No, on the left is a watermelon :/
I mean if you use the pack with CTM enabled, there is random CTM that makes some of the cacti tops have flowers instead of spikes.
And yes, that is a cake, what's wrong with it? It's mostly icing, sooo :/
Also, this now has a random top as well, and has 3 (including the one you see) random faces it can have.
Did you actually download the pack, or are you using the Test track image for feedback, because I had to posterize that a bit to lower the amount of colors so imgur wouldn't jpegify it. Not the best reference on pixel-level feedback.
It has the change Filmjolk wanted, plus the vines I changed because of Goodlyay's feedback, but more importantly has a new animated bedrock texture.
I personally like it, but I'm not sure. People don't really BUILD with bedrock besides spawn jails, do they?
Might (or might-not) be eye-hurty, but didn't give me a headache or anything despite no sleep.
Basically, bedrock is some sort of force field, and that's why it's nearly indestructible. The idea started off as electrons and that they were protecting (somehow) some sort of space, with stars and stuff in it, but that'd probably be too hard to pull off under the animation, plus animating that and tiling, ugh. It would be under-appreciated and overthought by some as relating to the villagers, which in mentality, it wouldn't be.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Ok, I downloaded the pack! The grass is still standing out to me as being slightly unshaded, some shadows up at the top to have a more rounded feeling would be great. The cactus sides could still use some interpolation, and the ctm version looks good. The cake I now see has different faces, I like that! But if you added a bit more texture to the sides I think it would look better.
I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but I updated the pack on PMC to include changes to the stone slabs that you saw, but I actually made it have a bit more brightness/contrast.
I also changes the weighting of random mossy stone bricks, so the least mossy version is the most common, so hopefully that helps mossy stone bricks blend in a bit more with stone bricks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Hey Lemon! I thought the pack was discontinued and I was sad when that happened but the lo, just the other day I came across your page and saw you had re-released it. I've only seen it briefly but I noticed tons of new textures! Crazy. It looks really really good and I'm so glad that it's out again... I'll give you some real feedback when I've used more in-depth.
Cheers
Hey Lemon! I thought the pack was discontinued and I was sad when that happened but the lo, just the other day I came across your page and saw you had re-released it. I've only seen it briefly but I noticed tons of new textures! Crazy. It looks really really good and I'm so glad that it's out again... I'll give you some real feedback when I've used more in-depth.
Cheers
Awesome, thank you for commenting!
Before discontinuation, I had already made tons of changes already, yet my outlook was bleak. I continued working on it, and decided to re-release it on MCF when it was near what I would consider 100% done (with textures), and when I could prepare a full and enticing OP. For now, it's got most textures done (especially with the work I've been putting into it). I'm at the stage now where I've been adding a bunch of MCpatcher features because I actually use it now (at least in 13w39c) as my support for it (mainly the glass) and the advancement of MCpatcher has convinced me.
As far as feedback, I would love that. I've really utilized most (if not all) of the feedback I've gotten for the pack so far. I've also textured most "easy" ideas for textures that had, so feedback and new ideas for what I could do next would be great.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
The obsidian looks more like bedrock and the bedrock looks more like obsidian, When I hit bedrock I first thought it was obsidian until I hit F3 and saw I was at y=3. I think bedrock is the block that should stand out from other common survival blocks since its properties are very different and it becomes more apparent that you have hit bedrock. Obsidian on the other hand should look mineable but TOUGH. I propose a switch between the textures but keep the palette for each block
I understand where you are going with the mossy stone brick, I just feel that it wont fit in as well as the cracked stone brick currently do. Btw, the cracked stone bricks are awesome, they fit in really well with regular stone bricks and they also look really good all by themself (kinda like a second type of stonebrick)..
Ok, issues 2 and 3 from you should be fixed
Earlier, I released an update with animated bedrock, and then make it more "real" (I think I told you about that), and it should now "stand out" from survival blocks as you pointed out (if anyone is wondering, the animation is like a forcefield, or possibly something to "regenerate" the block, explaining pretty much infinite explosive and mining resistance in survival).
But why I'm really posting is because I think I've solved your mossy problem. I just released an update, I did some work on stone brick (making it much better), and one of the things I did was add horizontal CTM to mossy stonebrick.
I've only tested it in strongholds (looks much better), so if you could post another comparison in the same build that it was ugly in before, that'd be great. If you happen to find any more problems, or just want to give some opinions on changes, that'd be cool, too.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Alright, here goes. These are jut my general opinions, written out shortly as I notice them. They undoubtedly don't reflect everyone's opinions on the pack.
