Just a thought here: As long as the research is divided up into schools anyway (alchemy, thaumaturgy, golemancy), how difficult would it be to provide a way to restrict research to a particular school or schools? "Today I want to research only artifice and the basics. I'm not ready to get into thaumaturgy, alchemy or golemancy yet."
Is there a item storage where the item in them repair themselve when there is repair on them? (Item storage where the item sill ticks without being in the players inventory)
I ask again: Does anyone know the aspects for Forge rubber?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You want a farm, you grab a hoe. You want a boat, you grab some wood. You want a fireplace, you grab A FLAMING HELL-BOULDER BECAUSE THAT'S HOW MINECRAFTERS ROLL!!!
I've been avoiding doing this, but with all this research related talk I thought I'd share some of what I'm planning - NOTE: This is just plans ATM, I still need to work out the details and see how viable it all is.
Making stuff easier
(1) Research won't be a random anymore. You will select the research you wish to pursue in the thaumonomicon and get research notes which you will take to the table.
(2) "Secondary researches" won't require the minigame - when you select them in the thaumonomicon you will just pay a certain amount of RP to unlock it.
For example - you go into the thaumonomicon and see that you can now research Transmutation in the Alchemy category. You select it, get the research notes and fiddle around in the table as you usually would. You unlock it allowing you to transmute metals into iron. You now go take a look in your thaumonomicon and see all the various other transmutation researches are now available for selection, however these are secondary researches - since they use the same basic principles as iron transmutation you don't need to reinvent the wheel. When you select them you simply unlock them if you have enough RP to do so.
(3) Some research will only be unlocked by scanning or doing certain things. For example, the Ethereal bloom won't be researchable till you have scanned something tainted. This is sort of intended to replace the current lost research, which is a bit lame in my opinion.
Making stuff harder
(1) Since you will be doing the minigame a lot less it will become a bit harder. I have a new version if it in mind that will up the difficulty curve a bit, while at the same time making unsolvable research impossible.
(2) Scanning stuff will only return primal aspects, meaning you will have to spend more time combining them in the research table. The first time you scan something with a new compound aspect you will still get a small amount of that type of RP, but otherwise you will just get the primals that its aspects eventually break down to.
I'm going to post one last thing sense people here don't seem to grasp some things.
I played a normal game of minecraft, I spent a few RL days carrying the scanner around and casually scanning things as I played. Yes I reached the end. I WAITED AND TOOK MY TIME SCANNING ALL I CAME ACROSS. I DID NOT FREAKING RUSH IT.
So apparently my CHOICE to go though and scan everything, even waiting until I progressed to the end is seen as 'sucking really bad'. Gee thanks.
I also stated before, I went into this mod with NO cheat sheet, no nada. I expermented and tried to learn the scribbing game on my own. Yes that wasted a lot, but many new people who don't look up stuff may end up in this same mess and right now I can't fin d away to recover aside forgo everything I just spent in the world to 'start over'. No, there should be a true way to recover from this.
The last Thumcraft I figured out with out any cheat guide or nothing and I finished EVERY bit of research and even purposely kept a rather huge dark node dark incased and filled to farm whisps for their shards. I had a full lab with warded jars of every type several golems for my farms and across far enough away I had a pure node that was steadily growing in size from the crystal clusters I had in it's chamber and the silverwood trees I'd be growing near by to merge nodes.
I enjoy the discovery of finding things out on my own. But as it is right now it feels that this version you have to use a freaking cheat sheet to make it by. Half my game play was stuck on being unable to scan grass or animals. How was I suppose to know that you had to mix a certain two aspecs together then scan a certain item to start being able to get grass and trees and animals and pretty much everything else. Sorry my random discovery/scanned nodes or random mix's didn't have me come across mixing those two together. So much of my world had me scaning nodes and blocks that I didn't have the know how to scan.
Then I passed the road block by asking how you freaking scan something like GRASS when I could scan dirt right off. Then I got opened up to everything, went back to all the nodes I had marked that I couldn't scan before and took off. I had to remake my scanner three times due to losing it on death during my mining/exploring/slipping into a hidden revine in the middle of a jungle with lava right below. >.>
Bad? Maybe. Wasteful? Maybe, Wanting to do the whole mod legit and not go into cheat sheets and recipe lists? A bit impossible.
Some people apparently are able to pick up on this new version right off, and I'm not fond of such people turning around and telling someone who is having a hard time that they are just BAD or a TROLL or don't know how to SCAN or to get something they cant yet.
This is not what I exspected when I came here.
Yes I am ed, frustrated and down right annoyed, and not once have I gotten someone that might think for a moment 'HEY THIS PERSONS NOT BAD, THERE JUST HAVING A HARDER TIME THEN I DID FIGURING PARTS OUT -WANTED TO NOT USE CHEAT SHEETS OR GUIDES AND WANTING TO FIGURE IT OUT ON THEIR OWN BUT IS GETTING STUCK AT PARKS."
