It's now impossible to have an intricate alchemy lab without either requiring excessive manual input or huge redstone constructs which negate the appeal of a theme build. Using golems to move essentia around seems to be the next option to consider, but doing so for a wide variety of essentia will simply become utter chaos and a horde of golems running around doing exactly what you could probably do more quickly and efficiently yourself.
Try *one* alchemy golem attached to a bank of warded jars.
The very notion of " one pipeline per essentia needed" is utterly ridiculous and inefficient, negating the very point of even having such a system in the first place
Yup, it's completely ridiculous to have a pipe which can only carry one type of liquid at a time. There's no reason this might break suspension of disbelief for a lot of people including the mod author. Also there are no builds in which a small number of different types of essentia can be effeciently piped around to make a nice automated system. None of these have been demonstrated in this thread or in videos on YouTube.
In fact, this whole topic hasn't been completely discussed to death in the last couple hundred posts, and you have contributed substantially with lots of new opinions.
The quarries are easier to set up, you must remember the fact that with the bore, you don't need to wait an hour to get to diamond level. Add that to enchantments(Fortune is always nice), and it becomes much more worth while. The swords flight is very limited and slow, the harness is just better over all. As for dungeon loot, everything is uncommon. If you gamble and don't get repair, or you loss the pick, just "Finding" another isn't as simple as you put it. Being able to make a new one is easier then hoping to find one again. As for the "Armors not worth it", thaumiom is better then iron and cheaper then diamond. A nice middle ground, I say.
As for "Costing more then it's worth", compared to other mods, TC is cheap. Most mods flight mechanics need diamonds. TC only needs iron and gold, and a few other items. Most of what TC uses is stuff you don't normally use or make, but they rarely cost a lot. As for "One pipe per essentia", your thinking of essentia as one liquid. If you think of them as separate liquids that can't mix, then one pipe per essentia fits. For a liquid steam boiler, you have one pipeline for the water, one for the fuel, and several for the steam. If you apply that logic to essentia tubes, then you start seeing how to make bigger systems.
It seems like you prefer tech mods, where you can automate everything down to dotting your i's and crossing your t's for you. I find that most magic mods don't go for "Automate EVERYTHING!" and lean more to "You'll have have the power to make wonderful things, but you must do it yourself." Look at other magic mods, and you'll find many have you do most of the work by hand. It's just two different play styles, and part of why I love magic mods.
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Question not the mad-mans ways, for you may begin to see logic in his actions, then find yourself mad as well.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
Also there are no builds in which a small number of different types of essentia can be effeciently piped around to make a nice automated system. None of these have been demonstrated in this thread or in videos on YouTube.
Really? TPB has made a completely automated and golemless essentia sorting system. It's been posted several times in this thread.
I had also posted about a system that fully automates the fueling of a lamp of fertility. This system also has many useful byproducts such as meat nuggets, vacous essentia, motus essentia, fabric essentia, leather, feathers and eggs. For reference, here it is again:
There are golems moving the meat into the alchemical and infernal furnace in the background that's not shown in the screenshot.
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Due to my snarky and sarcastic personality I can easily be seen as a jerk. If I've offended you in any way it was likely unintended.
Well, thaumcraft balances useful and relatively cheap items and tools with the work you need to make them. Why make something cost a silly amount of diamonds when you could instead have the player put in some manual work? Why have you craft a dozen componats to craft one item?(I'm looking at you, IC2 and gregtech). Why block off end-game stuff with pricy recipes when we have the research system?
In the end, thaumcraft just isn't what your looking for. We like the manual work, knowing that what we made was done by hand. Tech mods are all well and good, but they will never replace the place magic mods have in my heart.Also, crafting a stack of nitor is VERY time consuming. I know how to automate it in an auto crucible, and will continue to do so.
Automation should never be "easy" or "Simple" for a magic mod. Leave that to the tech guys.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Question not the mad-mans ways, for you may begin to see logic in his actions, then find yourself mad as well.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
Really? TPB has made a completely automated and golemless essentia sorting system. It's been posted several times in this thread.