What works well:
Some logs and planks (specifically Oak log/plank and Birch log)
All of the leaves
The text and GUI in general
The grass top texture (and the random CTM for it)
Sand and Sandstone (specifically 24:0, not the bricks)
Biome coloring
Mycelium
Bedrock (it has a neat animation, pretty cool and unique)
Stone bricks (they're all really nice in my opinion, especially the CTM for the moss stone bricks)
Hardened clay
Bed (yay quilt!)
Chests, Torches, other wood-based items)
What doesn't work so well:
The colors of the pack in general: in some cases, I like it (see list above); in most cases, it kind of just seems willy nilly, and everything is super-duper-DUPER high contrast, almost too much for my personal tastes
The patterning on many blocks, such as dirt and stone: I see the top grass, and how subtle and pretty and soft it is, and I wish the stone and dirt matched that style; but instead they're these hard obvious patterns. Sad face. Maybe use more CTM to randomize and smooth things out.
The ferns: Again with the high contrast thing.
Theme: Or rather, the seeming lack there-of. I mostly just see high-contrast, old-school stuff, but without a general guiding theme that's apparent. Even packs like Summerfields, which you can't classify as "Medieval" or "RPG", have a theme of "summer" or "warm" or "rustic" or "soft". Try to unify everything so it fits some sort of very apparent theme for the user.
These are my general impressions when I boot up this pack. Lots of things I really like about it, and a few improvements I think could really help this get where you want it to be. I hope this helps!
I spent some time in Q-magnet's test world with your pack.
First a disclaimer. I don't especially like low-fi, retro pixel art, unless it is masterfully done. On the other hand, i've worked professionally as a designer and illustrator, and spent tons of hours working on or giving feedback on projects that didn't especially appeal to me. So i have experience with the difference between, "This is not something that appeals to me personally", and "This is badly done."
First impression: HIGH CONTRAST, high saturation. I don't know if you are echoing some particular era of retro gaming, but as i've said before, rigorously sticking to a palette is no substitute for having good colors. So while there may be some nostalgia value i'm unaware of, the effect is harsh and loud
Second impression: Randomness. You've changed a lot of stuff, but "why?" is not clear. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, or overarching pattern. Many of the things i can't tell what they are, and when i figure out what the block is, i still can't tell what you had in mind: glowstone, lamps, soulsand, endstone, villagers, iron golems, obsidian, TNT etc. A lot of blocks seem to revert to an unidentifiable diamond pattern.
You've obviously done a lot of work on different parts, but it doesn't come together into any kind of coherent visual or logical whole.
You really need to ask yourself what you primarily want to accomplish.
* Are you trying to make a random pack of all the alterations that appeal to you?
* Do you want to achieve pack popularity?
* Are you trying to exercise visual-arts skills, with building up to a possible career?
Any advice where to go from here would depend on answers to that question.
Thank you for this! I've got to say, a lot of what you said mirrors with my own thoughts, specifically on the contrast thing. Stone and dirt are 2 things I've really wanted to make look more natural, and being low contrast would really work for this, as I'm realizing now that maybe everything doesn't need form. I mean, a lot of artists like making wavy sand, but I really don't like that. With stone I fear I'll need to use CTM to make it look natural and good. Here are some changes I made after reading your post:
Before:
After:
I'll definitely try and fix these issues you mentioned, specifically contrast and style.....
* Are you trying to make a random pack of all the alterations that appeal to you?
* Do you want to achieve pack popularity?
* Are you trying to exercise visual-arts skills, with building up to a possible career?
Any advice where to go from here would depend on answers to that question.
I am trying to make a pack for myself, but not "random" and not *just for me. I would like others to use and enjoy the pack. I don't expect it to be super-popular, but medium-popularity with some community would be nice. I am indeed using the pack as a catalyst for my artistic skill and style.
Many of the things i can't tell what they are, and when i figure out what the block is, i still can't tell what you had in mind: glowstone, lamps, soulsand, endstone, villagers, iron golems, obsidian, TNT etc.
I don't really get this. For one, why is TNT in this list? For the most part, it's not much different from vanilla TNT other than the number of sticks differ (mine has the same # of sticks as # of gunpowder in the crafting recipe), the "TNT" label is replaced with a warning triangle, and the fuse is non-directional.
Villagers are "alien" and are intended to make you "feel more alone" as they aren't human and you wouldn't be able to communicate with them. I think that "alone" is and should be a major theme of Minecraft in SSP, shown with abandoned mineshafts and strongholds. Even villages are rare and small, distant from each other, and doomed to die in a zombie apocalypse without your actions.
Iron Golems are basically a robot where the pumpkin is integrated into it like a nervous system. The eyes are photosensors, and the leaf acts like a "aura sensor" to determine hostiles. The arms are basically giant saws.
Redstone Lamps: Made of Glowstone with the core drilled out and replaced with redstone dust, this light source is more "stable" (doesn't fade in and out) and also can be toggled on or off using a redstone signal.