But apparently such isn't possible.
I'm done, I'm dropping the mod and not bothering with it anymore until maybe the research gets tweaked. What was once a very fun mod has turned into a nightmare and people here cant wrap their heads that SOME PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME.
How was I suppose to know that you had to mix a certain two aspecs together then scan a certain item to start being able to get grass and trees and animals and pretty much everything else.
...
Bad? Maybe. Wasteful? Maybe, Wanting to do the whole mod legit and not go into cheat sheets and recipe lists? A bit impossible.
For the first, the Thauminomicon outright tells you how you make Victus. If it's a bottleneck, it's there to stop people who don't read.
And the point people have been making is it's far from impossible. Everyone here has gone through the mod just fine, the reason things are getting a touch hostile is because you're implying the mod is at fault when you can't progress. Stuff like research might not be perfect, as Azanor himself admits, but calling it impossible and getting angry at it because you can't figure out research is a bit much.
I've been avoiding doing this, but with all this research related talk I thought I'd share some of what I'm planning - NOTE: This is just plans ATM, I still need to work out the details and see how viable it all is.
Making stuff easier
(1) Research won't be a random anymore. You will select the research you wish to pursue in the thaumonomicon and get research notes which you will take to the table.
(2) "Secondary researches" won't require the minigame - when you select them in the thaumonomicon you will just pay a certain amount of RP to unlock it.
For example - you go into the thaumonomicon and see that you can now research Transmutation in the Alchemy category. You select it, get the research notes and fiddle around in the table as you usually would. You unlock it allowing you to transmute metals into iron. You now go take a look in your thaumonomicon and see all the various other transmutation researches are now available for selection, however these are secondary researches - since they use the same basic principles as iron transmutation you don't need to reinvent the wheel. When you select them you simply unlock them if you have enough RP to do so.
(3) Some research will only be unlocked by scanning or doing certain things. For example, the Ethereal bloom won't be researchable till you have scanned something tainted. This is sort of intended to replace the current lost research, which is a bit lame in my opinion.
Making stuff harder
(1) Since you will be doing the minigame a lot less it will become a bit harder. I have a new version if it in mind that will up the difficulty curve a bit, while at the same time making unsolvable research impossible.
(2) Scanning stuff will only return primal aspects, meaning you will have to spend more time combining them in the research table. The first time you scan something with a new compound aspect you will still get a small amount of that type of RP, but otherwise you will just get the primals that its aspects eventually break down to.
Ohhh me loves. Sorry the little symbols give me a headache. Otherwise its really neat. I just have horrible eyes . I like combining aspects and such its only the research mini game the hurts and only cause my eyes start crossing and it hurts. I love Thaumcraft.
So um you like never use NEI to find recipes for say IC2 or Railcraft? Cause technically by your definition that's a cheat sheet.... you should be just guessing the recipes.
I don't really get the rant. There's a nice way to ask for mod changes and a not so nice way that will tend to get you ignored. Yelling at mod devs and ranting on their threads is not the nice way.
Saying this is too hard is not really constructive criticism. Saying "Um the symbols are a bit difficult for color blind people" is constructive. "Its too hard" is just grumping.
Azanor puts a lot of time and effort into the mod, if its not to your taste thats fine. Thats no reason to get all "grr rawr hiss boooooo".
I hope you find something that fits your playstyle better
Yes I am ed, frustrated and down right annoyed, and not once have I gotten someone that might think for a moment 'HEY THIS PERSONS NOT BAD, THERE JUST HAVING A HARDER TIME THEN I DID FIGURING PARTS OUT -WANTED TO NOT USE CHEAT SHEETS OR GUIDES AND WANTING TO FIGURE IT OUT ON THEIR OWN BUT IS GETTING STUCK AT PARKS."
But apparently such isn't possible.
I'm done, I'm dropping the mod and not bothering with it anymore until maybe the research gets tweaked. What was once a very fun mod has turned into a nightmare and people here cant wrap their heads that SOME PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME.
I never used a cheat sheet. Don't know how to get them.
I read the Thaumonomicon. A point Taiine never responded to when people pointed it out to him/her.
When I got too frustrated, I came to the forum. When I got here, I didn't _just_ complain that the mod didn't work the way I thought it should, I actually paid attention to what people were writing and tried to figure out how it actually worked.
I hope you find a mod that meets your criteria, but I also sincerely hope this one never does. Again.
I've been avoiding doing this, but with all this research related talk I thought I'd share some of what I'm planning - NOTE: This is just plans ATM, I still need to work out the details and see how viable it all is.
Making stuff easier
(1) Research won't be a random anymore. You will select the research you wish to pursue in the thaumonomicon and get research notes which you will take to the table.
Making research something you just pick and, in some cases, just outright buy, will pretty much mean I won't be updating past 4.0.5b. I very much enjoy the random nature of research, as I find it fitting and logical, and far more fun. To me, research should be random.