I apologize. I was engaging in heavy sarcasm. I should have at least marked it as such, although I probably should have just skipped it.
The point I was making there was exactly that a number of people had demonstrated interesting builds of a variety of complexities, which Censuur seemed to be completely ignoring for the sake of a claim that if pipes can't fully and simply automate essentia distillation for an infusion crafting setup then they're useless.
I was just getting cranky with Censuur's rants about how much TC4 sucks, much of the content of which were repeats of the same things we've heard time and again since the pipes update.
I apologize. I was engaging in heavy sarcasm. I should have at least marked it as such, although I probably should have just skipped it.
The point I was making there was exactly that a number of people had demonstrated interesting builds of a variety of complexities, which Censuur seemed to be completely ignoring for the sake of a claim that if pipes can't fully and simply automate essentia distillation for an infusion crafting setup then they're useless.
I was just getting cranky with Censuur's rants about how much TC4 sucks, much of the content of which were repeats of the same things we've heard time and again since the pipes update.
We're all getting tired of it. But this sort of thing always happens when an over powered thing gets nerfed. I've made all the points I can for TC, if he doesn't like it then that is his opinion. I'm happy with the way things are now, as it is a fitting magic mod.
I glad at least someone understands the fact that sometimes a mechanic needs a good old nerf. We may not like it, but it was still needed.
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Question not the mad-mans ways, for you may begin to see logic in his actions, then find yourself mad as well.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
I would use X(Pipes) in place of Y(Alchemy golems) when a build is so small and simple that a golem isn't needed. Why use a tank when a cannon works fine?
As for "Illogical pipes", the thaumonomicon states that essentia can be unstable and dangerous. If the two are going to mix(whether it be from mixing with an already full jar, or just a partially filled one.) , we have the lore of "Safe guards trigger, stopping essentia from mixing before it is too late and very bad things happen".
To your "Limited space" point, a golem takes up even less space, so you can place jars where you once had pipes.
While we could use a few more things for pipes, as it stands they do the job they are meant to do, and do it well. But this is just one madman's opinion.
At least its not as bad as AM2 is... talk about a pointless time sink there.
But on the subject of TC4.1. After spending well over 10+hrs with this "new" version I have to say I still hate the research system. I hated 4.0 research, and I hate this. The "aspect" hunting is NOT fun, and running out of aspects despite going well out of my way to be sure to scan everything, put up crystals, put up bookcases, put up enchanting tables, etc.. so that I can have more aspects... I have STILL RUN OUT OF ASPECTS. I honestly don't know how anyone can seriously finish all the research on TC4.1 without cheating in aspects unless you want to wait 4-5 days on a mana bean farm..
I think the main problem with the current aspect system is that if you have any ADDONS for TC4.1, they too will consume some of your aspects for researching, but they are not adding enough NEW sources of aspects to make up for the ones that get spent.
I am also still not a fan of the "New" nodes system in TC4/4/1, I miss the old style nodes..
Censuur, I sort of think that's part of the point. Automation isn't something for when you only have to do a thing once every so often. If you're going to implement the complicated systems, you're apparently going to be running it a lot. If not, a thaumium golem with a few upgrades will run your alembics just fine. You could conceivably rig a giant system to keep you permanently supplied with 128 of each essentia as long as you have the equipment, but what's the point if you're only going to use it once in a blue moon?
The old pipe system WAS useful, but it was causing severe issues with lag. Azanor didn't like it being that simple, and honestly, I agree. I like being able to automate things, I love applied energistics, but Thaumcraft feels different, and I'm sure it's supposed to. I will agree that making pipes does get a little annoying, and I'm pretty sure you're supposed to make the autocharging pedestal for that. Golems and pipes now do two very different things with essentia, and pipes are now much less user-friendly. Think of it more a feat of engineering than of plumbing.
Essentially, there's the long way of doing things, and the long long way of doing things that makes things much shorter afterwards. As for doing things in survival, some people enjoy looking at a labor of a long time. I personally hate using creative to spawn items in, it makes me feel like I've cheated myself.
