I have seen a couple threads already about how people hate the new way textures work and, like every update, they do not know what this actually means.
1: Texture packs
Texture packs are broken and extremely hard to create now, right? Nope. Once the texture pack is made, new blocks would never be the blank-see through stuff, instead the blocks will use their default textures if the pack doesn't cover it. Sure the files are a bit scattered, but Dinnerbone already created a program to solve that.
2: Mods
Now, I am not very knowledged in the mod part of the new update, but I believe this is one step closer for mods to be able to be in servers
Lets not forget that when new items are added to the game they will no longer have broken textures because you hadn't updated the pack yet. So less pressure on us to update the very moment a new version goes live.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
- You can now have textures with different resolutions (so a 16x pack, with 15x textures for once which needs centering such as lilypad)
As far as I know, Dinnerbone has confirmed you can't use different resolutions for like-type items. All terrain items will need to be the same resolution, all items need to be the same... and so on. You can use different resolutions between image types(16x terrain and 32x items) but that's the extent. This is because the game stitches all the tiles into a terrain.png type of format for faster rendering and such.
Then I might be wrong, but thiswouldn't work if you're right...
It should work, but it doesn't.
I converted my pack for the new format, and here's the result:
You'll see in the background that the 15x textures are mapped to 16x and to prove a point the gold blocks in the front are 17x mapped to 32x (because the mapping code is very cheap).
(15x terrain.png in 1.4.5)
I feel like it could work if they just fixed the mapping code to allow non-standard resolution textures.
As far as I know, Dinnerbone has confirmed you can't use different resolutions for like-type items. All terrain items will need to be the same resolution, all items need to be the same... and so on. You can use different resolutions between image types(16x terrain and 32x items) but that's the extent. This is because the game stitches all the tiles into a terrain.png type of format for faster rendering and such.
Actually, according to Mojang as a whole one of the reasons for the new system is so you can do exactly that.
Quote from Mojang »
Notes about the new texture pack system
Starting from this snapshot and forward, blocks and items will no longer load their artwork from one big sheet of sprites. Instead, they’ll have individual files for each image they’re using. The benefit from this is that it will be easier for us to support custom blocks and items in the future. It will also allow us to mix and match block artwork resolutions, and make sure that you get graphics for blocks that your current texture pack isn’t updated for.
I think it has even been mentioned before that that you could theoretically "have 16x items but 32x tools" or something to that effect.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
-snip-
I feel like it could work if they just fixed the mapping code to allow non-standard resolution textures.
Although it is a really cool idea I think their changes seem to be focused around streamlined. As we all know with past things perfect placement was always important. Maybe they made it so it was standard so coding something and saying it should take x% of ____ texture file would work. Rather than some mods/textures work together and some break each other. That would be my only thought of why it may not work to make it non-standard sizes.
edit: fixed my horrible structure in what I typed. (I need more coffee or sleep)
The new systeme is only good for people who are only mixing textures to make new texture packs.
But the new system will be the hell to create real new packs, because you cannot ajduste two or more small pictures in different frames because border of frames are missleading the color feeling of tiny pictures.
This means we have to put all textures first in one picture, and separate them again in small texture units after applying changes like filters and other changes.
Second point: Having different resolution in a texture will break the design of textures packs. There will be much more work for texture pack maker to have good results.
In my opinion we are going to have more and more poor quality pack because update release of pack will no more be made as often as before we get all these changes.
For me, there will be no update any more for snapshots. I am going to make next update only when a real well maded update of minecraft is released.
The new systeme is only good for people who are only mixing textures to make new texture packs.
But the new system will be the hell to create real new packs, because you cannot ajduste two or more small pictures in different frames because border of frames are missleading the color feeling of tiny pictures.
This means we have to put all textures first in one picture, and separate them again in small texture units after applying changes like filters and other changes.
Have you tried it yet? You know theres a program that wlll cut up your terrain.png file to the individual blocks yes? So what is stopping you from making a pack the old way, and then running it though a simple program and have an insta pack for 1.5, plus the bonus of a terrain.png file for older versions?
I'm enjoying this new methood, and have already updated my pack (not yet released) to the new format, and yes, not all the textures are updated, but I'm having no issues updating, or adding anything. So I see no issues. Shoot with the support for new resolutions with out patching the game, I've already started on a new pack idea I've been wanting to do, and STILL have not had -any- issues making a new pack.
The idea that you have to take all the images and put them together is just flat out silly. As is many of us make our textures each in their own file thats the size of the texture, NOT make it inside the terrain.png. This way we can apply effects -just- to that texturer and even offset it to make sure it tiles alright. The new format just cuts out the middle ground of copying texture to new file, editing, it, then pasting it back to terrain.png. Now it's already it's own file, bonus!
See? a 32x packs of mine. Terrain file, plus texture I'm working on in it's own file, plus another I'm using to test tileing, and that is as simple as clicking the single tile, and telling it to make it a pattern, then paint bucketing it into a new bigger file.
Once done, paste back into terrain.png.
Only now... I don't have to copy, or paste into the terrain.. It's as is.. saves time and work!
Second point: Having different resolution in a texture will break the design of textures packs. There will be much more work for texture pack maker to have good results.
In my opinion we are going to have more and more poor quality pack because update release of pack will no more be made as often as before we get all these changes.
For me, there will be no update any more for snapshots. I am going to make next update only when a real well maded update of minecraft is released.
