(Note to Moderators: If theres anything wrong language wise thats bannable, I can only ask that you edit them/star them out. I know thats not really my place to ask, nor is it something you're keen to doing, but this something I feel strongly about, and something I feel everyone needs to hear. At the very least, if your going to kick me for anything, fix whats wrong and lock the topic. Leave it here for people to read, or link to, which I can only hope someone does.)
For a long time, I've been playing minecraft hitting it off and on. Its a fun game, but it gets dull. Modding has made it last so much longer for not only me, but my friends. I will admit, I got into mods through technic; but at the time of discovering it, it had no server. So, I had to mod the server my self, and then add the mods in myself for my friends, who just aren't that technically inclined to do so. It was fun, real fun; I enjoyed it, I enjoyed the mods, we all did. It got easier when there was a way for my freinds to install things easier via the modpack. Modpacks of all sorts help friends be sure they're running the same thing.
some of you can guess where this topic is going, but I beg you, to read everything before you walk away.
Fast forward to today. I haven't touched minecraft in at least a year, and a few times I've thought about it, but my stomach wrenches every single time I start looking at the mods. Are they bad? Not at all, theres alot of creative stuff here; brilliant I would say. What disgusts me so very deeply and makes me sad to heart, is how the modding community acts. When did we lose ourselves? When did pride devouring our spirit, desire consume our souls, leaving nothing but a husk of self-entitlement and witchhunts for "copyright"? I hate to break it to everyone, but saying copyright doesn't make anything copyright. Theres a legal process behind that. And more importantly, Copyright is there to protect, -NOT- harass, thats a whole other can of worms though that I haven't the desire nor will to open up.
Where I am going with this, is this community kills itself. Might not look it now, but it going to. Elitism has alienated the less technically inclined, self-entitlement and people getting so anal over "permissions" and "copyright" that we'd destroy ourselves over it, that we'd deny anything, any attempt to make modding acessible to everyone; because like it or not, everyone deserves to get a taste of the great things the minecraft modding community has made. I would say thats what most modmakers would want anyways, yes? That brings me to my next point.
Why did you make a mod? You don't make money off it, at least, you don't make much if you do at all. Thats not why you made it, and everyone knows that. I can't code, but I have something myself I offer to the world, and I dedicate alot of my time to it. I can't speak from experience, but it seems mod makers do it for the same reason I do it. Its expression. Its a calling, its a sort of knowing of your role, as an actor in the grand stage of life. Some may not understand that. Some may argue against it. But I know those of you who dedicate so much time into mods know exactly what I am talking about. I know you also hate to have your work sullied, to have it smeared or abused. But this copyright whoring, this, this travesty over trivial things, is not smearing. Half of the mod makers here don't have time to go through all there pms to check for mod packs. To go out of your way to deny packs, or really any method of getting mods to the community is horrible. Its downright horrible.
Forge is a great example in both ways. Firstly, it did the right thing to begin with. It made a the modding community come TOGETHER, instead of SEPERATING itself. the whole thing with forge and bukkit is quite the opposite; just another example of this community having way too much pride, and all sides calling the other side bad and wrong. Immature children screaming at each other. Is it offensive to you to read this? You might want to ask why.
An authors wishes should be respected. I will never, say they should not. An author should make reasonable wishes to be respected, if they're going to give something to the community. I would understand, if you had given this to a handful of freinds, and then one goes to release it, and gives all credit to you. But when everyone can acess it anyways, people are still recognizing you(This part saddens me, credit is important but it seems almost attention ***** level the way some mod authors have tantrumed) and nothing really changes besides someone making something available.
Mod authors, technic people, mod enthusiasts, mod pack makers, everyone who even uses the word copyright when dealing with mods...
Stop killing your own community, stop being so arrogantly prideful, show some damn humility. Apologize when you make a mistake or overreact. Accept an apology when someone else does the same. Be jolly, be happy, lets make this community a community and not a -flinging contest over who has the best circlejerk.