And finally, there's a mod that's looking to integrate AE cells with Thaumcraft, letting you store essentia in it in what amounts to a single block instead of walls of jars. I'm not sure how well it's going to work, but it's worth looking into, I think.
Also, Xionanx, for aspects, the sources are technically unlimited, because you can always scan new nodes, though it requires more exploring and takes a lot more time, as well as the deconstruction table, which could maybe use a boost to let it store research points? I don't recall if that's changed, given that I didn't have to use mine since relatively early on when I needed aer, and not since 4.1
~snip~
And lastly, just because many people said it before doesn't make it any less valid for me to say so again, if so many people find the system disagreeable, maybe, just maybe, they might be on to something? You can dismiss such opinions all you want, but for all your own dismissal of such critique only proves the necessity of hammering the point home. We can agree the old system was too easy, broken, overpowered or w/e you wish to call it, but replacing one broken system with another is no solution and we should not accept "different" just because they old wasn't what we wanted it to be.
Well, most of the people who complaind had already built systems using pipes that now will not work. What Azanor did was something needed. If we went with the idea of "Pipes can get over-loaded then explode with flux" then we would have even more people here complaining... In the end, pipes aren't smart. They can't think, they can't sort, they can't say "This is holds a different essentia type, so I'll try the next jar". That is why golems are meant for bigger infution altar setups: they can think. They might not be the brightest things in the world, but they are smarter then a pipe.As for them not liking stairs, you can blame vanilla path finding for that. Azanor has said he might try and change it to make them less drepy.
Considering what Azanor had to work with, there were few ways to get it right. He picked the lesser of two evils, and this is the result.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Question not the mad-mans ways, for you may begin to see logic in his actions, then find yourself mad as well.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
Agreed, Mrvideogame.
I think that all that can be said has been said about the pipe nerf.
Should we make a similar agreement to update spams, and just ignore them?
Or can we as a group move forward?
On a different note, I have had lots of fun with my zombie siege world,
where a sinister node spawned at the base of my peninsula.
I could have moved but the challenge of living in this quirky hostile environment was fun.
(I solved it with punji sticks, pit traps, and drying racks, living off their flesh)
Who else had an interesting thaumcraft spawn?
To balance out some of the negativity, let me repeat once again that I utterly, totally, unhesitatingly L-O-V-E the infusion altar and the infusion crafting/enchanting mechanism. Infusion enchanting is the best thing to happen to enchanting in Minecraft EVER.
I simply will never be an enthusiastic golemancer, period. i find them frustratingly unreliable, and dislike using them for any but the simplest and most repetitive tasks on dead level ground. I find it easier and a more effective use of my time to simply collect essentia from my alembics by hand than to try to make my essentia distillation column work either with golems or with post-nerf tubes.
To balance out some of the negativity, let me repeat once again that I utterly, totally, unhesitatingly L-O-V-E the infusion altar and the infusion crafting/enchanting mechanism. Infusion enchanting is the best thing to happen to enchanting in Minecraft EVER.
I simply will never be an enthusiastic golemancer, period. i find them frustratingly unreliable, and dislike using them for any but the simplest and most repetitive tasks on dead level ground. I find it easier and a more effective use of my time to simply collect essentia from my alembics by hand than to try to make my essentia distillation column work either with golems or with post-nerf tubes.
I also love the infusion system. It is the sort of change real automaters love. "Alright, we've made automation as hard as possible. I dare you to try." And I have automated it to some extent, but it may always need a watchful eye.
I also love the research system as a balance point. Compared to other mods, late and end game stuff is cheap because of the work you need to do to be able to know how to make it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Question not the mad-mans ways, for you may begin to see logic in his actions, then find yourself mad as well.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
Also, Xionanx, for aspects, the sources are technically unlimited, because you can always scan new nodes, though it requires more exploring and takes a lot more time, as well as the deconstruction table, which could maybe use a boost to let it store research points? I don't recall if that's changed, given that I didn't have to use mine since relatively early on when I needed aer, and not since 4.1
I actually have a silverwood tree farm going with about 50 trees being cycled to produce new nodes to scan.. and I STILL DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH ASPECTS.
