I had said some Pro-FC statements, I take them back. FC and his supporters are a cancer to the minecraft modding community. I really can compare this to a rational argument between Christianity and Rational Thought in which FC and his supporters play the role of the overzealous christians blinded by faith and the Forge community are the rational thinkers, providing facts with supportive information.
You can say this, and people accuse me of comparing apples to oranges? (Which has always been a silly metaphor, by the by. It is actually quite easy to compare apples to oranges.)
i see this, however, with the roles reversed. FC is acting rationally while those that are arguing in favor of BWF are blinded by their god of compatibility. just saying...
This, on the other hand, I'm inclined to agree with. When peole's arguments involve sentiments like "Forge is vastly superior to anything else.", you would be hard-pressed to say that they are being made impartially. The facts remain that FlowerChild expressly states in all materials related to Better Than Wolves that people are expressly forbidden from porting, modifying, or otherwise redistributing it. Whether or not you agree with the right to make those claims existing, common courtesy would dictate that one should not go against them. The desires of the creator should be respected, not met with an attitude of "Nyah-nyah~ You can't stop meeee~!". Not liking someone is no excuse for treating them churlishly. Also, in case anyone wants to tell me that those behind Better With Forge do not have such an attitude, let me point out that Lex flat-out stated to FlowerChild in that conversation everyone is so fond of bringing up that he couldn't "stop us from doing whatever we want".
It's actually one of the very rare times when me and the Technic community have seen eye to eye on something. Having prominent members of the Forge community supporting what is being done with BWF, right down to the head of the Forge (LexManos) appearing in seven hours worth of video raving of the virtues of BWF, justifying its existence and what they are doing to me, and expressing intimate knowledge of its inner workings, is just outright hypocrisy due to their constant condemnation of Technic.
I really do not understand why he and others are not being called on this more loudly, or how anyone can argue that this is the action of a single lone modder nobody has ever heard of.
This is probably the only thing that i ever agreed with with FC. Their constant condemnation of the technic pack, even currently despite their views on BWF's legitimacy (not disputing it), i would kike to quote lex here. LexManos: And we feel that we want to play your mod LexManos: Weither you like it or not LexManos: We're not saying that, we're saying that its not your job to stop us from doing whatever we want. LexManos: As I've stated many times, your mod is cool, you are a head.
That is funny, I am being told the exact opposite from people who have looked into the code.
It's also been said by the developers of BWF as well.
But that's beyond the point. The point is the amount of disrespect toward what is considered a good mod.
I don't like the Forge devs, but I still use the API because it's the best one out there, and most modders use it.
For the record it isn't being silent when wronged I was saying. I'm saying be silent WHEN YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING. God, you somehow miss the point of 2 posts completely. Your not getting anything done. Stop wasting time and do something else.
He can do something. It's called voicing your opinion, when you feel wronged, you should say so, whether you can do something or not.
You're being a hypocrite by saying this you know. You're also saying something when you're not getting anywhere.
It's also been said by the developers of BWF as well.
But that's beyond the point. The point is the amount of disrespect toward what is considered a good mod.
I don't like the Forge devs, but I still use the API because it's the best one out there, and most modders use it.
He can do something. It's called voicing your opinion, when you feel wronged, you should say so, whether you can do something or not.
You're being a hypocrite by saying this you know. You're also saying something when you're not getting anywhere.
Yes and your also wasting your time. I literally have nothing better to do right now. Watching you idiots screw around and drum up hype for BwF was fun but it's just gotten stupid. He voiced his opinion. All he's doing at this point is ensuring more people know about BwF.
It's also been said by the developers of BWF as well.
But that's beyond the point. The point is the amount of disrespect toward what is considered a good mod.
Source? I didn't know FA made a public appearance yet.
This is probably the only thing that i ever agreed with with FC.
Coincidentally, the statement CheapShot made on this was one of only things to come out of the Technic scene that I agreed with as well. It's a pretty sad day when our two communities who have been so classically in opposition actually agree on something
The stance they're taking with BWF, and the one they take with Technic are incompatible. I've said it before and I'll say it again, that at least the Technic guys have the courage of their own convictions and consistently stand behind their point of view.