Perhaps if it can be made a configurable option, so those of us who don't feel the need to have things handed to us can opt out of that and keep the mod in its current enjoyable form. I'll admit research could use some work, though I personally don't find much - if any - faults with it. I just strongly disagree that reducing the process to a "pick and choose" method isn't the best course of action.
(2) "Secondary researches" won't require the minigame - when you select them in the thaumonomicon you will just pay a certain amount of RP to unlock it.
For example - you go into the thaumonomicon and see that you can now research Transmutation in the Alchemy category. You select it, get the research notes and fiddle around in the table as you usually would. You unlock it allowing you to transmute metals into iron. You now go take a look in your thaumonomicon and see all the various other transmutation researches are now available for selection, however these are secondary researches - since they use the same basic principles as iron transmutation you don't need to reinvent the wheel. When you select them you simply unlock them if you have enough RP to do so.
I don't really care for this idea, either, though I can see the point being made. I'd rather just have all transmutes unlocked simultaneously rather than be given a menu of things to order from, personally speaking.
(3) Some research will only be unlocked by scanning or doing certain things. For example, the Ethereal bloom won't be researchable till you have scanned something tainted. This is sort of intended to replace the current lost research, which is a bit lame in my opinion.
This I don't have a problem with. Unlocking research through scanning other things is a good idea, and one I can definitely get behind.
Making stuff harder
(1) Since you will be doing the minigame a lot less it will become a bit harder. I have a new version if it in mind that will up the difficulty curve a bit, while at the same time making unsolvable research impossible.
I'll admit, I'll be a bit sad to see impossible researches taken out of the equation, but overall I would have to agree that it's for the best. A harder minigame is absolutely fine with me, as the current minigame is extremely easy (not that I'd have considered that a bad thing, necessarily).
(2) Scanning stuff will only return primal aspects, meaning you will have to spend more time combining them in the research table. The first time you scan something with a new compound aspect you will still get a small amount of that type of RP, but otherwise you will just get the primals that its aspects eventually break down to.
As a player who loves the Doodle God approach to aspects and research points, I'm all for this. In every world I play, I spend a large amount of time just combining aspects at the table, often before I even make a Thaumometer or venture out into the world (other than for basic materials, of course).
Again, though, the change to how research is selected will ruin a large portion of the mod for me, and will likely end up with me not updating past the current version. If this could somehow be made a configurable option, that would be great, though I don't have much hope for that.
(2) "Secondary researches" won't require the minigame - when you select them in the thaumonomicon you will just pay a certain amount of RP to unlock it. For example - you go into the thaumonomicon and see that you can now research Transmutation in the Alchemy category. You select it, get the research notes and fiddle around in the table as you usually would. You unlock it allowing you to transmute metals into iron. You now go take a look in your thaumonomicon and see all the various other transmutation researches are now available for selection, however these are secondary researches - since they use the same basic principles as iron transmutation you don't need to reinvent the wheel. When you select them you simply unlock them if you have enough RP to do so.
I don't really care for this idea, either, though I can see the point being made. I'd rather just have all transmutes unlocked simultaneously rather than be given a menu of things to order from, personally speaking.
Perhaps there's a middle ground here? Perhaps, using transmutation as an example, when you unlock transmutation you can now see at least several of the other available transmutations, but you don't just buy them with research points, you get research notes which already have all the aspects in common with what you've already done unlocked. All you have to do is add in the missing details. By the time you've unlocked three transmutations, you've learned enough about transmutation that now you can see ALL of the available transmutations, and you get research notes for the remaining ones with all aspects active, you just have to align the runes.
Similarly in the middle-ground philosophy, might there be any way to say "I want to study how to research more effectively", or "I must find better ways to use Essentia efficiently and generate less flux", without going all the way to picking research items directly off a list? Part of this would of course be solved if the list only shows directly available research, as the Thaumonomicon does now, leaving you to find prerequisites before you can proceed. An à la carte menu would be uninteresting, but it would be great to be able to say, "Oh, a wand recharging station! Hmmm. How could I improve on this?" Or, "I wonder what possible ways there are that I could make better golems."
Yes, you will usually only be able to see one step ahead in the research so first time thaumaturges still need to experiment a bit to see what branch leads where.
Also there won't be that many secondary researches - there are obvious ones like the golem upgrades and transmutations, but in general you will still need to do the minigames for half (probably more) of the research.
One of the reasons I'm changing research is simply because I'm finding it tedious in it's current incarnation. I make changes according to what I find entertaining or interesting - I do listen to suggestions on the forums, but the main reason I am making this change is because *I* find spending hours at the table boring.
Just a thought here: As long as the research is divided up into schools anyway (alchemy, thaumaturgy, golemancy), how difficult would it be to provide a way to restrict research to a particular school or schools? "Today I want to research only artifice and the basics. I'm not ready to get into thaumaturgy, alchemy or golemancy yet."