Some closing statements I'd like to make, before you reply or leave this thread;
Not all mod authors are bad. not all of the community is bad. Theres some I like alot, personally.This is the majority, everytime I come back, something dramatics goin' on.
I don't think mod authors should be background. I don't think they are bad for wanting credit. I think some of them are bad because they destroy so much for recognition they already get.
Any posts here should be about the topic at hand, I most likely won't be responding. I don't care to retort. That's just feeding the beast that gnaws at the inside of this community.
Im sorry but I'm lazy. Can you please put up a TLDR?
more then half of the modders here are stuck up their own asses, threaten legal actions they cannot make, claim legal rights they do not have, are self absorbed attention whores, and use all of forementioned to break this community apart, and make it nearly inacessible due to an elitist view.
Im saddened because I know this is why the modding community will be held still, Im saddened because of the things modders have said to others while on their high horses. The few shining examples of good modders, good community members, and generally mature contributors, is ignored in favor of blame throwing, obsession with stupid copyright that doesn't exist or even really being infringed apon if it were, and above all else, used as the main means of starting storms and arguements with each other.
Theres alot of good mods out there. ITs just a shame most of the makers will find any reason to and moan to bring the spotlight to them, an endless drama of that has utterly ruined this game for me, I just can't come back to all these beautiful mods because Ihate to see the drama attached to it. Was fun when it was minimal. Toodles.
I actually saved this conversation for later to see how it paned out. Anyway I will add my 2c
I basically see this as 3 issues you have, modpacks, copywrites and moders being doches.
Modpacks
What I mainly disagree with is the whole point of modpacks. It's not to ease instalation, which now is basically just a copy/paste into the mods or coremod folder as the vast majority of mods are baseclass edit free. It's because people here are lazy. Hell Crazshamo just proved my point, rather than reading the post he finds it easier to ask for a smaller version and wait for a response, where has SOCIETY lost its way?
No lets see some of the disadvantages
The are commonly distributed with an .exe file. Where java is sandboxed, c++ is not. This can be increadibly unsafe for the users computer.
Due to the fact that modpacks do not update everytime each mod updates, you will commonly get out of date versions of mods.
This can be especially annoying for the mod creaters as they will get bug reports of bugs that were fixed a number of releases ago
It means that the users are not reading the installation/known bug/known incompatibility/FAQ section of the mods in question. So they now come to my thread complaining about a crash which could have been entirely avoided if they actually read the thread. You wouldn't believe how often this happens, and it is highly annoying
Some modpacks use revenue generating streams such as adfly, or even adds on an external website. This is the most wrong thing they possibly can do, why the hell should they make a cent of my work when I myself distribute it freely?
Some modpack owners are.. well.. idiots and package mods either without their dependencies or with incompatible mods
When someone comes to my thread with a crash and I ask them to list all API's and mods used, they can't because they are using a modpack.
I would be happy to change my view on modpacks if an actual advantage can be given, but right now I see them as the most pointless thing on these forums *
*Note: I just want to put it out there that despite my stance on modpacks, I actually don't really care if people put my work in one. I do request they use no revenue generating streams whatsoever and provide all the info in the FAQ/Compatibility/etc sections in an easly readable format.
Copywrite
There actually was (I say was becuase for the life of me I can't find the reference anymore) a rule saying that moders needed to put one of those crappy little copywrite statements on their post.
Furthermore I have seen instances of my mod being packaged on other sites with viruses. How do you think it feels having your work as a vector for a virus?
Moders being doches
You say modders should stop being doches? I say EVERYONE needs to stop. The amount of times I get spammed with people saying "You should update X" not even hours after minecraft has been updated is absolutely horrible. Hell I even had one user telling me a should stop having a life and update a mod because that is more important. I would like to point out that my "having a life" is actually hunting for a job.
Yes asking a mod to update may not seem to bad when it happens once, but when you log in and find PMs into the double digets and your mod post spammed with these kinds of messages it is very hard to not be very annoyed by these people. What makes it even worse is the fact that some of them are quite rude (eg the one above) or quite abusive.