I'm not "new" to Thaumcraft, I know the "tricks".. the problem I have is that research has essentially been screwed since TC4, there needs to be a happy medium. I like the direction with the "auto-learn" option, but the research table itself it still boring and tedious, the aspect situation is just .
I thought one of the goals for the original mod was to get away from having 30+ aspects all lots and lots of various little things to keep track of, but it seems like there is more micromanagement now then there ever was. I want to get my research done so I can start USING things, not spend all my time making a whoozit, so i can make a bloosoo, to make a jebabi, to make a loadke, so i can finally make a wand that can store enough vis to be useful.
Seriously, I have to build an entire alchemy infrastructure just to make a silverwood wand.. an infrastructure that will see very little use once I have made the items I need.
Personally, i would like to see the research table gone, the research aspects gone, and in its place "practical experimentation" with the infusion alter.. where your alchemy derived essences see a lot more use, and the altar is how you learn and research by combining different things. When you get the right "combo" of items + essentia, you get completed research notes..
I've liked both research systems from TC4 and TC4.1(But then again I'm mad, so I might be the minority). The reseach system from TC3 was one I disliked do to the randomness, needing to spend items to move forward.(My luck has always been rather bad, so research was slow.) With this new system, it is a puzzle. At no point is it down to luck, only skill at figaring out the best way to connect them. In the end, I feel like I did something to get what I want, not just "You already know how to make everything, despite the fact that seconds ago you were banging sticks together". I also like the concept of "You need to look at the world around you to learn how to use it. Besides, the research system can be set to "Easy" mode(You strait up buy all researches).
As for your idea, it would quickly be redundant. Someone would make a list, then everyone would reach end-game in an hour. I like the current systems aspect of "You need to work for your research. This is your toll for knowledge, and thus power". But I am very mad from my time as a blood mage, so take everything I say with a gran of salus mundes.
I loved the research in 4.0 (and found it to be a vast improvement over the research system in TC3) and had little to no issues with it. The changes made in 4.1 are nice, though I now have to remember to set the config to enable hard mode (all research must be completed in the research table) since I don't particularly care for the ability to "purchase" research. I have had no problems progressing through the mod, and I did not and do not use cheat sheets.
Research has never been difficult in Thaumcraft 4. The majority of difficulty expressed is (or was) often due to the user not approaching things with a logical mind, often spamming random aspects in an attempt to complete research rather than look at it and use logical thinking to figure out which aspects are most likely involved.
I also don't consider running out of research points a bad thing. It's similar to most anything else in the game, where you need to continue gathering resources for what you want to accomplish, be it cobblestone, diamonds, or research points to name a few. You run out, you go get more. That's not a problem as far as I'm concerned.
The fact that you seem to be relying on nodes made from a silverwood tree farm in order to gain your research points is a big factor in why you keep running short. There are hundreds of things to scan besides nodes, and I seriously doubt you've scanned everything possible. Even still, nodes that are created at worldgen tend to have far more aspects within them than nodes you've made from a Silverwood, at least in my experiences. It would behoove you to actually venture into the world and scan nodes you find there as well as anything else you come across that hasn't been scanned.
Research points are common and abundant. Running out consistently would, to me, imply that you're doing something wrong with how you're going about accruing and spending them.
Nearly half of thaumcraft's content isn't worth it's cost (not even close) and pipes are one of the main problems here. Yes, you can automate small systems, but you can also manufacture any reasonable amount of products from such a system in easily half the time it'd take you to automate it. Take nitor for example, the sheer cost in time and resources to automate it would not be worth choosing it over the alternative of just crafting a few stacks manually and the same effectively goes for everything thaumcraft can "automate" And in the end, when all that "advanced" thaumcraft does is make things look pretty, it simply isn't worth the sheer investment of time required to get there in survival, you can make some great and entertaining things in creative with the current iteration of thaumcraft, but that's really the extent of it, unless you really have TOO much time to waste.