I've been avoiding doing this, but with all this research related talk I thought I'd share some of what I'm planning - NOTE: This is just plans ATM, I still need to work out the details and see how viable it all is.
Making stuff easier
(1) Research won't be a random anymore. You will select the research you wish to pursue in the thaumonomicon and get research notes which you will take to the table.
(2) "Secondary researches" won't require the minigame - when you select them in the thaumonomicon you will just pay a certain amount of RP to unlock it.
For example - you go into the thaumonomicon and see that you can now research Transmutation in the Alchemy category. You select it, get the research notes and fiddle around in the table as you usually would. You unlock it allowing you to transmute metals into iron. You now go take a look in your thaumonomicon and see all the various other transmutation researches are now available for selection, however these are secondary researches - since they use the same basic principles as iron transmutation you don't need to reinvent the wheel. When you select them you simply unlock them if you have enough RP to do so.
(3) Some research will only be unlocked by scanning or doing certain things. For example, the Ethereal bloom won't be researchable till you have scanned something tainted. This is sort of intended to replace the current lost research, which is a bit lame in my opinion.
Making stuff harder
(1) Since you will be doing the minigame a lot less it will become a bit harder. I have a new version if it in mind that will up the difficulty curve a bit, while at the same time making unsolvable research impossible.
(2) Scanning stuff will only return primal aspects, meaning you will have to spend more time combining them in the research table. The first time you scan something with a new compound aspect you will still get a small amount of that type of RP, but otherwise you will just get the primals that its aspects eventually break down to.
Will there be any significant changes to the interface for combining aspects? Like separating the primals so you don't have to go looking though the entire list for them, displaying compound aspects that you know but are out of, and being able to auto-combine known compound aspects.
java.lang.ClassCastException: draco18s.linkrenderer.entity.EntityRenderNode cannot be cast to net.minecraft.entity.player.EntityPlayer
at thaumcraft.client.lib.UtilsFX.drawFloatyLine(UtilsFX.java:1078)
at thaumcraft.client.renderers.tile.TileWandPedestalRenderer.renderTileEntityAt(TileWandPedestalRenderer.java:52)
at thaumcraft.client.renderers.tile.TileWandPedestalRenderer.func_76894_a(TileWandPedestalRenderer.java:64)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.tileentity.TileEntityRenderer.func_76949_a(SourceFile:106)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.tileentity.TileEntityRenderer.func_76950_a(SourceFile:98)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.RenderGlobal.func_72713_a(RenderGlobal.java:536)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.EntityRenderer.func_78471_a(EntityRenderer.java:1160)
at draco18s.linkrenderer.TickHandler.renderWorldToTexture(TickHandler.java:238)
at draco18s.linkrenderer.TickHandler.tickStart(TickHandler.java:104)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.SingleIntervalHandler.tickStart(SingleIntervalHandler.java:28)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.FMLCommonHandler.tickStart(FMLCommonHandler.java:122)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.FMLCommonHandler.onRenderTickStart(FMLCommonHandler.java:372)
at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.func_71411_J(Minecraft.java:944)
at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.func_99999_d(Minecraft.java:838)
at net.minecraft.client.main.Main.main(SourceFile:101)
at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Unknown Source)
at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.Launch.launch(Launch.java:131)
at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.Launch.main(Launch.java:27)
A detailed walkthrough of the error, its code path and all known details is as follows:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Head --
Stacktrace:
at thaumcraft.client.lib.UtilsFX.drawFloatyLine(UtilsFX.java:1078)
at thaumcraft.client.renderers.tile.TileWandPedestalRenderer.renderTileEntityAt(TileWandPedestalRenderer.java:52)
at thaumcraft.client.renderers.tile.TileWandPedestalRenderer.func_76894_a(TileWandPedestalRenderer.java:64)
-- Tile Entity Details --
Details:
Name: TileWandPedestal // thaumcraft.common.tiles.TileWandPedestal
Block type: ID #2423 (tile.blockStoneDevice // thaumcraft.common.blocks.BlockStoneDevice)
Block data value: 5 / 0x5 / 0b0101
Block location: World: (461,56,-507), Chunk: (at 13,3,5 in 28,-32; contains blocks 448,0,-512 to 463,255,-497), Region: (0,-1; contains chunks 0,-32 to 31,-1, blocks 0,0,-512 to 511,255,-1)
Actual block type: ID #2423 (tile.blockStoneDevice // thaumcraft.common.blocks.BlockStoneDevice)
Actual block data value: 5 / 0x5 / 0b0101
Stacktrace:
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.tileentity.TileEntityRenderer.func_76949_a(SourceFile:106)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.tileentity.TileEntityRenderer.func_76950_a(SourceFile:98)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.RenderGlobal.func_72713_a(RenderGlobal.java:536)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.EntityRenderer.func_78471_a(EntityRenderer.java:1160)
at draco18s.linkrenderer.TickHandler.renderWorldToTexture(TickHandler.java:238)
at draco18s.linkrenderer.TickHandler.tickStart(TickHandler.java:104)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.SingleIntervalHandler.tickStart(SingleIntervalHandler.java:28)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.FMLCommonHandler.tickStart(FMLCommonHandler.java:122)
My entity, draco18s.linkrenderer.entity.EntityRenderNode, extends EntityLiving but is not an EntityPlayer. Looks like you're checking for EntityLiving but not checking to see if it's an EntityPlayer before casting.
I might be able to fix this on my end (by extending EntityLivingBase instead), but I can't check right now if that would be possible.
Either way it's probably a good idea to check instanceof before casting.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Apparently I'm a complete and utter jerk and come to this forum just like to make fun of people, be confrontational, and make your personal life miserable. If you think this is the case, JUST REPORT ME. Otherwise you're just going to get reported when you reply to my posts and point it out, because odds are, I was trying to be nice.
First: the "OMG VICTUS IMPOSSIBLE ROADBLOCK!" issue. READ THE THAUMONOMICON FOR EVERYONE AND YOUR SAKE.
It's written as clearly as day. "Do a+b for an important aspect". And the followup it's pretty much OBVIOUS if you take some time considering that one is life, and where there's life there's also death.
That only appears in the Thaumonomicon AFTER you've discovered it. There's no clue beforehand, when people need it.
The Mortuis followup is pretty obvious *but* people are advised to scan for aspects and, again, there's no clue you need to combine for *that* one.
If a Doodle God approach is desired, then at the least there should not be a reward for avoiding it, and preferably it should be the only way to discover aspects (although "you can't scan that" would give useful clues in that case). Also, in that case, research really needs to be staged so that you can get some magical stuff done without having to complete almost the entire Doodle God game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Yes, you will usually only be able to see one step ahead in the research so first time thaumaturges still need to experiment a bit to see what branch leads where.
Also there won't be that many secondary researches - there are obvious ones like the golem upgrades and transmutations, but in general you will still need to do the minigames for half (probably more) of the research.
One of the reasons I'm changing research is simply because I'm finding it tedious in it's current incarnation. I make changes according to what I find entertaining or interesting - I do listen to suggestions on the forums, but the main reason I am making this change is because *I* find spending hours at the table boring.
Well, why don't we do some kind of shopping list for some researches?
Think about it, requiring you to get some items in certain quantitties and using them to complete research (a bit like the catalyst for crucible recipes).
This could be used as a way to make more advanced research take a bit more time and consideration than usual, and would force you to go out there and look for something.
Pretty much like prototyping something, you need to spend some materials in order to complete the research first. Maybe you can even use some of those items to unlock secondary researches by getting some optional materials mixed in with the main stuff (these optional ingredients could be hinted on the research entry or on the thaumonomicon itself, think maybe of examining the research notes ).
I was thinking of a way to connect the deconstruction table with the research table and using it to aid research in a more direct fashion.
(it's not a resource sink because there will be fixed ammounts of items, and it will not be too easy since it will be possible to require items you can't normally obtain at the start of the game.)
I just gotta take your side when you say the amount of time spent in the research table is making this boring, i mean, for the amount of secondary research there is we should have a not so repetitive way to explore it all.
As for being able to choose the research you take i find it a bit unbalanced... (you could get very powerfull stuff without much effort), however i do think secondary research branches should not gobble up all my research time not letting me progress, if anything we should be able to get different research notes by sheer luck (between two or more that use the same aspect) when using the research table.
I support the decision of getting primal aspects instead of compund ones with research points, it will NOT make things into a Research table spamming mechanic, it doesn't take that much time to make it so. It just gives it a bit more interaction.
Harder research makes sense, anxious to see what you come up with.
Keep up the awesome work!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This is not a signature, it's a post office, that currently has 56 letters...
That only appears in the Thaumonomicon AFTER you've discovered it. There's no clue beforehand, when people need it.
Nope, that one is in the thauminomicon beforehand. Not on the page with recipes for aspects, but on the page describing aspects themselves (I think. Been a while since I had to read the early entries.) It's described in text, rather than pictures. People have no-one to blame but themselves if they miss it.
This would be amazing.
Better Storage's Thaumaturge's Backpack works.
That repairs all tools, not just ones that have repair on them.
Profile pic by Cheshirette c:
Dunno, you'd have to ask copygirl.
Profile pic by Cheshirette c:
Making stuff easier
(1) Research won't be a random anymore. You will select the research you wish to pursue in the thaumonomicon and get research notes which you will take to the table.
(2) "Secondary researches" won't require the minigame - when you select them in the thaumonomicon you will just pay a certain amount of RP to unlock it.
For example - you go into the thaumonomicon and see that you can now research Transmutation in the Alchemy category. You select it, get the research notes and fiddle around in the table as you usually would. You unlock it allowing you to transmute metals into iron. You now go take a look in your thaumonomicon and see all the various other transmutation researches are now available for selection, however these are secondary researches - since they use the same basic principles as iron transmutation you don't need to reinvent the wheel. When you select them you simply unlock them if you have enough RP to do so.