In general to "randomness": am I not entitled to my own artistic interpretation? I sort of feel like "random" is more of an insult than anything (at very least poor choice or oversimplification of words). If you don't get some of my ideas, or they're not too apparent, I get it. But "random" is something I personally reserve for scribble packs that have partially neon colored blocks and meme faces plastered all over the place, mobs with headbands/moustaches, or some other nonsensical stuff.
I understand that some of it isn't always obvious, such as obsidian. Obsidian is supposed to look more "crystalline" to explain its strength, but nobody seems to realize it. What I really want to do is change it to Basalt, as I think there was a translation error and it was never supposed to be Obsidian in the first place. My point being, I always have a reason, even if it isn't always terribly clear.
However, I will be working on contrast as Rillian has made me realize, and patterns will also be something I'll be changing.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
II am trying to make a pack for myself, but not "random" and not *just for me. I would like others to use and enjoy the pack. I don't expect it to be super-popular, but medium-popularity with some community would be nice. I am indeed using the pack as a catalyst for my artistic skill and style.
If you want a pack that tells these off-beat stories about so many blocks, then i think you should seriously consider 32x or higher. 16x isn't enough room to communicate some of these ideas- with less than master skill.
If you want popularity you need some hook, or theme or style to the pack that people can easily grasp-- and follow through with that consistently.
If you want to grow as an artist think carefully about your visual style and palette. Consider a palette with a large share of colors that aren't near max saturation. And test your changes in-game.
A big part of being an artist is getting out of your own head and trying to see things from somebody else's perspective, who don't have all the inside knowledge that you do about your pack. To see just what's actually there.
I don't really get this. For one, why is TNT in this list? For the most part, it's not much different from vanilla TNT other than the number of sticks differ ([size=xx-small]mine has the same # of sticks as # of gunpowder in the crafting recipe), the "TNT" label is replaced with a warning triangle, and the fuse is non-directional.
Because i literally could not tell what i was looking at when i first saw it. I've never seen a tall/skinny warning triangle, and did not see it as such, though i can see it now that you can explain it-- but that's not the point. 99.9% of people look at texture packs, they don't read about them.
In general to "randomness": am I not entitled to my own artistic interpretation?
Sure you are entailed to your own take on things. For instance Murder's spin on MC is much more of a departure than yours. But his take has a thematic consistency that is comprehensible, and his art is up to the task of communicating his wacky ideas.
You may have a rational for why your glowstone/obsidian etc. is the way it is, but if your users look and just see some random dark pixels-- that backstory hasn't done anyone any good but you. If you want to tell a story, it is up to your art to convey it. If you can't make the art convey it without words, then consider carefully if this pack is more for you or more for the public.
Edit: if you want the villagers to give a feeling of isolation, the art doesn't support the idea. They are the most familiar stereotype of aliens, and appear at least as friendly as MC villagers
Another update on this, heavily changed wool reducing contrast (also redid nether brick):
Before:
After:
I also changed the colors. I think it's a much better representation/distribution of colors, with not so much eyeburn as before. For best effect, open both images in a new tab and switch between. I tried to make a .GIF, but there are too many colors :/
Yeah, I know. The likelihood of users understanding my concepts is partially proportional to my skill as an artist. Some of it just depends on the person, and some of it will make sense as the user uses the pack long enough. Some of my ideas are later replaced by more apparent ones that I can execute better. I've still got a ways to go, but I'm working on it.
And I can guarantee you that even though 13thmurder is working at a high resolution and is skilled, there are people that don't get certain ideas in his pack, at least at first. But probably some people won't get a few of the details or "jokes" unless someone points it out. It's just sort of like a "law of everything"..... if a stance CAN be taken, someone WILL take it.
As far as isolation goes, aliens, while a "stereotype" in my usage at least, is good at displaying isolation as they are..... well..... "alien"..... Yes, they're humanoid (not much I can do about that), but they're quite different from us, and that's the part that makes you feel more alone. They're more intelligent beings of an entirely different species and even different world..... mine even communicate sort of like in morse code.... I don't see how I can do better than that without modding or giving them HD textures that look like Cthulhu or higher tech armor that doesn't look human in nature at all (sort of like the Chimera in R:FoM?). At the very least, it should sort of give the feeling "I'll never be a part of this community, the best I can hope for is the hermit sentinel that lives on the edge of town, occasionally trading with the locals". I mean no, it's not very game-changing, I don't place too much importance on it, just hey, they aren't human or even anything from our planet.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I like the wools and the nether brick. Good job there! Now maybe try softening the stone and dirt?
Ok, softened dirt. Stone.... isn't so bad and doesn't bother me like dirt did. Like I said, I will redo it hopefully soon.