Censuur, if you don't like Thaumcraft, don't play Thaumcraft.If you don't like a recent change to Thaumcraft, don't update. If you think it's not fun to play with outside creative, don't use it in your survival worlds.
This thread is full of people who play with and enjoy Thaumcraft 4, so your constant, all-or-nothing complaints about the mod are a little out of place here. Please just go find a mod you actually like and leave us alone.
You want a farm, you grab a hoe. You want a boat, you grab some wood. You want a fireplace, you grab A FLAMING HELL-BOULDER BECAUSE THAT'S HOW MINECRAFTERS ROLL!!!
Why don't we just do a pro's cons list for TC4 research, here's my short list based on personal experience and the frequency of complaints I've seen in this thread over the past few months..
TC4 Research Cons:
1. Running out of research points with no immediately actionable way to get more. (IE. I need iron, I mine iron, I need AER and I??? run around hoping to find a node with AER?)
2. Boring "busy work" of staring at a table
3. Research time spent VS time spent using the results of said research is not in balance
TC4 Research Pros:
1. Its unique, no other mod does it AFAIK
Most of the items you research and create last practically forever (barring incidents like falling into lava), making the time spent researching and creating the items a good return on the investment.
Try *one* alchemy golem attached to a bank of warded jars.
Yup, it's completely ridiculous to have a pipe which can only carry one type of liquid at a time. There's no reason this might break suspension of disbelief for a lot of people including the mod author. Also there are no builds in which a small number of different types of essentia can be effeciently piped around to make a nice automated system. None of these have been demonstrated in this thread or in videos on YouTube.
In fact, this whole topic hasn't been completely discussed to death in the last couple hundred posts, and you have contributed substantially with lots of new opinions.
As for "Costing more then it's worth", compared to other mods, TC is cheap. Most mods flight mechanics need diamonds. TC only needs iron and gold, and a few other items. Most of what TC uses is stuff you don't normally use or make, but they rarely cost a lot. As for "One pipe per essentia", your thinking of essentia as one liquid. If you think of them as separate liquids that can't mix, then one pipe per essentia fits. For a liquid steam boiler, you have one pipeline for the water, one for the fuel, and several for the steam. If you apply that logic to essentia tubes, then you start seeing how to make bigger systems.
It seems like you prefer tech mods, where you can automate everything down to dotting your i's and crossing your t's for you. I find that most magic mods don't go for "Automate EVERYTHING!" and lean more to "You'll have have the power to make wonderful things, but you must do it yourself." Look at other magic mods, and you'll find many have you do most of the work by hand. It's just two different play styles, and part of why I love magic mods.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
Really? TPB has made a completely automated and golemless essentia sorting system. It's been posted several times in this thread.
I had also posted about a system that fully automates the fueling of a lamp of fertility. This system also has many useful byproducts such as meat nuggets, vacous essentia, motus essentia, fabric essentia, leather, feathers and eggs. For reference, here it is again:
There are golems moving the meat into the alchemical and infernal furnace in the background that's not shown in the screenshot.
In the end, thaumcraft just isn't what your looking for. We like the manual work, knowing that what we made was done by hand. Tech mods are all well and good, but they will never replace the place magic mods have in my heart.Also, crafting a stack of nitor is VERY time consuming. I know how to automate it in an auto crucible, and will continue to do so.
Automation should never be "easy" or "Simple" for a magic mod. Leave that to the tech guys.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
I apologize. I was engaging in heavy sarcasm. I should have at least marked it as such, although I probably should have just skipped it.
The point I was making there was exactly that a number of people had demonstrated interesting builds of a variety of complexities, which Censuur seemed to be completely ignoring for the sake of a claim that if pipes can't fully and simply automate essentia distillation for an infusion crafting setup then they're useless.
I was just getting cranky with Censuur's rants about how much TC4 sucks, much of the content of which were repeats of the same things we've heard time and again since the pipes update.
We're all getting tired of it. But this sort of thing always happens when an over powered thing gets nerfed. I've made all the points I can for TC, if he doesn't like it then that is his opinion. I'm happy with the way things are now, as it is a fitting magic mod.