Then we get to those who are too lazy to read simple install instructions, complaining about crashes (without even posting a crash log which I tell them I need and provide instructions to obtain) that end up being caused by not having required APIs because they were too lazy to read the damn OP. I would like to draw you attention to Crazshamo again who demonstrates my point about people being to lazy to read so well.
And then even some of the behaviour on your post, when you write
Any posts here should be about the topic at hand, I most likely won't be responding
how do you think this makes you come across? Your complaining about a small group of people being doches and you basically say that you are better than all of us and will likely not respond to people who disagree with your view.
You say modders need to look at themselves, and as much as I agree with you about that I think both you and the rest of the community do also.
For a long time, I've been playing minecraft hitting it off and on. Its a fun game, but it gets dull. Modding has made it last so much longer for not only me, but my friends. I will admit, I got into mods through technic; but at the time of discovering it, it had no server. So, I had to mod the server my self, and then add the mods in myself for my friends, who just aren't that technically inclined to do so. It was fun, real fun; I enjoyed it, I enjoyed the mods, we all did. It got easier when there was a way for my freinds to install things easier via the modpack. Modpacks of all sorts help friends be sure they're running the same thing.
some of you can guess where this topic is going, but I beg you, to read everything before you walk away.
Fast forward to today. I haven't touched minecraft in at least a year, and a few times I've thought about it, but my stomach wrenches every single time I start looking at the mods. Are they bad? Not at all, theres alot of creative stuff here; brilliant I would say. What disgusts me so very deeply and makes me sad to heart, is how the modding community acts. When did we lose ourselves? When did pride devouring our spirit, desire consume our souls, leaving nothing but a husk of self-entitlement and witchhunts for "copyright"? I hate to break it to everyone, but saying copyright doesn't make anything copyright. Theres a legal process behind that. And more importantly, Copyright is there to protect, -NOT- harass, thats a whole other can of worms though that I haven't the desire nor will to open up.
Where I am going with this, is this community kills itself. Might not look it now, but it going to. Elitism has alienated the less technically inclined, self-entitlement and people getting so anal over "permissions" and "copyright" that we'd destroy ourselves over it, that we'd deny anything, any attempt to make modding acessible to everyone; because like it or not, everyone deserves to get a taste of the great things the minecraft modding community has made. I would say thats what most modmakers would want anyways, yes? That brings me to my next point.
Why did you make a mod? You don't make money off it, at least, you don't make much if you do at all. Thats not why you made it, and everyone knows that. I can't code, but I have something myself I offer to the world, and I dedicate alot of my time to it. I can't speak from experience, but it seems mod makers do it for the same reason I do it. Its expression. Its a calling, its a sort of knowing of your role, as an actor in the grand stage of life. Some may not understand that. Some may argue against it. But I know those of you who dedicate so much time into mods know exactly what I am talking about. I know you also hate to have your work sullied, to have it smeared or abused. But this copyright whoring, this, this travesty over trivial things, is not smearing. Half of the mod makers here don't have time to go through all there pms to check for mod packs. To go out of your way to deny packs, or really any method of getting mods to the community is horrible. Its downright horrible.
Forge is a great example in both ways. Firstly, it did the right thing to begin with. It made a the modding community come TOGETHER, instead of SEPERATING itself. the whole thing with forge and bukkit is quite the opposite; just another example of this community having way too much pride, and all sides calling the other side bad and wrong. Immature children screaming at each other. Is it offensive to you to read this? You might want to ask why.
An authors wishes should be respected. I will never, say they should not. An author should make reasonable wishes to be respected, if they're going to give something to the community. I would understand, if you had given this to a handful of freinds, and then one goes to release it, and gives all credit to you. But when everyone can acess it anyways, people are still recognizing you(This part saddens me, credit is important but it seems almost attention ***** level the way some mod authors have tantrumed) and nothing really changes besides someone making something available.