After:
(wow, just found out that spoilers make good image comparing tools if you set it up correctly)
I release an update with these changes I've been showing in screenshots so you can see them in-game!
Ok, I downloaded the pack! The grass is still standing out to me as being slightly unshaded, some shadows up at the top to have a more rounded feeling would be great.
Fixed, see screenshot above! The highlight is on the first two pixels, a bit moreso on the 2nd pixel row down. Made it look really odd, though, with the top row being significantly darker, especially with banding. I'm guessing shading round things that have design looks much better in 32x.
EDIT: I just saw an issue in the new screenshot.... stone slabs made brighter, because I accidentally grayscaled them (MC not rendering grayscale textures properly).... already fixed
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Oh my god this pack is looking better and better by the minute.
Thank you, I'm glad to hear someone say that! It was made possible by feedback from viewers like you!
(ok, I mean you)
(blue_dragon360, too, for the grass shading comment)
Q: What bothered you with the default textures?
A: Default just..... seemed (and still seems) very boring to me. It's not very artistic, the designs are boring, and the colors are quite lifeless.
Q: What idea did you have in mind when you started this pack?
A: I didn't have any idea really. I just wanted to make something my own, and make it to my preferences.
Q: What feeling do you want to arouse in your users?
A: Basically something bright and cheery that has its own ideas and feel, but does not detract from certain default ideas-in some cases enhancing them.
Q: Maybe you can list a few texture packs that you like and kinda match this theme you want to achieve yourself - what is the (existing) pack that you would like to have made?
A: I actually can't. Truth be told, I have never really used another texture pack for without the intention of looking at the pack-meaning I've never actually played the game with the intention of using an existing pack to make the game look "better". I saw the texture packs button when I started playing the game (around beta 1.2_02), and thought "hey, I bet texture packs are just .ZIP files with the same structure as the .JAR" and it turns out they were. As far as what "existing pack" I wish I made.... there isn't one, for the same reason I don't use other packs. My pack may not be the best (or arguable even "good" to some), it is my own creation.
As for theme- I'm not going for creepy/desolate. The main themes are colorful, bright, and happy. There are subtle creepy undertones. This is inspired by Courage the Cowardly Dog:
However, this is a *minor* theme, not a major one. Or maybe it's not even used enough to be considered a "theme"..... but used with some mobs and paintings. At the very least I don't want hostile mobs (except slimes) to look too cute. Villagers are more of a feature that I feel adds onto a theme of the game, not as a theme to the pack.
It can be of course way more detailed with a lot of possible backstory but you have to take in mind that it won't attract a majority of players if it is too special or strange.
Sadly, this is a goal of the pack. I'd eventually like to have a full set of lore for the pack. I know this won't draw too many people in, but I'm hoping that those who do use it will appreciate the ideas that change the feel of the game.
If you don´t have that done yet, you are most likely going to redo all the earlier textures over and over again to match the newer ones while you are still in the first stage of learning. I know you started this pack around 2 years ago but maybe you somehow stagnated at some point because you were never pleased with your results. That why I would suggest you to take a few steps back and start with the basic groundwork and then build up on it.
I actually stagnated due to others' lack of interest and my own feelings of minor depression, feelings of self worth, and dissatisfaction with Minecraft. I admit, I'm still going through one of those times. MCpatcher, music, TV shows (not public TV), and energy drinks help.
Nevertheless, I have still worked on it. The problem is not that I am not satisfied with the pack, but that I like it too much..... it takes me quite some time to think of what needs to be improved, and then when I do, how to make them better. For the dirt, I had a small case of cognitive dissonance, and Rillian pointed out the exact way I was feeling but didn't know it. Usually texturing sessions end up resulting in a large amount of textures or nothing at all.
And yes, I have and am redoing textures over and over again. I sort of feel like that's OK, though. Sure the pack is not unified, but it's got more variety, and I'm still experimenting and building on my style. There are many talented artists, such as Peyton and Steel, who make tons of packs usually 1 or 2 at a time, and have a unified style.... but they abandon them later as they improve as artists, possibly redoing them later. I don't want to do that. I want to make this pack and stick with it. Even if legacy textures are left in, I think more little details and improvement overall will result. Often times inspiration will randomly strike me-which never would probably happen if I had moved onto new and fresh projects. It's the problems I have now that need solving that I feel are a driving force towards better ideas in the future.
To be honest, I really don´t want to critique your pack in detail at the moment, since there are so many starting points where you could improve something. I´m just not made for this but I might be able to give you a bit of propulsion at the very least.
If you don't want to do an in-depth critique if you don't want to. Even pointing out some of the biggest areas in (specific) improvement will help. Especially those that I might not be aware of, or you haven't seen mentioned before.
