the community. Its terribly frustrating and limits the community.
I dont know what the right answer is here.
You cant work with the authors as they wont work with you, period.
You can avoid those mods, but then the mod author and your community loses.
You can do it anyway, but then you get the ire of some of the community for not working with the mod makers (see issue one)
These 3 things are whats wrong with the minecraft community. I have no issues with giving credit, jumping through hoops, providing hundreds of hours of quality testing with solid well documented reports, but simply refusing to work with people is just silly in my opinion.
It has nothing to do with time.
If a mod author lets me use their mod in my pack it costs them 0 time. In fact, it saves them time as we then take responsibility for install, we pay for bandwidth, and we troubleshoot with the end user.
If there is an issue we do the testing, find the problem, and then submit the bug report with logs and details on the appropriate forum , site, or system.
If anything as I stated earlier its more efficient this way as it frees the author up to do what they do best, mod.
Granted, not everyone that does what I do is good. There are horrible modpack authors out there who know nothing of minecraft, stability, and how to run a bug free pack. If you dont want to deal with those folks there are easy methods for dealing with the weeding out process. But saying blanket no helps no one and hurts everyone.