We're seeing no such courage from the Forge scene at present. They made one 7 hour video stating their support for BWF over and over again, and ever since have simply spouted one denial after another about it, which to me, is a direct insult to whomever they are spouting such transparent nonsense to. This is all while they promote their "legitimate" alternative to Technic with the FTB mod-pack.
*That* is why I have consistently called Lex on this every chance I get and continued to highlight his involvement in the whole thing, instead of spinning my wheels and making this about someone who is so lacking in courage as to hide behind an alias to an alias to disguise their involvement.
Yes and your also wasting your time. I literally have nothing better to do right now. Watching you idiots screw around and drum up hype for BwF was fun but it's just gotten stupid. He voiced his opinion. All he's doing at this point is ensuring more people know about BwF.
Maybe to you I'm wasting my time. But not me.
But however, here it is for you guys. If you can't respect FlowerChild as a person, then at least respect him as a modder by not porting his mod. Is that so hard?
Yes and your also wasting your time. I literally have nothing better to do right now. Watching you idiots screw around and drum up hype for BwF was fun but it's just gotten stupid. He voiced his opinion. All he's doing at this point is ensuring more people know about BwF.
Why don't you just go play some Minecraft?
I'm here because I believe that when you feel that something is objectionable, you should say so. I believe that you should try to sway people's opinions in the hope that maybe it will make a difference. According to what you just said, you are only here because you are bored and want to stir up trouble.
The ultimate issue at hand is will new adopters of these forge mods understand the carefully crafted balance and design features implemented into the game. If you say well I want an easy way to transmit things vertically and BTW solution is something I want to bypass then your demonstrating you DO POSSESS an intimate knowledge of what you’re in store for and the costs you’re going to incur. What is not obvious is that everybody who will play BWF with other big tech mods knows this or even has general understanding of the divergence between many of the tech mods were power is granted with very small amounts of effort to achieve.
If you want windmills eloraam is copying them so you don’t need BTW for that.
To your second point I made it explicit I was talking about big tech mods not small vanity mods. Naïve gamers who install mods will likely install the big ones and we all know what those are. Balkon’s weapons mod: BTW you really have to automate to get projectile, feathers or rotted arrows, Balkon gives you other sources of projectiles devaluing BTW automated systems that provide projectiles.
As far as BTB those two techtrees were highly dependent on each other however I will agree that having pneumatic pipes move items vertically was an affront to the pully/rope system. Maybe when BTW techs up to drive-through banking it will make more sense but I always thought pipes that move things other than fluids vertically were OP. Perhaps that’s one reason, among many, that BTB has been retired.
Also I’m not really here to support perpetual monopolies on ideas. I think IP as it’s practiced is somewhat problematic.
Also I agree that it would be absurd to yell at somebody for using a gameshark, but the difference here is that in this case will new adoptees even realize they are using a gameshark ?
Both parties are ultimately guilty here of putting impositions on how people play. Forge compatibility will lead to those ignorant of the carefully designed balance in BTW to not be able to experience it because it’s tremendously diluted in a sea of features. They cannot effectively evaluate BTW because BTW is not a screw pump or a hopper. BTW is the emergent property of those blocks as well as limitations to create a unique experience that would be lost like giving the protagonist in Amnesia a chain gun. Your denying them that experience unless they know for certain what that experience is and elect to have it modified in such a way that it’s made easier.
Once you have a means to generate infinite lava and move that into a can which goes into a centrifuge which generates infinite iron you have just reduced the incentive to make a mob trap. We cannot simply say give the people everything because BTW is not a choice between a thermopile and a windmill. BTW essence is that it limits player power so by giving them “everything” you eliminating their ability to experience BTW. This should be evident in that recent alterations to BTW involved removing features that vanilla established.
The pro-BWF position argues that it wants to give players what they want but it’s clear that many people don’t have a clear understanding of the challenges of BTW, as I stated earlier BTW has had big forge tech mod defectors in the past, and will likely now find it even more difficult to truly understand what BTW is like because they will believe they are playing it when they really are not.
I’m not evoking any legal precedent here, I’m saying that the parties involved with BWF development could invariably be doing a lot of damage to a mod they didn’t make and they have not even acknowledged or failed to recognize these issues. They seem to be operating as if the ultimate outcome of their efforts is Pareto optimal.