In any case thank you, comments are nice, and even if it doesn't look like I'm dropping everything I'm doing or making great strides, trust me, I'm working on it. You at least will get the gears turning a bit, and influence the pack down the line
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Been about a half a year since this was active, and over a year since it was posted!
I updated the OP with my progress!
I didn't want to just announce that, but also a question: Should I post VTC in the WIP section? Should I wait until 1.8 is released (because of custom models being available to everyone) and then post it in WIP?
Is the WIP a place likely to get downloads and feedback?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Been about a half a year since this was active, and over a year since it was posted!
I updated the OP with my progress!
I didn't want to just announce that, but also a question: Should I post VTC in the WIP section? Should I wait until 1.8 is released (because of custom models being available to everyone) and then post it in WIP?
Is the WIP a place likely to get downloads and feedback?
WIP is probably your best bet for getting feedback/downloads. Dooo eeeettt
WIP is probably your best bet for getting feedback/downloads. Dooo eeeettt
I'm still wondering if it would be "jumping the gun" a bit like when I first released my pack, which landed it a cushy spot in the Guinness Book of Internet Records for worst texture pack (which it was at the time) turnout ever (time, dedication, and effort considered).
I feel like a re-release is going to set the tone for the rest of its life here on MCF. Almost 3 years has passed since it started, and another failed release will likely mean it will never hold a place on MCF.
The custom models feature is one I think sets my pack apart from others and makes it more visually pleasing. This will be even more true once more features are added to the format and 1.8 is released. That will also make sure that everyone using stable will have access to them.
However, I MAY re-release it in the WIP on the 3rd anniversary of the original release (July 12th) if you guys think it is ready for the section (I have no idea what the users there are like or if they will take interest), and definitely if I can make major improvements before then. More publicity (such as from someone like FreestyleOMG or Bebopvox, but only if models were focused on, 14w11b would give models and MCpatcher) would also make me more comfortable doing this as it'd give me a new video to put on the page. Theqmagnet's review was awesome, but that is from last september, and I made a lot of changes since then! (many thanks to his video)
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is page presentation. I change things fairly quickly, and updating images gets quite tedious. The result being that my images become outdated, for a while. Which is another reason for a later release date, because then less will need to be changed and the pack will generally "look better".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I feel like a re-release is going to set the tone for the rest of its life here on MCF. Almost 3 years has passed since it started, and another failed release will likely mean it will never hold a place on MCF.
I really don't think the state of a pack at release is as big a deal as you feel it is. I suspect the large majority of texture pack post views are driven from outside: PMC, youtube links etc. But the portion that comes from MCF has little memory. The random forum user who stumbles across your page will respond according to what your top post looks like at that moment-- not what it looked like when your first wrote it. And the random forum user is very unlikely to see your post if it is not in the first few pages. Update your thread if you want responses.
Oh, okay! I will download the pack and see.
It has the change Filmjolk wanted, plus the vines I changed because of Goodlyay's feedback, but more importantly has a new animated bedrock texture.
I personally like it, but I'm not sure. People don't really BUILD with bedrock besides spawn jails, do they?
Might (or might-not) be eye-hurty, but didn't give me a headache or anything despite no sleep.
Basically, bedrock is some sort of force field, and that's why it's nearly indestructible. The idea started off as electrons and that they were protecting (somehow) some sort of space, with stars and stuff in it, but that'd probably be too hard to pull off under the animation, plus animating that and tiling, ugh. It would be under-appreciated and overthought by some as relating to the villagers, which in mentality, it wouldn't be.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but I updated the pack on PMC to include changes to the stone slabs that you saw, but I actually made it have a bit more brightness/contrast.
I also changes the weighting of random mossy stone bricks, so the least mossy version is the most common, so hopefully that helps mossy stone bricks blend in a bit more with stone bricks.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Cheers
Awesome, thank you for commenting!
Before discontinuation, I had already made tons of changes already, yet my outlook was bleak. I continued working on it, and decided to re-release it on MCF when it was near what I would consider 100% done (with textures), and when I could prepare a full and enticing OP. For now, it's got most textures done (especially with the work I've been putting into it). I'm at the stage now where I've been adding a bunch of MCpatcher features because I actually use it now (at least in 13w39c) as my support for it (mainly the glass) and the advancement of MCpatcher has convinced me.
As far as feedback, I would love that. I've really utilized most (if not all) of the feedback I've gotten for the pack so far. I've also textured most "easy" ideas for textures that had, so feedback and new ideas for what I could do next would be great.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Ok, issues 2 and 3 from you should be fixed
Earlier, I released an update with animated bedrock, and then make it more "real" (I think I told you about that), and it should now "stand out" from survival blocks as you pointed out (if anyone is wondering, the animation is like a forcefield, or possibly something to "regenerate" the block, explaining pretty much infinite explosive and mining resistance in survival).