I glad at least someone understands the fact that sometimes a mechanic needs a good old nerf. We may not like it, but it was still needed.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
As for "Illogical pipes", the thaumonomicon states that essentia can be unstable and dangerous. If the two are going to mix(whether it be from mixing with an already full jar, or just a partially filled one.) , we have the lore of "Safe guards trigger, stopping essentia from mixing before it is too late and very bad things happen".
To your "Limited space" point, a golem takes up even less space, so you can place jars where you once had pipes.
While we could use a few more things for pipes, as it stands they do the job they are meant to do, and do it well. But this is just one madman's opinion.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
But on the subject of TC4.1. After spending well over 10+hrs with this "new" version I have to say I still hate the research system. I hated 4.0 research, and I hate this. The "aspect" hunting is NOT fun, and running out of aspects despite going well out of my way to be sure to scan everything, put up crystals, put up bookcases, put up enchanting tables, etc.. so that I can have more aspects... I have STILL RUN OUT OF ASPECTS. I honestly don't know how anyone can seriously finish all the research on TC4.1 without cheating in aspects unless you want to wait 4-5 days on a mana bean farm..
I think the main problem with the current aspect system is that if you have any ADDONS for TC4.1, they too will consume some of your aspects for researching, but they are not adding enough NEW sources of aspects to make up for the ones that get spent.
I am also still not a fan of the "New" nodes system in TC4/4/1, I miss the old style nodes..
The old pipe system WAS useful, but it was causing severe issues with lag. Azanor didn't like it being that simple, and honestly, I agree. I like being able to automate things, I love applied energistics, but Thaumcraft feels different, and I'm sure it's supposed to. I will agree that making pipes does get a little annoying, and I'm pretty sure you're supposed to make the autocharging pedestal for that. Golems and pipes now do two very different things with essentia, and pipes are now much less user-friendly. Think of it more a feat of engineering than of plumbing.
Essentially, there's the long way of doing things, and the long long way of doing things that makes things much shorter afterwards. As for doing things in survival, some people enjoy looking at a labor of a long time. I personally hate using creative to spawn items in, it makes me feel like I've cheated myself.
And finally, there's a mod that's looking to integrate AE cells with Thaumcraft, letting you store essentia in it in what amounts to a single block instead of walls of jars. I'm not sure how well it's going to work, but it's worth looking into, I think.
Also, Xionanx, for aspects, the sources are technically unlimited, because you can always scan new nodes, though it requires more exploring and takes a lot more time, as well as the deconstruction table, which could maybe use a boost to let it store research points? I don't recall if that's changed, given that I didn't have to use mine since relatively early on when I needed aer, and not since 4.1
Well, most of the people who complaind had already built systems using pipes that now will not work. What Azanor did was something needed. If we went with the idea of "Pipes can get over-loaded then explode with flux" then we would have even more people here complaining... In the end, pipes aren't smart. They can't think, they can't sort, they can't say "This is holds a different essentia type, so I'll try the next jar". That is why golems are meant for bigger infution altar setups: they can think. They might not be the brightest things in the world, but they are smarter then a pipe.As for them not liking stairs, you can blame vanilla path finding for that. Azanor has said he might try and change it to make them less drepy.
Considering what Azanor had to work with, there were few ways to get it right. He picked the lesser of two evils, and this is the result.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
I think that all that can be said has been said about the pipe nerf.
Should we make a similar agreement to update spams, and just ignore them?
Or can we as a group move forward?
On a different note, I have had lots of fun with my zombie siege world,
where a sinister node spawned at the base of my peninsula.
I could have moved but the challenge of living in this quirky hostile environment was fun.
(I solved it with punji sticks, pit traps, and drying racks, living off their flesh)
Who else had an interesting thaumcraft spawn?
https://highfidelity.io
Very exciting.
I simply will never be an enthusiastic golemancer, period. i find them frustratingly unreliable, and dislike using them for any but the simplest and most repetitive tasks on dead level ground. I find it easier and a more effective use of my time to simply collect essentia from my alembics by hand than to try to make my essentia distillation column work either with golems or with post-nerf tubes.