I understand your view. I don't disagree with you entirely. I just don't see respect as a binary matter. It's not either on or off, it is both constant and situational. At birth we can all agree that everyone should be treated equally. We have no opinions, no hatred or deceit or lies. We are pure.
However we aren't always that way, we grow up, we learn and understand things and it is here that we begin to formulate opinions and our own personal bias'. We learn the difference between right and wrong and have a primitive understanding based on instinctive actions of what we perceive to be good and bad.
surely then given the age we live in that you can understand that respect fluctuates, it differs from your human rights, it is the concept of human understanding and opinion based on your most recent actions. You can also agree then that what FC is doing here can only damage his respectability. He is trying to show that the creators of BWF are in the wrong but only by insulting them publicly and not attempting to either make peace or talk out a plan that both parties can agree to. These mindless shenanigans will only end up hurting him more than it will hurt those at Forge.
We keep seeing the word "copy" and the word "steal". The idea of BWF is legally if not ethically sound as we already know. The ethics of such modtheft are shaky. I personally wouldn't agree with having my property stolen but it's not really theft either. The mod is being re-written from the ground up to work with Forge. It's bringing the mod to many players who previously couldn't use it in conjuction with their other mods or to players who had never even heard of it.
If I were in FC's shoes I'd be delighted to have the opportunity to bring the mod, that I've worked on for hundreds of hours, to a brand new audience and if I wasn't entirely happy with it at first I would discuss it with those involved and try and work something out. What we saw was a complete shutout by FC, a shutout of those that were at one point his friends too. This doesn't and never will shine those at Forge in a bad light. It just makes FC look ridiculous and divides an already relatively small community.
I disagree that what FC is doing here will only hurt his respectability. I for one have only had more respect for the way he's handled this, and his very mature responses, especially considering the fact that he's just had someone with an alias clearly meant to be a cheap insult at his own name, come and try to ride off something he spent a year and a half dedicating his time to, and distributing, for free, to the minecraft community. If I was in a similar situation, I would be Furious. Unlike FC, however, i wouldn't have managed to keep a clear enough head to respond in a mature a manner has he as been doing.
And if you were in FC's shoes, you wouldn't have cared about new audiences. FC has himself stated over and over that popularity has never been one of his goals; delivering excellent and well balanced gameplay is. In this respect, having someone blatantly imitate your hard work while insulting you and having them pretend that somehow they're in the moral high ground, is not something to be happy about. at all.
And FC has very good reasons for not wanting to be on forge. First, it takes a long time for it to update, because of just how extensive it is. This means that he has to wait for forge to update to a new version before he can even start working on his own compatibility update. Keep in mind that BTW updated to the hellish SMP merge update only two days after forge itself was updated, and far before any of the other major mods dependent on forge did. This is no mean feat, as the SMP merge was a serious rewrite of code that took people weeks to do if your mod was anywhere near a decent size.
Secondly, he didn't get along with other members of the team, due to personality incompatibilities. Why would he want to work with the forge team, when they simply don't get along? Nothing good can come out of making people who clash all the time work with each other, except a good soap opera.
I'm pretty sure there were other reasons as well, but those were the two major ones I can recall.
And this BWF thing, as pointed out, has other issues. One being that people are going to come to FC and ask him to bug fix things with BWF, eating up his time having to deal with new people wanting to know why their game is buggy as Nether, when they're not even playing his game. It also ruins the balance of his mod, the balance that he very diligently spent his many months working on. It sets a terrible precedent for other mods who will now have to worry about forge ripping off their mod if they decide not to use forge, which means creativity overall goes down. That means the amount of mods goes down.
I understand what you are saying about how FC's is damaging his reputation more. And I agree. But that doesn't mean that I suddenly find the forgegang less hypocrite about this. The ones that require permission for anything done with their mod, didn't take a stance, simply because they don't like FC.
Maybe you misunderstand me and assume that my opinion is that it is wrong to copy someone's mod or use it in a modpack. I left this out on purpose to avoid confusion and because it is irrelevant what my opinion is about that. What matters is, that the group of modders who laughed about BWF and thought it was funny and ok, some of them are dead against copying and using without permission. This is what I am talking about. They are falling for double standards and don't seem to see it (or don't care because it is FC's mod.)
Their use of the abbreviation BWF (stab at BTW) and the creator's name Floweradult (stab at the irony they see in FC's name), made it obvious to me that they are not being objective in this matter. But even without this blatant trolling I would still have the same opinion about this.
From now on I laugh at them everytime they start talking about permission to use their mods in a modpack. They turned their permission threads into a joke.
Or maybe it's not really a port, maybe it's a joke mod that's meant to be a poke at FlowerChild. If it turns out that way, maybe we could look back and laugh at the situation. But as far as I see, it's a port.
Great. If you don't like it, make your own private compatibility patch and you can enjoy your unbalanced BTW with forge. As far as I know, FC cares less if you make your own private patch, as long as you don't publically distribute it.
Otherwise, you should respect the mod author's wishes. You know, the mod author that is spending all his time and effort making you content you enjoy.
Then surely it would be a better idea to discuss that with them rather than this communal division. I'm more inclined to listen to someone if they represent a good case rather than if they start screaming abuse and derogatives at me. This slugfest provides the people at BWF with motivation to keep going with their project.
I don't represent either party and am not here to defend personalities just talent. I don't even know or communicate with mod authors, i just play their titles. My interests are that BTW author flowerchild continues to develop quality product and that hopefully more and more people recognize his talents. I'm very concerned it could become buried under large volumes of additions of other mod components that are not developed around a similar philosophy.
The opposition of this argument is evoking freedom to play the way you want to play but as i said playing BTW involves limits, not expansion of capabilities of the player.
Personally, I find it amusing that the people who are staunchly (Note, staunchly: as in having shown literally no admission that what has happened is wrong at all) against FlowerChild consistently bring up the argument that it isn't illegal, that it BWF is actually a code wrapper, and that Minecraft is a sandbox game.
Seriously, I've got a bone to pick with him too... but I'm not going to do that by supporting the ripping off of his work. I also can't believe that a moderator actually got involved in this on the anti-FlowerChild wagon. I can't believe I'm saying this, but FlowerChild should apply to be a moderator the next time this site needs them. Lord knows we need some biased in the other direction, or unbiased... which will never happen. (Note: I do not believe FlowerChild will actually do this. It would be a waste of his time and he'd probably be extremely strict... which is a bad thing in a kansurhole like this one. Too much backlash)
I should mention that I meant FC should maybe have discussed it with the Forge instead of responding in that explosive outburst rather than you personally discuss it with them.
Then surely it would be a better idea to discuss that with them rather than this communal division. I'm more inclined to listen to someone if they represent a good case rather than if they start screaming abuse and derogatives at me. This slugfest provides the people at BWF with motivation to keep going with their project.
I, on the other hand, find that I am seldom in the mood to engage in rational discourse with someone when that person has, whether it be by action or inaction, knowingly allowed something to be done that goes directly against my explicitly stated wishes. For all practical purposes, any necessary has already taken place, as FlowerChild never made it the least bit ambiguous as to what the state of permission was for a forge version of Better Than Wolves. Clearly, no one had the courtesy to ask permission before making BwF, and had they asked, it would not have been giving. However, the mod was made anyway, with the creators hiding behind technicalities and public sentiment to cover for what they did.
Had this really been simply about adding features, a new mod could have been created. Or several. There would be more features than just those that BTW has. Those that are implemented would have been done differently. If they were able to port to Forge, then they had the skill to make something that could stand on its own. The fact that they decided to make an outright clone, blatantly named it to display such, and that someone responsible for it made their username a parody of FlowerChild's own goes beyond mere imitation. They are quite openly flaunting what they have done, and in essence taunting FlowerChild with it. In that "Better With Forge" is less about meeting any community demand that exists, and more on the lines of petty trolling, done on a grand scale.
Had the mod been an original work, even if it were using similar concepts and features, there would be no controversy. It would simply be a competing mod. However, the way in which the mod was produced is what makes it such a source of friction. This was not made to be a tribute to FlowerChild's ability as a modder, as that would have required getting it endorsed as an acceptable compromise to making the code directly readable to Forge. It does not appear to have been made, in fact, with any intention to respect the original author, or else it would have been scrapped and an apology given when FlowerChild made it plain that it was not a welcome creation. At worst, BtW is plagiarism. At best, FlowerChild is correct in calling it a declaration that if someone makes a popular mod, it will be made for Forge whether they like it or not. As has been said before, condoning that sort of behaviour makes the Forge team no better than the creators of "illegal" modpacks.
I should mention that I meant FC should maybe have discussed it with the Forge instead of responding in that explosive outburst rather than you personally discuss it with them.
Regardless of what the author does or does not do does no excuse BWF development from diluting BTW.
You can say this, and people accuse me of comparing apples to oranges? (Which has always been a silly metaphor, by the by. It is actually quite easy to compare apples to oranges.)
This, on the other hand, I'm inclined to agree with. When peole's arguments involve sentiments like "Forge is vastly superior to anything else.", you would be hard-pressed to say that they are being made impartially. The facts remain that FlowerChild expressly states in all materials related to Better Than Wolves that people are expressly forbidden from porting, modifying, or otherwise redistributing it. Whether or not you agree with the right to make those claims existing, common courtesy would dictate that one should not go against them. The desires of the creator should be respected, not met with an attitude of "Nyah-nyah~ You can't stop meeee~!". Not liking someone is no excuse for treating them churlishly. Also, in case anyone wants to tell me that those behind Better With Forge do not have such an attitude, let me point out that Lex flat-out stated to FlowerChild in that conversation everyone is so fond of bringing up that he couldn't "stop us from doing whatever we want".
This is probably the only thing that i ever agreed with with FC. Their constant condemnation of the technic pack, even currently despite their views on BWF's legitimacy (not disputing it), i would kike to quote lex here.
LexManos: And we feel that we want to play your mod
LexManos: Weither you like it or not
LexManos: We're not saying that, we're saying that its not your job to stop us from doing whatever we want.
LexManos: As I've stated many times, your mod is cool, you are a head.
It's also been said by the developers of BWF as well.
But that's beyond the point. The point is the amount of disrespect toward what is considered a good mod.
I don't like the Forge devs, but I still use the API because it's the best one out there, and most modders use it.
He can do something. It's called voicing your opinion, when you feel wronged, you should say so, whether you can do something or not.
You're being a hypocrite by saying this you know. You're also saying something when you're not getting anywhere.
Yes and your also wasting your time. I literally have nothing better to do right now. Watching you idiots screw around and drum up hype for BwF was fun but it's just gotten stupid. He voiced his opinion. All he's doing at this point is ensuring more people know about BwF.
I know rigth? unfortunatly im out of upvote token
Source? I didn't know FA made a public appearance yet.
Coincidentally, the statement CheapShot made on this was one of only things to come out of the Technic scene that I agreed with as well. It's a pretty sad day when our two communities who have been so classically in opposition actually agree on something
The stance they're taking with BWF, and the one they take with Technic are incompatible. I've said it before and I'll say it again, that at least the Technic guys have the courage of their own convictions and consistently stand behind their point of view.
We're seeing no such courage from the Forge scene at present. They made one 7 hour video stating their support for BWF over and over again, and ever since have simply spouted one denial after another about it, which to me, is a direct insult to whomever they are spouting such transparent nonsense to. This is all while they promote their "legitimate" alternative to Technic with the FTB mod-pack.
*That* is why I have consistently called Lex on this every chance I get and continued to highlight his involvement in the whole thing, instead of spinning my wheels and making this about someone who is so lacking in courage as to hide behind an alias to an alias to disguise their involvement.
Maybe to you I'm wasting my time. But not me.
But however, here it is for you guys. If you can't respect FlowerChild as a person, then at least respect him as a modder by not porting his mod. Is that so hard?
Maybe you need to just look around, because I don't have the source at the moment.
But still, beyond the point.
Why don't you just go play some Minecraft?
I'm here because I believe that when you feel that something is objectionable, you should say so. I believe that you should try to sway people's opinions in the hope that maybe it will make a difference. According to what you just said, you are only here because you are bored and want to stir up trouble.
The ultimate issue at hand is will new adopters of these forge mods understand the carefully crafted balance and design features implemented into the game. If you say well I want an easy way to transmit things vertically and BTW solution is something I want to bypass then your demonstrating you DO POSSESS an intimate knowledge of what you’re in store for and the costs you’re going to incur. What is not obvious is that everybody who will play BWF with other big tech mods knows this or even has general understanding of the divergence between many of the tech mods were power is granted with very small amounts of effort to achieve.
If you want windmills eloraam is copying them so you don’t need BTW for that.
To your second point I made it explicit I was talking about big tech mods not small vanity mods. Naïve gamers who install mods will likely install the big ones and we all know what those are. Balkon’s weapons mod: BTW you really have to automate to get projectile, feathers or rotted arrows, Balkon gives you other sources of projectiles devaluing BTW automated systems that provide projectiles.
As far as BTB those two techtrees were highly dependent on each other however I will agree that having pneumatic pipes move items vertically was an affront to the pully/rope system. Maybe when BTW techs up to drive-through banking it will make more sense but I always thought pipes that move things other than fluids vertically were OP. Perhaps that’s one reason, among many, that BTB has been retired.
Also I’m not really here to support perpetual monopolies on ideas. I think IP as it’s practiced is somewhat problematic.
Also I agree that it would be absurd to yell at somebody for using a gameshark, but the difference here is that in this case will new adoptees even realize they are using a gameshark ?
Both parties are ultimately guilty here of putting impositions on how people play. Forge compatibility will lead to those ignorant of the carefully designed balance in BTW to not be able to experience it because it’s tremendously diluted in a sea of features. They cannot effectively evaluate BTW because BTW is not a screw pump or a hopper. BTW is the emergent property of those blocks as well as limitations to create a unique experience that would be lost like giving the protagonist in Amnesia a chain gun. Your denying them that experience unless they know for certain what that experience is and elect to have it modified in such a way that it’s made easier.
Once you have a means to generate infinite lava and move that into a can which goes into a centrifuge which generates infinite iron you have just reduced the incentive to make a mob trap. We cannot simply say give the people everything because BTW is not a choice between a thermopile and a windmill. BTW essence is that it limits player power so by giving them “everything” you eliminating their ability to experience BTW. This should be evident in that recent alterations to BTW involved removing features that vanilla established.
The pro-BWF position argues that it wants to give players what they want but it’s clear that many people don’t have a clear understanding of the challenges of BTW, as I stated earlier BTW has had big forge tech mod defectors in the past, and will likely now find it even more difficult to truly understand what BTW is like because they will believe they are playing it when they really are not.
I’m not evoking any legal precedent here, I’m saying that the parties involved with BWF development could invariably be doing a lot of damage to a mod they didn’t make and they have not even acknowledged or failed to recognize these issues. They seem to be operating as if the ultimate outcome of their efforts is Pareto optimal.
I disagree that what FC is doing here will only hurt his respectability. I for one have only had more respect for the way he's handled this, and his very mature responses, especially considering the fact that he's just had someone with an alias clearly meant to be a cheap insult at his own name, come and try to ride off something he spent a year and a half dedicating his time to, and distributing, for free, to the minecraft community. If I was in a similar situation, I would be Furious. Unlike FC, however, i wouldn't have managed to keep a clear enough head to respond in a mature a manner has he as been doing.
And if you were in FC's shoes, you wouldn't have cared about new audiences. FC has himself stated over and over that popularity has never been one of his goals; delivering excellent and well balanced gameplay is. In this respect, having someone blatantly imitate your hard work while insulting you and having them pretend that somehow they're in the moral high ground, is not something to be happy about. at all.
And FC has very good reasons for not wanting to be on forge. First, it takes a long time for it to update, because of just how extensive it is. This means that he has to wait for forge to update to a new version before he can even start working on his own compatibility update. Keep in mind that BTW updated to the hellish SMP merge update only two days after forge itself was updated, and far before any of the other major mods dependent on forge did. This is no mean feat, as the SMP merge was a serious rewrite of code that took people weeks to do if your mod was anywhere near a decent size.
Secondly, he didn't get along with other members of the team, due to personality incompatibilities. Why would he want to work with the forge team, when they simply don't get along? Nothing good can come out of making people who clash all the time work with each other, except a good soap opera.
I'm pretty sure there were other reasons as well, but those were the two major ones I can recall.
And this BWF thing, as pointed out, has other issues. One being that people are going to come to FC and ask him to bug fix things with BWF, eating up his time having to deal with new people wanting to know why their game is buggy as Nether, when they're not even playing his game. It also ruins the balance of his mod, the balance that he very diligently spent his many months working on. It sets a terrible precedent for other mods who will now have to worry about forge ripping off their mod if they decide not to use forge, which means creativity overall goes down. That means the amount of mods goes down.
Something here stinks, but it's not FC.
Or maybe it's not really a port, maybe it's a joke mod that's meant to be a poke at FlowerChild. If it turns out that way, maybe we could look back and laugh at the situation. But as far as I see, it's a port.
Not everyone cares about the balance
Don't involve the whole "forge" team the only names being brought up in ties with BWF are LexManos FlowerAdult and Ezekielelin
Great. If you don't like it, make your own private compatibility patch and you can enjoy your unbalanced BTW with forge. As far as I know, FC cares less if you make your own private patch, as long as you don't publically distribute it.
Otherwise, you should respect the mod author's wishes. You know, the mod author that is spending all his time and effort making you content you enjoy.
I don't represent either party and am not here to defend personalities just talent. I don't even know or communicate with mod authors, i just play their titles. My interests are that BTW author flowerchild continues to develop quality product and that hopefully more and more people recognize his talents. I'm very concerned it could become buried under large volumes of additions of other mod components that are not developed around a similar philosophy.
The opposition of this argument is evoking freedom to play the way you want to play but as i said playing BTW involves limits, not expansion of capabilities of the player.
Seriously, I've got a bone to pick with him too... but I'm not going to do that by supporting the ripping off of his work. I also can't believe that a moderator actually got involved in this on the anti-FlowerChild wagon. I can't believe I'm saying this, but FlowerChild should apply to be a moderator the next time this site needs them. Lord knows we need some biased in the other direction, or unbiased... which will never happen. (Note: I do not believe FlowerChild will actually do this. It would be a waste of his time and he'd probably be extremely strict... which is a bad thing in a kansurhole like this one. Too much backlash)
Iirc there had been an ongoing effort to convince FC to return to Forge before BWF surfaced.
By ongoing effort, I mean people within Forge's dev team making contact with FC (I know there was an effort to make it compatible with FML, but beyond this I am making assumptions)
If this was the case then i do not see the outburst being uncalled for in the least.
I, on the other hand, find that I am seldom in the mood to engage in rational discourse with someone when that person has, whether it be by action or inaction, knowingly allowed something to be done that goes directly against my explicitly stated wishes. For all practical purposes, any necessary has already taken place, as FlowerChild never made it the least bit ambiguous as to what the state of permission was for a forge version of Better Than Wolves. Clearly, no one had the courtesy to ask permission before making BwF, and had they asked, it would not have been giving. However, the mod was made anyway, with the creators hiding behind technicalities and public sentiment to cover for what they did.
Had this really been simply about adding features, a new mod could have been created. Or several. There would be more features than just those that BTW has. Those that are implemented would have been done differently. If they were able to port to Forge, then they had the skill to make something that could stand on its own. The fact that they decided to make an outright clone, blatantly named it to display such, and that someone responsible for it made their username a parody of FlowerChild's own goes beyond mere imitation. They are quite openly flaunting what they have done, and in essence taunting FlowerChild with it. In that "Better With Forge" is less about meeting any community demand that exists, and more on the lines of petty trolling, done on a grand scale.
Had the mod been an original work, even if it were using similar concepts and features, there would be no controversy. It would simply be a competing mod. However, the way in which the mod was produced is what makes it such a source of friction. This was not made to be a tribute to FlowerChild's ability as a modder, as that would have required getting it endorsed as an acceptable compromise to making the code directly readable to Forge. It does not appear to have been made, in fact, with any intention to respect the original author, or else it would have been scrapped and an apology given when FlowerChild made it plain that it was not a welcome creation. At worst, BtW is plagiarism. At best, FlowerChild is correct in calling it a declaration that if someone makes a popular mod, it will be made for Forge whether they like it or not. As has been said before, condoning that sort of behaviour makes the Forge team no better than the creators of "illegal" modpacks.
Regardless of what the author does or does not do does no excuse BWF development from diluting BTW.