But why I'm really posting is because I think I've solved your mossy problem. I just released an update, I did some work on stone brick (making it much better), and one of the things I did was add horizontal CTM to mossy stonebrick.
I've only tested it in strongholds (looks much better), so if you could post another comparison in the same build that it was ugly in before, that'd be great. If you happen to find any more problems, or just want to give some opinions on changes, that'd be cool, too.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
What works well:
What doesn't work so well:
These are my general impressions when I boot up this pack. Lots of things I really like about it, and a few improvements I think could really help this get where you want it to be. I hope this helps!
First a disclaimer. I don't especially like low-fi, retro pixel art, unless it is masterfully done. On the other hand, i've worked professionally as a designer and illustrator, and spent tons of hours working on or giving feedback on projects that didn't especially appeal to me. So i have experience with the difference between, "This is not something that appeals to me personally", and "This is badly done."
First impression: HIGH CONTRAST, high saturation. I don't know if you are echoing some particular era of retro gaming, but as i've said before, rigorously sticking to a palette is no substitute for having good colors. So while there may be some nostalgia value i'm unaware of, the effect is harsh and loud
Second impression: Randomness. You've changed a lot of stuff, but "why?" is not clear. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, or overarching pattern. Many of the things i can't tell what they are, and when i figure out what the block is, i still can't tell what you had in mind: glowstone, lamps, soulsand, endstone, villagers, iron golems, obsidian, TNT etc. A lot of blocks seem to revert to an unidentifiable diamond pattern.
You've obviously done a lot of work on different parts, but it doesn't come together into any kind of coherent visual or logical whole.
You really need to ask yourself what you primarily want to accomplish.
* Are you trying to make a random pack of all the alterations that appeal to you?
* Do you want to achieve pack popularity?
* Are you trying to exercise visual-arts skills, with building up to a possible career?
Any advice where to go from here would depend on answers to that question.
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* Join the Lithos Discord for previews and to help
Thank you for this! I've got to say, a lot of what you said mirrors with my own thoughts, specifically on the contrast thing. Stone and dirt are 2 things I've really wanted to make look more natural, and being low contrast would really work for this, as I'm realizing now that maybe everything doesn't need form. I mean, a lot of artists like making wavy sand, but I really don't like that. With stone I fear I'll need to use CTM to make it look natural and good. Here are some changes I made after reading your post:
Before:
After:
I'll definitely try and fix these issues you mentioned, specifically contrast and style.....
I am trying to make a pack for myself, but not "random" and not *just for me. I would like others to use and enjoy the pack. I don't expect it to be super-popular, but medium-popularity with some community would be nice. I am indeed using the pack as a catalyst for my artistic skill and style.
Many of the things i can't tell what they are, and when i figure out what the block is, i still can't tell what you had in mind: glowstone, lamps, soulsand, endstone, villagers, iron golems, obsidian, TNT etc.
I don't really get this. For one, why is TNT in this list? For the most part, it's not much different from vanilla TNT other than the number of sticks differ (mine has the same # of sticks as # of gunpowder in the crafting recipe), the "TNT" label is replaced with a warning triangle, and the fuse is non-directional.
Villagers are "alien" and are intended to make you "feel more alone" as they aren't human and you wouldn't be able to communicate with them. I think that "alone" is and should be a major theme of Minecraft in SSP, shown with abandoned mineshafts and strongholds. Even villages are rare and small, distant from each other, and doomed to die in a zombie apocalypse without your actions.
Iron Golems are basically a robot where the pumpkin is integrated into it like a nervous system. The eyes are photosensors, and the leaf acts like a "aura sensor" to determine hostiles. The arms are basically giant saws.
Redstone Lamps: Made of Glowstone with the core drilled out and replaced with redstone dust, this light source is more "stable" (doesn't fade in and out) and also can be toggled on or off using a redstone signal.
In general to "randomness": am I not entitled to my own artistic interpretation? I sort of feel like "random" is more of an insult than anything (at very least poor choice or oversimplification of words). If you don't get some of my ideas, or they're not too apparent, I get it. But "random" is something I personally reserve for scribble packs that have partially neon colored blocks and meme faces plastered all over the place, mobs with headbands/moustaches, or some other nonsensical stuff.
I understand that some of it isn't always obvious, such as obsidian. Obsidian is supposed to look more "crystalline" to explain its strength, but nobody seems to realize it. What I really want to do is change it to Basalt, as I think there was a translation error and it was never supposed to be Obsidian in the first place. My point being, I always have a reason, even if it isn't always terribly clear.
However, I will be working on contrast as Rillian has made me realize, and patterns will also be something I'll be changing.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
If you want a pack that tells these off-beat stories about so many blocks, then i think you should seriously consider 32x or higher. 16x isn't enough room to communicate some of these ideas- with less than master skill.
If you want popularity you need some hook, or theme or style to the pack that people can easily grasp-- and follow through with that consistently.
If you want to grow as an artist think carefully about your visual style and palette. Consider a palette with a large share of colors that aren't near max saturation. And test your changes in-game.
A big part of being an artist is getting out of your own head and trying to see things from somebody else's perspective, who don't have all the inside knowledge that you do about your pack. To see just what's actually there.
Because i literally could not tell what i was looking at when i first saw it. I've never seen a tall/skinny warning triangle, and did not see it as such, though i can see it now that you can explain it-- but that's not the point. 99.9% of people look at texture packs, they don't read about them.
Sure you are entailed to your own take on things. For instance Murder's spin on MC is much more of a departure than yours. But his take has a thematic consistency that is comprehensible, and his art is up to the task of communicating his wacky ideas.
You may have a rational for why your glowstone/obsidian etc. is the way it is, but if your users look and just see some random dark pixels-- that backstory hasn't done anyone any good but you. If you want to tell a story, it is up to your art to convey it. If you can't make the art convey it without words, then consider carefully if this pack is more for you or more for the public.
Edit: if you want the villagers to give a feeling of isolation, the art doesn't support the idea. They are the most familiar stereotype of aliens, and appear at least as friendly as MC villagers
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* Join the Lithos Discord for previews and to help
Another update on this, heavily changed wool reducing contrast (also redid nether brick):
Before:
After:
I also changed the colors. I think it's a much better representation/distribution of colors, with not so much eyeburn as before. For best effect, open both images in a new tab and switch between. I tried to make a .GIF, but there are too many colors :/
Yeah, I know. The likelihood of users understanding my concepts is partially proportional to my skill as an artist. Some of it just depends on the person, and some of it will make sense as the user uses the pack long enough. Some of my ideas are later replaced by more apparent ones that I can execute better. I've still got a ways to go, but I'm working on it.
And I can guarantee you that even though 13thmurder is working at a high resolution and is skilled, there are people that don't get certain ideas in his pack, at least at first. But probably some people won't get a few of the details or "jokes" unless someone points it out. It's just sort of like a "law of everything"..... if a stance CAN be taken, someone WILL take it.
As far as isolation goes, aliens, while a "stereotype" in my usage at least, is good at displaying isolation as they are..... well..... "alien"..... Yes, they're humanoid (not much I can do about that), but they're quite different from us, and that's the part that makes you feel more alone. They're more intelligent beings of an entirely different species and even different world..... mine even communicate sort of like in morse code.... I don't see how I can do better than that without modding or giving them HD textures that look like Cthulhu or higher tech armor that doesn't look human in nature at all (sort of like the Chimera in R:FoM?). At the very least, it should sort of give the feeling "I'll never be a part of this community, the best I can hope for is the hermit sentinel that lives on the edge of town, occasionally trading with the locals". I mean no, it's not very game-changing, I don't place too much importance on it, just hey, they aren't human or even anything from our planet.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I like the wools and the nether brick. Good job there! Now maybe try softening the stone and dirt?
Ok, softened dirt. Stone.... isn't so bad and doesn't bother me like dirt did. Like I said, I will redo it hopefully soon.
After:
(wow, just found out that spoilers make good image comparing tools if you set it up correctly)
I release an update with these changes I've been showing in screenshots so you can see them in-game!
Fixed, see screenshot above! The highlight is on the first two pixels, a bit moreso on the 2nd pixel row down. Made it look really odd, though, with the top row being significantly darker, especially with banding. I'm guessing shading round things that have design looks much better in 32x.
EDIT: I just saw an issue in the new screenshot.... stone slabs made brighter, because I accidentally grayscaled them (MC not rendering grayscale textures properly).... already fixed
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Oh my god this pack is looking better and better by the minute.
Thank you, I'm glad to hear someone say that! It was made possible by feedback from viewers like you!
(ok, I mean you)
(blue_dragon360, too, for the grass shading comment)
Q: What bothered you with the default textures?
A: Default just..... seemed (and still seems) very boring to me. It's not very artistic, the designs are boring, and the colors are quite lifeless.
Q: What idea did you have in mind when you started this pack?
A: I didn't have any idea really. I just wanted to make something my own, and make it to my preferences.
Q: What feeling do you want to arouse in your users?
A: Basically something bright and cheery that has its own ideas and feel, but does not detract from certain default ideas-in some cases enhancing them.
Q: Maybe you can list a few texture packs that you like and kinda match this theme you want to achieve yourself - what is the (existing) pack that you would like to have made?
A: I actually can't. Truth be told, I have never really used another texture pack for without the intention of looking at the pack-meaning I've never actually played the game with the intention of using an existing pack to make the game look "better". I saw the texture packs button when I started playing the game (around beta 1.2_02), and thought "hey, I bet texture packs are just .ZIP files with the same structure as the .JAR" and it turns out they were. As far as what "existing pack" I wish I made.... there isn't one, for the same reason I don't use other packs. My pack may not be the best (or arguable even "good" to some), it is my own creation.
As for theme- I'm not going for creepy/desolate. The main themes are colorful, bright, and happy. There are subtle creepy undertones. This is inspired by Courage the Cowardly Dog:
However, this is a *minor* theme, not a major one. Or maybe it's not even used enough to be considered a "theme"..... but used with some mobs and paintings. At the very least I don't want hostile mobs (except slimes) to look too cute. Villagers are more of a feature that I feel adds onto a theme of the game, not as a theme to the pack.
Sadly, this is a goal of the pack. I'd eventually like to have a full set of lore for the pack. I know this won't draw too many people in, but I'm hoping that those who do use it will appreciate the ideas that change the feel of the game.
I actually stagnated due to others' lack of interest and my own feelings of minor depression, feelings of self worth, and dissatisfaction with Minecraft. I admit, I'm still going through one of those times. MCpatcher, music, TV shows (not public TV), and energy drinks help.
Nevertheless, I have still worked on it. The problem is not that I am not satisfied with the pack, but that I like it too much..... it takes me quite some time to think of what needs to be improved, and then when I do, how to make them better. For the dirt, I had a small case of cognitive dissonance, and Rillian pointed out the exact way I was feeling but didn't know it. Usually texturing sessions end up resulting in a large amount of textures or nothing at all.
And yes, I have and am redoing textures over and over again. I sort of feel like that's OK, though. Sure the pack is not unified, but it's got more variety, and I'm still experimenting and building on my style. There are many talented artists, such as Peyton and Steel, who make tons of packs usually 1 or 2 at a time, and have a unified style.... but they abandon them later as they improve as artists, possibly redoing them later. I don't want to do that. I want to make this pack and stick with it. Even if legacy textures are left in, I think more little details and improvement overall will result. Often times inspiration will randomly strike me-which never would probably happen if I had moved onto new and fresh projects. It's the problems I have now that need solving that I feel are a driving force towards better ideas in the future.
If you don't want to do an in-depth critique if you don't want to. Even pointing out some of the biggest areas in (specific) improvement will help. Especially those that I might not be aware of, or you haven't seen mentioned before.
In any case thank you, comments are nice, and even if it doesn't look like I'm dropping everything I'm doing or making great strides, trust me, I'm working on it. You at least will get the gears turning a bit, and influence the pack down the line
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I updated the OP with my progress!
I didn't want to just announce that, but also a question: Should I post VTC in the WIP section? Should I wait until 1.8 is released (because of custom models being available to everyone) and then post it in WIP?
Is the WIP a place likely to get downloads and feedback?
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
WIP is probably your best bet for getting feedback/downloads. Dooo eeeettt
I'm still wondering if it would be "jumping the gun" a bit like when I first released my pack, which landed it a cushy spot in the Guinness Book of Internet Records for worst texture pack (which it was at the time) turnout ever (time, dedication, and effort considered).
I feel like a re-release is going to set the tone for the rest of its life here on MCF. Almost 3 years has passed since it started, and another failed release will likely mean it will never hold a place on MCF.
The custom models feature is one I think sets my pack apart from others and makes it more visually pleasing. This will be even more true once more features are added to the format and 1.8 is released. That will also make sure that everyone using stable will have access to them.
However, I MAY re-release it in the WIP on the 3rd anniversary of the original release (July 12th) if you guys think it is ready for the section (I have no idea what the users there are like or if they will take interest), and definitely if I can make major improvements before then. More publicity (such as from someone like FreestyleOMG or Bebopvox, but only if models were focused on, 14w11b would give models and MCpatcher) would also make me more comfortable doing this as it'd give me a new video to put on the page. Theqmagnet's review was awesome, but that is from last september, and I made a lot of changes since then! (many thanks to his video)
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is page presentation. I change things fairly quickly, and updating images gets quite tedious. The result being that my images become outdated, for a while. Which is another reason for a later release date, because then less will need to be changed and the pack will generally "look better".
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I really don't think the state of a pack at release is as big a deal as you feel it is. I suspect the large majority of texture pack post views are driven from outside: PMC, youtube links etc. But the portion that comes from MCF has little memory. The random forum user who stumbles across your page will respond according to what your top post looks like at that moment-- not what it looked like when your first wrote it. And the random forum user is very unlikely to see your post if it is not in the first few pages. Update your thread if you want responses.
• Follow Lithos on Twitter for release announcments
* Join the Lithos Discord for previews and to help