(3) Some research will only be unlocked by scanning or doing certain things. For example, the Ethereal bloom won't be researchable till you have scanned something tainted. This is sort of intended to replace the current lost research, which is a bit lame in my opinion.
Making stuff harder
(1) Since you will be doing the minigame a lot less it will become a bit harder. I have a new version if it in mind that will up the difficulty curve a bit, while at the same time making unsolvable research impossible.
(2) Scanning stuff will only return primal aspects, meaning you will have to spend more time combining them in the research table. The first time you scan something with a new compound aspect you will still get a small amount of that type of RP, but otherwise you will just get the primals that its aspects eventually break down to.
I played a normal game of minecraft, I spent a few RL days carrying the scanner around and casually scanning things as I played. Yes I reached the end. I WAITED AND TOOK MY TIME SCANNING ALL I CAME ACROSS. I DID NOT FREAKING RUSH IT.
So apparently my CHOICE to go though and scan everything, even waiting until I progressed to the end is seen as 'sucking really bad'. Gee thanks.
I also stated before, I went into this mod with NO cheat sheet, no nada. I expermented and tried to learn the scribbing game on my own. Yes that wasted a lot, but many new people who don't look up stuff may end up in this same mess and right now I can't fin d away to recover aside forgo everything I just spent in the world to 'start over'. No, there should be a true way to recover from this.
The last Thumcraft I figured out with out any cheat guide or nothing and I finished EVERY bit of research and even purposely kept a rather huge dark node dark incased and filled to farm whisps for their shards. I had a full lab with warded jars of every type several golems for my farms and across far enough away I had a pure node that was steadily growing in size from the crystal clusters I had in it's chamber and the silverwood trees I'd be growing near by to merge nodes.
I enjoy the discovery of finding things out on my own. But as it is right now it feels that this version you have to use a freaking cheat sheet to make it by. Half my game play was stuck on being unable to scan grass or animals. How was I suppose to know that you had to mix a certain two aspecs together then scan a certain item to start being able to get grass and trees and animals and pretty much everything else. Sorry my random discovery/scanned nodes or random mix's didn't have me come across mixing those two together. So much of my world had me scaning nodes and blocks that I didn't have the know how to scan.
Then I passed the road block by asking how you freaking scan something like GRASS when I could scan dirt right off. Then I got opened up to everything, went back to all the nodes I had marked that I couldn't scan before and took off. I had to remake my scanner three times due to losing it on death during my mining/exploring/slipping into a hidden revine in the middle of a jungle with lava right below. >.>
Bad? Maybe. Wasteful? Maybe, Wanting to do the whole mod legit and not go into cheat sheets and recipe lists? A bit impossible.
Some people apparently are able to pick up on this new version right off, and I'm not fond of such people turning around and telling someone who is having a hard time that they are just BAD or a TROLL or don't know how to SCAN or to get something they cant yet.
This is not what I exspected when I came here.
Yes I am ed, frustrated and down right annoyed, and not once have I gotten someone that might think for a moment 'HEY THIS PERSONS NOT BAD, THERE JUST HAVING A HARDER TIME THEN I DID FIGURING PARTS OUT -WANTED TO NOT USE CHEAT SHEETS OR GUIDES AND WANTING TO FIGURE IT OUT ON THEIR OWN BUT IS GETTING STUCK AT PARKS."
But apparently such isn't possible.
I'm done, I'm dropping the mod and not bothering with it anymore until maybe the research gets tweaked. What was once a very fun mod has turned into a nightmare and people here cant wrap their heads that SOME PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME.
For the first, the Thauminomicon outright tells you how you make Victus. If it's a bottleneck, it's there to stop people who don't read.
And the point people have been making is it's far from impossible. Everyone here has gone through the mod just fine, the reason things are getting a touch hostile is because you're implying the mod is at fault when you can't progress. Stuff like research might not be perfect, as Azanor himself admits, but calling it impossible and getting angry at it because you can't figure out research is a bit much.
Ohhh me loves. Sorry the little symbols give me a headache. Otherwise its really neat. I just have horrible eyes . I like combining aspects and such its only the research mini game the hurts and only cause my eyes start crossing and it hurts. I love Thaumcraft.
So um you like never use NEI to find recipes for say IC2 or Railcraft? Cause technically by your definition that's a cheat sheet.... you should be just guessing the recipes.
I don't really get the rant. There's a nice way to ask for mod changes and a not so nice way that will tend to get you ignored. Yelling at mod devs and ranting on their threads is not the nice way.
Saying this is too hard is not really constructive criticism. Saying "Um the symbols are a bit difficult for color blind people" is constructive. "Its too hard" is just grumping.
Azanor puts a lot of time and effort into the mod, if its not to your taste thats fine. Thats no reason to get all "grr rawr hiss boooooo".
I hope you find something that fits your playstyle better
I never used a cheat sheet. Don't know how to get them.
I read the Thaumonomicon. A point Taiine never responded to when people pointed it out to him/her.
When I got too frustrated, I came to the forum. When I got here, I didn't _just_ complain that the mod didn't work the way I thought it should, I actually paid attention to what people were writing and tried to figure out how it actually worked.
I hope you find a mod that meets your criteria, but I also sincerely hope this one never does. Again.
Making research something you just pick and, in some cases, just outright buy, will pretty much mean I won't be updating past 4.0.5b. I very much enjoy the random nature of research, as I find it fitting and logical, and far more fun. To me, research should be random.
Perhaps if it can be made a configurable option, so those of us who don't feel the need to have things handed to us can opt out of that and keep the mod in its current enjoyable form. I'll admit research could use some work, though I personally don't find much - if any - faults with it. I just strongly disagree that reducing the process to a "pick and choose" method isn't the best course of action.
I don't really care for this idea, either, though I can see the point being made. I'd rather just have all transmutes unlocked simultaneously rather than be given a menu of things to order from, personally speaking.
This I don't have a problem with. Unlocking research through scanning other things is a good idea, and one I can definitely get behind.
I'll admit, I'll be a bit sad to see impossible researches taken out of the equation, but overall I would have to agree that it's for the best. A harder minigame is absolutely fine with me, as the current minigame is extremely easy (not that I'd have considered that a bad thing, necessarily).
As a player who loves the Doodle God approach to aspects and research points, I'm all for this. In every world I play, I spend a large amount of time just combining aspects at the table, often before I even make a Thaumometer or venture out into the world (other than for basic materials, of course).
Again, though, the change to how research is selected will ruin a large portion of the mod for me, and will likely end up with me not updating past the current version. If this could somehow be made a configurable option, that would be great, though I don't have much hope for that.
Just my $0.02 on the matter.
Perhaps there's a middle ground here? Perhaps, using transmutation as an example, when you unlock transmutation you can now see at least several of the other available transmutations, but you don't just buy them with research points, you get research notes which already have all the aspects in common with what you've already done unlocked. All you have to do is add in the missing details. By the time you've unlocked three transmutations, you've learned enough about transmutation that now you can see ALL of the available transmutations, and you get research notes for the remaining ones with all aspects active, you just have to align the runes.
Similarly in the middle-ground philosophy, might there be any way to say "I want to study how to research more effectively", or "I must find better ways to use Essentia efficiently and generate less flux", without going all the way to picking research items directly off a list? Part of this would of course be solved if the list only shows directly available research, as the Thaumonomicon does now, leaving you to find prerequisites before you can proceed. An à la carte menu would be uninteresting, but it would be great to be able to say, "Oh, a wand recharging station! Hmmm. How could I improve on this?" Or, "I wonder what possible ways there are that I could make better golems."
Yes, you will usually only be able to see one step ahead in the research so first time thaumaturges still need to experiment a bit to see what branch leads where.
Also there won't be that many secondary researches - there are obvious ones like the golem upgrades and transmutations, but in general you will still need to do the minigames for half (probably more) of the research.
One of the reasons I'm changing research is simply because I'm finding it tedious in it's current incarnation. I make changes according to what I find entertaining or interesting - I do listen to suggestions on the forums, but the main reason I am making this change is because *I* find spending hours at the table boring.
Agreed. Something like this would definitely be amazing to see in a future release. Would make it all the more real-ish.
Looks amazing.
Cant wait for 4.1!
// I bet Cylons wouldn't have this problem.
Time: 1/8/14 4:02 PM
Description: Rendering Tile Entity
java.lang.ClassCastException: draco18s.linkrenderer.entity.EntityRenderNode cannot be cast to net.minecraft.entity.player.EntityPlayer
at thaumcraft.client.lib.UtilsFX.drawFloatyLine(UtilsFX.java:1078)
at thaumcraft.client.renderers.tile.TileWandPedestalRenderer.renderTileEntityAt(TileWandPedestalRenderer.java:52)
at thaumcraft.client.renderers.tile.TileWandPedestalRenderer.func_76894_a(TileWandPedestalRenderer.java:64)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.tileentity.TileEntityRenderer.func_76949_a(SourceFile:106)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.tileentity.TileEntityRenderer.func_76950_a(SourceFile:98)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.RenderGlobal.func_72713_a(RenderGlobal.java:536)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.EntityRenderer.func_78471_a(EntityRenderer.java:1160)
at draco18s.linkrenderer.TickHandler.renderWorldToTexture(TickHandler.java:238)
at draco18s.linkrenderer.TickHandler.tickStart(TickHandler.java:104)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.SingleIntervalHandler.tickStart(SingleIntervalHandler.java:28)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.FMLCommonHandler.tickStart(FMLCommonHandler.java:122)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.FMLCommonHandler.onRenderTickStart(FMLCommonHandler.java:372)
at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.func_71411_J(Minecraft.java:944)
at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.func_99999_d(Minecraft.java:838)
at net.minecraft.client.main.Main.main(SourceFile:101)
at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Unknown Source)
at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.Launch.launch(Launch.java:131)
at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.Launch.main(Launch.java:27)
A detailed walkthrough of the error, its code path and all known details is as follows:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Head --
Stacktrace:
at thaumcraft.client.lib.UtilsFX.drawFloatyLine(UtilsFX.java:1078)
at thaumcraft.client.renderers.tile.TileWandPedestalRenderer.renderTileEntityAt(TileWandPedestalRenderer.java:52)
at thaumcraft.client.renderers.tile.TileWandPedestalRenderer.func_76894_a(TileWandPedestalRenderer.java:64)
-- Tile Entity Details --
Details:
Name: TileWandPedestal // thaumcraft.common.tiles.TileWandPedestal
Block type: ID #2423 (tile.blockStoneDevice // thaumcraft.common.blocks.BlockStoneDevice)
Block data value: 5 / 0x5 / 0b0101
Block location: World: (461,56,-507), Chunk: (at 13,3,5 in 28,-32; contains blocks 448,0,-512 to 463,255,-497), Region: (0,-1; contains chunks 0,-32 to 31,-1, blocks 0,0,-512 to 511,255,-1)
Actual block type: ID #2423 (tile.blockStoneDevice // thaumcraft.common.blocks.BlockStoneDevice)
Actual block data value: 5 / 0x5 / 0b0101
Stacktrace:
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.tileentity.TileEntityRenderer.func_76949_a(SourceFile:106)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.tileentity.TileEntityRenderer.func_76950_a(SourceFile:98)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.RenderGlobal.func_72713_a(RenderGlobal.java:536)
at net.minecraft.client.renderer.EntityRenderer.func_78471_a(EntityRenderer.java:1160)
at draco18s.linkrenderer.TickHandler.renderWorldToTexture(TickHandler.java:238)
at draco18s.linkrenderer.TickHandler.tickStart(TickHandler.java:104)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.SingleIntervalHandler.tickStart(SingleIntervalHandler.java:28)
at cpw.mods.fml.common.FMLCommonHandler.tickStart(FMLCommonHandler.java:122)
My entity, draco18s.linkrenderer.entity.EntityRenderNode, extends EntityLiving but is not an EntityPlayer. Looks like you're checking for EntityLiving but not checking to see if it's an EntityPlayer before casting.
I might be able to fix this on my end (by extending EntityLivingBase instead), but I can't check right now if that would be possible.
Either way it's probably a good idea to check instanceof before casting.
That only appears in the Thaumonomicon AFTER you've discovered it. There's no clue beforehand, when people need it.
The Mortuis followup is pretty obvious *but* people are advised to scan for aspects and, again, there's no clue you need to combine for *that* one.
If a Doodle God approach is desired, then at the least there should not be a reward for avoiding it, and preferably it should be the only way to discover aspects (although "you can't scan that" would give useful clues in that case). Also, in that case, research really needs to be staged so that you can get some magical stuff done without having to complete almost the entire Doodle God game.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Well, why don't we do some kind of shopping list for some researches?
Think about it, requiring you to get some items in certain quantitties and using them to complete research (a bit like the catalyst for crucible recipes).
This could be used as a way to make more advanced research take a bit more time and consideration than usual, and would force you to go out there and look for something.
Pretty much like prototyping something, you need to spend some materials in order to complete the research first. Maybe you can even use some of those items to unlock secondary researches by getting some optional materials mixed in with the main stuff (these optional ingredients could be hinted on the research entry or on the thaumonomicon itself, think maybe of examining the research notes ).
I was thinking of a way to connect the deconstruction table with the research table and using it to aid research in a more direct fashion.
(it's not a resource sink because there will be fixed ammounts of items, and it will not be too easy since it will be possible to require items you can't normally obtain at the start of the game.)
I just gotta take your side when you say the amount of time spent in the research table is making this boring, i mean, for the amount of secondary research there is we should have a not so repetitive way to explore it all.
As for being able to choose the research you take i find it a bit unbalanced... (you could get very powerfull stuff without much effort), however i do think secondary research branches should not gobble up all my research time not letting me progress, if anything we should be able to get different research notes by sheer luck (between two or more that use the same aspect) when using the research table.
I support the decision of getting primal aspects instead of compund ones with research points, it will NOT make things into a Research table spamming mechanic, it doesn't take that much time to make it so. It just gives it a bit more interaction.
Harder research makes sense, anxious to see what you come up with.
Keep up the awesome work!
This is not a signature, it's a post office, that currently has 56 letters...
Nope, that one is in the thauminomicon beforehand. Not on the page with recipes for aspects, but on the page describing aspects themselves (I think. Been a while since I had to read the early entries.) It's described in text, rather than pictures. People have no-one to blame but themselves if they miss it.