I also love the research system as a balance point. Compared to other mods, late and end game stuff is cheap because of the work you need to do to be able to know how to make it.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
I actually have a silverwood tree farm going with about 50 trees being cycled to produce new nodes to scan.. and I STILL DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH ASPECTS.
I'm not "new" to Thaumcraft, I know the "tricks".. the problem I have is that research has essentially been screwed since TC4, there needs to be a happy medium. I like the direction with the "auto-learn" option, but the research table itself it still boring and tedious, the aspect situation is just .
I thought one of the goals for the original mod was to get away from having 30+ aspects all lots and lots of various little things to keep track of, but it seems like there is more micromanagement now then there ever was. I want to get my research done so I can start USING things, not spend all my time making a whoozit, so i can make a bloosoo, to make a jebabi, to make a loadke, so i can finally make a wand that can store enough vis to be useful.
Seriously, I have to build an entire alchemy infrastructure just to make a silverwood wand.. an infrastructure that will see very little use once I have made the items I need.
Personally, i would like to see the research table gone, the research aspects gone, and in its place "practical experimentation" with the infusion alter.. where your alchemy derived essences see a lot more use, and the altar is how you learn and research by combining different things. When you get the right "combo" of items + essentia, you get completed research notes..
As for your idea, it would quickly be redundant. Someone would make a list, then everyone would reach end-game in an hour. I like the current systems aspect of "You need to work for your research. This is your toll for knowledge, and thus power". But I am very mad from my time as a blood mage, so take everything I say with a gran of salus mundes.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
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Curse PremiumI loved the research in 4.0 (and found it to be a vast improvement over the research system in TC3) and had little to no issues with it. The changes made in 4.1 are nice, though I now have to remember to set the config to enable hard mode (all research must be completed in the research table) since I don't particularly care for the ability to "purchase" research. I have had no problems progressing through the mod, and I did not and do not use cheat sheets.
Research has never been difficult in Thaumcraft 4. The majority of difficulty expressed is (or was) often due to the user not approaching things with a logical mind, often spamming random aspects in an attempt to complete research rather than look at it and use logical thinking to figure out which aspects are most likely involved.
I also don't consider running out of research points a bad thing. It's similar to most anything else in the game, where you need to continue gathering resources for what you want to accomplish, be it cobblestone, diamonds, or research points to name a few. You run out, you go get more. That's not a problem as far as I'm concerned.
The fact that you seem to be relying on nodes made from a silverwood tree farm in order to gain your research points is a big factor in why you keep running short. There are hundreds of things to scan besides nodes, and I seriously doubt you've scanned everything possible. Even still, nodes that are created at worldgen tend to have far more aspects within them than nodes you've made from a Silverwood, at least in my experiences. It would behoove you to actually venture into the world and scan nodes you find there as well as anything else you come across that hasn't been scanned.
Research points are common and abundant. Running out consistently would, to me, imply that you're doing something wrong with how you're going about accruing and spending them.
Censuur, if you don't like Thaumcraft, don't play Thaumcraft.If you don't like a recent change to Thaumcraft, don't update. If you think it's not fun to play with outside creative, don't use it in your survival worlds.
This thread is full of people who play with and enjoy Thaumcraft 4, so your constant, all-or-nothing complaints about the mod are a little out of place here. Please just go find a mod you actually like and leave us alone.
TC4 Research Cons:
1. Running out of research points with no immediately actionable way to get more. (IE. I need iron, I mine iron, I need AER and I??? run around hoping to find a node with AER?)
2. Boring "busy work" of staring at a table
3. Research time spent VS time spent using the results of said research is not in balance
TC4 Research Pros:
1. Its unique, no other mod does it AFAIK
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Curse PremiumPros:
- It's fun
- It requires logical thinking
- It heavily promotes exploration
- Doodle God aspect combining
- It's easy, but not so far that it feels too easy
- Most of the items you research and create last practically forever (barring incidents like falling into lava), making the time spent researching and creating the items a good return on the investment.
Cons: