I'm really sorry to hear that Codewarrior, but I totally understand how you feel. Honestly, I don't really make enough from the Super Hostile series to justify it financially. If you add up all the Adfly income and my donations, and then factor in the total work hours I've put in to it, it comes out significantly below minimum wage. So I try to look at it as more of a fun hobby that happens to pay for my monthly internet bill than a real income source.
Of course, if it's not enjoyable for you to do, then it's not a hobby, it's work. And if it's work, and you're not making enough money off of it, then you shouldn't do it. :smile.gif:
Thank you for the monumental amount of work you've spent on the MCedit project thus far. I really appreciate it!
(Edit, Mini-Rant: Also, if I were you, I probably would have quit this in frustration a while ago... the amount of poorly written, rude, demanding, and stupid posts in this thread, asking the same questions over and over would have driven me insane!)
After giving it a lot of thought, I've decided I won't do the source code sale-slash-fundraiser after all. Holding my work hostage and demanding payment from users before it continues is a business model suited only to tyrants and despots, and I'd rather not be remembered that way.
I guess I have a lot to learn.
I really just wanted to be compensated for my time. I doubt the source code itself is worth that much. After reading through it again, I'm not sure it's worth $100, let alone 10g. There will be lots of "He wanted $10k for THAT!?!?" in the near future.
MCEdit's source code will be posted to http://github.com/codewarrior0/mcedit once I've finished cleaning my personal information and passwords out of it.
I'm not sure who I should pass the torch to, but I don't want to leave the "lead developer" position up for grabs so I'm just going to name a few names. TkTech wrote to me and offered on the behalf of #mcdevs to maintain it for me. I'd also be pleased to see Eggplant! or hetmankp continue the work, since both of them have their own projects based on my pymclevel that they would love to have integrated with MCEdit. So, I'll leave it up to the three of them to decide.
I love you all and I hope you all have a wonderful day. :smile.gif:
After giving it a lot of thought, I've decided I won't do the source code sale-slash-fundraiser after all. Holding my work hostage and demanding payment from users before it continues is a business model suited only to tyrants and despots, and I'd rather not be remembered that way.
I guess I have a lot to learn.
I really just wanted to be compensated for my time. I doubt the source code itself is worth that much. After reading through it again, I'm not sure it's worth $100, let alone 10g. There will be lots of "He wanted $10k for THAT!?!?" in the near future.
MCEdit's source code will be posted to http://github.com/codewarrior0/mcedit once I've finished cleaning my personal information and passwords out of it.
I'm not sure who I should pass the torch to, but I don't want to leave the "lead developer" position up for grabs so I'm just going to name a few names. TkTech wrote to me and offered on the behalf of #mcdevs to maintain it for me. I'd also be pleased to see Eggplant! or hetmankp continue the work, since both of them have their own projects based on my pymclevel that they would love to have integrated with MCEdit. So, I'll leave it up to the three of them to decide.
I love you all and I hope you all have a wonderful day. :smile.gif:
My hats off to you Sir. You leave behind a Legacy. You have been and continue to be a part of our shared history here.
Thank You.
And please leave an active Donation link in your thread, you never know.
I really just wanted to be compensated for my time. I doubt the source code itself is worth that much. After reading through it again, I'm not sure it's worth $100, let alone 10g. There will be lots of "He wanted $10k for THAT!?!?" in the near future.
MCEdit's source code will be posted to http://github.com/codewarrior0/mcedit once I've finished cleaning my personal information and passwords out of it.
You rock, sir - and keep that donations link up. You got some moolah coming from me. :smile.gif:
EDIT: And... this is just a thought, but if you charged for MCEdit instead of asking for donations, you might have your new job. I’d pay at least 20 bucks for it, and I regret I haven’t donated until now.
I know you’re not interested in the game, but I’m not really interested in my job either... I do it because it pays the bills. :smile.gif: With literally millions of players, and MCEdit as the only feasible world editor right now, I have to imagine you would make a fortune!
(Edit, Mini-Rant: Also, if I were you, I probably would have quit this in frustration a while ago... the amount of poorly written, rude, demanding, and stupid posts in this thread, asking the same questions over and over would have driven me insane!)
Basically with this, mods, and even Super Hostile, there are always people demanding something over and over like leeches that think they're doing some good but are actually really distracting. *sigh*
I'd pay 60 dollars for a 1 year license for it. Use an anti-virus business model, where you pay for updates.
(Although you could probably attract more customers in the 10 or 20 dollar range for a 1 year license. Or, you could sell varying durations of subscriptions at different prices, and the longer duration purchases are a better deal (Like MMO subscriptions.))
Edit:
60 dollars / year x 500 people = 30,000 a year. Wouldn't be too bad for a part time thing. I think 500 users is pretty conservative, I would expect you to easily sell more than that.
I'd pay 60 dollars for a 1 year license for it. Use an anti-virus business model, where you pay for updates.
(Although you could probably attract more customers in the 10 or 20 dollar range for a 1 year license. Or, you could sell varying durations of subscriptions at different prices, and the longer duration purchases are a better deal (Like MMO subscriptions.))
Edit:
60 dollars / year x 500 people = 30,000 a year. Wouldn't be too bad for a part time thing. I think 500 users is pretty conservative, I would expect you to easily sell more than that.
the thing to keep in mind is that if he starts selling it then people will have a real reason to complain when there are bugs (not that people don't complain now) but if he sells it then they have more of a right to complain than if it was just something they downloaded for free
I'd pay 60 dollars for a 1 year license for it. Use an anti-virus business model, where you pay for updates.
(Although you could probably attract more customers in the 10 or 20 dollar range for a 1 year license. Or, you could sell varying durations of subscriptions at different prices, and the longer duration purchases are a better deal (Like MMO subscriptions.))
Edit:
60 dollars / year x 500 people = 30,000 a year. Wouldn't be too bad for a part time thing. I think 500 users is pretty conservative, I would expect you to easily sell more than that.
Realistically I'd pay (read: afford) $20 for a one-year license. It's more than I paid for Minecraft originally, but I am totally on-board if you were to go this route. I will certainly be making a donation this year at any rate, as this has been a wonderful tool, I'd say invaluable for serious map designers.
I'd pay 60 dollars for a 1 year license for it. Use an anti-virus business model, where you pay for updates.
(Although you could probably attract more customers in the 10 or 20 dollar range for a 1 year license. Or, you could sell varying durations of subscriptions at different prices, and the longer duration purchases are a better deal (Like MMO subscriptions.))
Edit:
60 dollars / year x 500 people = 30,000 a year. Wouldn't be too bad for a part time thing. I think 500 users is pretty conservative, I would expect you to easily sell more than that.
I think this would kill MCEdit. I don't think people think MCEdit is worth paying for actually. It's an awesome tool, but not a tool you would pay for to use.
the thing to keep in mind is that if he starts selling it then people will have a real reason to complain when there are bugs (not that people don't complain now) but if he sells it then they have more of a right to complain than if it was just something they downloaded for free
And if he got a job working for someone else at a programming firm, his boss would probably be even more demanding. When you are offering your work, your product, or your service for payment, it doesn't matter where or how or for whom, you are accountable for it. The only thing, when you work for yourself, you are your own boss, and you can run things your way.
I'd pay for it. In my post that you quoted, I explicitly said I'd pay for it. I'm willing to bet there is more of a market than you think. A lot of server operators make money off their servers, and they use MCedit to make their servers more interesting and attractive to potential donators. And obviously I, and other fellow map makers do make some money off their maps, and we all use MCedit.
And if he got a job working for someone else at a programming firm, his boss would probably be even more demanding. When you are offering your work, your product, or your service for payment, it doesn't matter where or how or for whom, you are accountable for it. The only thing, when you work for yourself, you are your own boss, and you can run things your way.
Ummm...
I'd pay for it. In my post that you quoted, I explicitly said I'd pay for it. I'm willing to bet there is more of a market than you think. A lot of server operators make money off their servers, and they use MCedit to make their servers more interesting and attractive to potential donators. And obviously I, and other fellow map makers do make some money off their maps, and we all use MCedit.
...
Unless... I don't count as people?
:sad.gif:
Well, I didn't mean that no one will pay for it. But I don't think there will be much people who will. I for once, recently watch your tutorial video of MCEdit and I started playing and I thought it was kinda fun. WAs thinking that perhaps I should make a map just to test it out.
But if this becomes something you would pay for, i wouldn't do it. And I think that would kill it. Not enough people will use it if it becomes something you'd pay for.
I'm not that familiar with MCEdit. I really just know your maps which is made with MCEdit. And I know it's an awesome tool and I've seen your awesome maps. I could be wrong about all this, but that's what I think.
Kudos to codewarrior for releasing the code for free. Your work is invaluable, but under the circumstances, that was the professional thing to do. I'm donating right now.
As for project ownership, Github makes that largely immaterial, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Might I convince you to use LGPL instead of GPL? I'm all for open source but there are those that aren't or keep their code private until they get it into a workable state but GPL kind of messes with that. With GPL it can't be used, at all, even linked against, in anything with ANY other license. LGPL you can at least link it and use it in your own project.
Shame about you dropping the donations thing. I'll try and donate when I get some money, regardless.
Obviously you have full control over who takes over the project after you hand off the torch, but something I'd love to see is a development model with a group of lead devs with direct commit access, and then people who aren't authorized need to submit patches as pull requests per normal. This is how a lot of major projects like the Linux Kernel do it, and should allow quick updates of vital components like the map loader by lead devs and robust checking of less important patches via the pull request mechanism.
However you end up doing it, I'm keeping your repository in a tab, and will be working on it from day one if at all possible. MCEdit is an amazing tool.
Have you ben working on this lately? because this is very popular, yet its on beta 1.8 when we are on minecraft 1.1. Please work on this :biggrin.gif: I'm a huge fan of this software.
Thanks for the dedication you've put into this. I totally understand the sacrifice of putting many hours into a free project over a couple years, which I've done here and elsewhere. I've never asked for donations for any of my projects, but having recently entered the software industry professionally, I can point out that it's not a wasted effort. You'll get a more mileage in an interview talking about a large project you designed, developed, and continuously supported for a couple years than from a course project or semester of research. I'm convinced that played a large role in landing my current job. Good luck moving on.
I'm really sorry to hear that Codewarrior, but I totally understand how you feel. Honestly, I don't really make enough from the Super Hostile series to justify it financially. If you add up all the Adfly income and my donations, and then factor in the total work hours I've put in to it, it comes out significantly below minimum wage. So I try to look at it as more of a fun hobby that happens to pay for my monthly internet bill than a real income source.
Of course, if it's not enjoyable for you to do, then it's not a hobby, it's work. And if it's work, and you're not making enough money off of it, then you shouldn't do it. :smile.gif:
Thank you for the monumental amount of work you've spent on the MCedit project thus far. I really appreciate it!
(Edit, Mini-Rant: Also, if I were you, I probably would have quit this in frustration a while ago... the amount of poorly written, rude, demanding, and stupid posts in this thread, asking the same questions over and over would have driven me insane!)
I guess I have a lot to learn.
I really just wanted to be compensated for my time. I doubt the source code itself is worth that much. After reading through it again, I'm not sure it's worth $100, let alone 10g. There will be lots of "He wanted $10k for THAT!?!?" in the near future.
MCEdit's source code will be posted to http://github.com/codewarrior0/mcedit once I've finished cleaning my personal information and passwords out of it.
I'm not sure who I should pass the torch to, but I don't want to leave the "lead developer" position up for grabs so I'm just going to name a few names. TkTech wrote to me and offered on the behalf of #mcdevs to maintain it for me. I'd also be pleased to see Eggplant! or hetmankp continue the work, since both of them have their own projects based on my pymclevel that they would love to have integrated with MCEdit. So, I'll leave it up to the three of them to decide.
I love you all and I hope you all have a wonderful day. :smile.gif:
"We will absolutely not keep in mind what external mapeditors will have to do to read data from the disk, that makes no sense whatsoever." - Grum
My hats off to you Sir. You leave behind a Legacy. You have been and continue to be a part of our shared history here.
Thank You.
And please leave an active Donation link in your thread, you never know.
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
You rock, sir - and keep that donations link up. You got some moolah coming from me. :smile.gif:
EDIT: And... this is just a thought, but if you charged for MCEdit instead of asking for donations, you might have your new job. I’d pay at least 20 bucks for it, and I regret I haven’t donated until now.
I know you’re not interested in the game, but I’m not really interested in my job either... I do it because it pays the bills. :smile.gif: With literally millions of players, and MCEdit as the only feasible world editor right now, I have to imagine you would make a fortune!
Basically with this, mods, and even Super Hostile, there are always people demanding something over and over like leeches that think they're doing some good but are actually really distracting. *sigh*
I'd pay 60 dollars for it.I'd pay 60 dollars for a 1 year license for it. Use an anti-virus business model, where you pay for updates.
(Although you could probably attract more customers in the 10 or 20 dollar range for a 1 year license. Or, you could sell varying durations of subscriptions at different prices, and the longer duration purchases are a better deal (Like MMO subscriptions.))
Edit:
60 dollars / year x 500 people = 30,000 a year. Wouldn't be too bad for a part time thing. I think 500 users is pretty conservative, I would expect you to easily sell more than that.
the thing to keep in mind is that if he starts selling it then people will have a real reason to complain when there are bugs (not that people don't complain now) but if he sells it then they have more of a right to complain than if it was just something they downloaded for free
Realistically I'd pay (read: afford) $20 for a one-year license. It's more than I paid for Minecraft originally, but I am totally on-board if you were to go this route. I will certainly be making a donation this year at any rate, as this has been a wonderful tool, I'd say invaluable for serious map designers.
I think this would kill MCEdit. I don't think people think MCEdit is worth paying for actually. It's an awesome tool, but not a tool you would pay for to use.
And if he got a job working for someone else at a programming firm, his boss would probably be even more demanding. When you are offering your work, your product, or your service for payment, it doesn't matter where or how or for whom, you are accountable for it. The only thing, when you work for yourself, you are your own boss, and you can run things your way.
Ummm...
I'd pay for it. In my post that you quoted, I explicitly said I'd pay for it. I'm willing to bet there is more of a market than you think. A lot of server operators make money off their servers, and they use MCedit to make their servers more interesting and attractive to potential donators. And obviously I, and other fellow map makers do make some money off their maps, and we all use MCedit.
...
Unless... I don't count as people?
:sad.gif:
Well, I didn't mean that no one will pay for it. But I don't think there will be much people who will. I for once, recently watch your tutorial video of MCEdit and I started playing and I thought it was kinda fun. WAs thinking that perhaps I should make a map just to test it out.
But if this becomes something you would pay for, i wouldn't do it. And I think that would kill it. Not enough people will use it if it becomes something you'd pay for.
I'm not that familiar with MCEdit. I really just know your maps which is made with MCEdit. And I know it's an awesome tool and I've seen your awesome maps. I could be wrong about all this, but that's what I think.
As for project ownership, Github makes that largely immaterial, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
When I say "building", of course I mean downloading and copy-pasting things others have built.
"We will absolutely not keep in mind what external mapeditors will have to do to read data from the disk, that makes no sense whatsoever." - Grum
Obviously you have full control over who takes over the project after you hand off the torch, but something I'd love to see is a development model with a group of lead devs with direct commit access, and then people who aren't authorized need to submit patches as pull requests per normal. This is how a lot of major projects like the Linux Kernel do it, and should allow quick updates of vital components like the map loader by lead devs and robust checking of less important patches via the pull request mechanism.
However you end up doing it, I'm keeping your repository in a tab, and will be working on it from day one if at all possible. MCEdit is an amazing tool.
Pretty sure some of your map players do not regard you as human at least :wink.gif:
Where was I? Oh yeah MCEdit. Hope you'll consider leaving that Donations button up for now.
Thanks for the dedication you've put into this. I totally understand the sacrifice of putting many hours into a free project over a couple years, which I've done here and elsewhere. I've never asked for donations for any of my projects, but having recently entered the software industry professionally, I can point out that it's not a wasted effort. You'll get a more mileage in an interview talking about a large project you designed, developed, and continuously supported for a couple years than from a course project or semester of research. I'm convinced that played a large role in landing my current job. Good luck moving on.
Mods I Develop: Garden Stuff -- Storage Drawers -- Hunger Strike
Tools I Develop: NBTExplorer -- Substrate