Mod authors, technic people, mod enthusiasts, mod pack makers, everyone who even uses the word copyright when dealing with mods...
Stop killing your own community, stop being so arrogantly prideful, show some damn humility. Apologize when you make a mistake or overreact. Accept an apology when someone else does the same. Be jolly, be happy, lets make this community a community and not a -flinging contest over who has the best circlejerk.
Some closing statements I'd like to make, before you reply or leave this thread;
Not all mod authors are bad. not all of the community is bad. Theres some I like alot, personally.This is the majority, everytime I come back, something dramatics goin' on.
I don't think mod authors should be background. I don't think they are bad for wanting credit. I think some of them are bad because they destroy so much for recognition they already get.
Any posts here should be about the topic at hand, I most likely won't be responding. I don't care to retort. That's just feeding the beast that gnaws at the inside of this community.
more then half of the modders here are stuck up their own asses, threaten legal actions they cannot make, claim legal rights they do not have, are self absorbed attention whores, and use all of forementioned to break this community apart, and make it nearly inacessible due to an elitist view.
Im saddened because I know this is why the modding community will be held still, Im saddened because of the things modders have said to others while on their high horses. The few shining examples of good modders, good community members, and generally mature contributors, is ignored in favor of blame throwing, obsession with stupid copyright that doesn't exist or even really being infringed apon if it were, and above all else, used as the main means of starting storms and arguements with each other.
Theres alot of good mods out there. ITs just a shame most of the makers will find any reason to and moan to bring the spotlight to them, an endless drama of that has utterly ruined this game for me, I just can't come back to all these beautiful mods because Ihate to see the drama attached to it. Was fun when it was minimal. Toodles.
I basically see this as 3 issues you have, modpacks, copywrites and moders being doches.
Modpacks
What I mainly disagree with is the whole point of modpacks. It's not to ease instalation, which now is basically just a copy/paste into the mods or coremod folder as the vast majority of mods are baseclass edit free. It's because people here are lazy. Hell Crazshamo just proved my point, rather than reading the post he finds it easier to ask for a smaller version and wait for a response, where has SOCIETY lost its way?
No lets see some of the disadvantages
I would be happy to change my view on modpacks if an actual advantage can be given, but right now I see them as the most pointless thing on these forums *
*Note: I just want to put it out there that despite my stance on modpacks, I actually don't really care if people put my work in one. I do request they use no revenue generating streams whatsoever and provide all the info in the FAQ/Compatibility/etc sections in an easly readable format.
Copywrite
There actually was (I say was becuase for the life of me I can't find the reference anymore) a rule saying that moders needed to put one of those crappy little copywrite statements on their post.
Furthermore I have seen instances of my mod being packaged on other sites with viruses. How do you think it feels having your work as a vector for a virus?
Moders being doches
You say modders should stop being doches? I say EVERYONE needs to stop. The amount of times I get spammed with people saying "You should update X" not even hours after minecraft has been updated is absolutely horrible. Hell I even had one user telling me a should stop having a life and update a mod because that is more important. I would like to point out that my "having a life" is actually hunting for a job.
Yes asking a mod to update may not seem to bad when it happens once, but when you log in and find PMs into the double digets and your mod post spammed with these kinds of messages it is very hard to not be very annoyed by these people. What makes it even worse is the fact that some of them are quite rude (eg the one above) or quite abusive.
Then we get to those who are too lazy to read simple install instructions, complaining about crashes (without even posting a crash log which I tell them I need and provide instructions to obtain) that end up being caused by not having required APIs because they were too lazy to read the damn OP. I would like to draw you attention to Crazshamo again who demonstrates my point about people being to lazy to read so well.
And then even some of the behaviour on your post, when you write
how do you think this makes you come across? Your complaining about a small group of people being doches and you basically say that you are better than all of us and will likely not respond to people who disagree with your view.
You say modders need to look at themselves, and as much as I agree with you about that I think both you and the rest of the community do also.