Thats only in your head. Theres no more work to make good results then if we made a pack the old way. Even mixing and matching size's I don't see how that can end up putting out poor packs. To me such would give us a lot more freedom to be creative and put out something really good. I've been dieing to be able to mix texture size's as some of my textures would look better if they were upsized (like my wools) while the rest remained at 16x. Or shoot up the size of my tools. I'm more use to spriting for 32x size's then 16, so its a bit harder for me to get things to look right item wize at 16x.
Really what you are saying is all speculation in your own head. Yes Im sure bad packs will come out of it, but shoot bad packs already come out of what we had before. This new set up wont change any of that.
Flat out: Texture artists that are good at what they do will make good packs, regardless of size. Bad ones however... well they can ether improve over time, as has always been.. or just... stay bad.
I know about image slicing packs. I use MTC (Minecraft Terrain Changer) since beginning to create libraries.
But when you create a new pack you need an overview of your pack to see if things fit together . You need it also to avoid optical color illusions. And for that you need to put 2 images side by side without frame borders.
Just an exemple of color illusion:
Same colors or not ?
I dont use photoshop but i use photoimpact . In this programm each single texture can be keept as a single element easy to be select to apply filter or effects (in nativ format) . I can move 2 textures or more side by side to verifie things.
Now imagine making a new bed with new system.......
The problem is not how to do things, cause there are many ways , but how much time you need for it. In my photoimpact i can quickly change something and save in right format. But now you will need 10 time more time to do same thing. And you have 10 time more chance to make a mistake like overwritting previews files.
I understand your concerns. The changes made are actually pretty standard for most games so it will make future implements easier. Although I get that it may take more time it is just going to be this way till you streamline you way of doing things as I am sure you did when you first started making textures. Although I understand the comparison of items I don't understand why every item would need to be seen together other than in game. With the colors that is what pre-made palettes before hand are for so you may want to get yourself an understanding of those if you don't have one already.
As it has been said though you can continue to do it the same way you always have with no issues. You will just need to run the unsticher provided by dinnerbone so ultimately just making 1 extra step to run the program to unstitch and 2 to rename the zip file.
You just forget new textures like the quartz who are no more in terrain.png and all new blocks comming in futur. (I missed the quartz with the new system.Thanks for the snapshot preview from Bebop Vox)
So goodbye with only "1 extra step " with dinnerborne
The convertion is only good for now to convert recent packs.
Maybe its standard to have single texture files, but professional gamemaker have tools to preview design change on fly in there game developpement.
We are juste playing around with a sandbox game and standard graphic programms cheaper than photoshop.
Maybe in futur someone is going to make a good texture editor for Minecraft. But i dont dream so far.
It is just as easay to add them to the old terrain file and update the unstircher to tell it 'these blocks are here' it's not that hard at all.
And to be fair, what is stopping you from just say like, viewing all the textures together in your browser window, or even draging some into your program and viewing them? You truly are making this sound so much harder then it really is.
I also want to say, I am a graphics designer. I have also made graphics for games, both free to play and commercial. We use the same tools we do now. PHOTOSHOP. There are no 'tools' to preview designs. I've worked in an office to create graphics for one game and everyone on the graphics team had... PHOTOSHOP.
Need to compare images? Open them all up! It is -that easy-
All you seem to be doing is trying to argue about how hard it's going to be for -all of us- yet it is truly no different in making textures then it was before. No extra insain steps like you keep trying to say we'll need to do.
Oh wow that is SOO hard to do.
OMG THATS SO HARD TO DO!
Or you know, open up just the files you need to compare if you that badly need to.
Making new beds? or doors? Make a new file of their size and go to town... split it in half then.. done.
It's called learning and adapting, instead of wining and moaping how it's going to be oh so hard in your head, try and fiddle with it like the rest of us are, find what works. I find this much easier to work with.
I didn't say its hard to do . I just said more time is needed.
Photoshop is a pro graphic programm and has all tools for 3d texturing and preview. That is the reason why more and more game designer are using it. But not all nob designer have money to buy a rolls-royce just for making textures for minecraft.
Lets not forget that when new items are added to the game they will no longer have broken textures because you hadn't updated the pack yet. So less pressure on us to update the very moment a new version goes live.
This has to be one of the best reasons why I like the texture update. Another being the fact that all blocks and Items can have animations now without mods.
For those who didn't know either there seems to be a bug with flowing lava/water animations longer than 16 frames.
On the last frame of flowing water/lava in longer than 16 frame animation it will freeze for a second then continue the animation, I think its just some leftover code from pre-13w02a/b.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Arrival of Darkness, Darker yet recognizable textures.
This has to be one of the best reasons why I like the texture update. Another being the fact that all blocks and Items can have animations now without mods.
For those who didn't know either there seems to be a bug with flowing lava/water animations longer than 16 frames.
On the last frame of flowing water/lava in longer than 16 frame animation it will freeze for a second then continue the animation, I think its just some leftover code from pre-13w02a/b.
Yeah, I already had this in a different thread. There exist default water, lava, and lava_flow text files. You'll need to overwrite them in order to have animation lengths of your own choosing.
Yeah, I already had this in a different thread. There exist default water, lava, and lava_flow text files. You'll need to overwrite them in order to have animation lengths of your own choosing.
I have a custom lava animation currently that is 64 frames long and when it plays the 64th frame will freeze up every time.
Here's the txt file if you want to see it
I have a custom lava animation currently that is 64 frames long and when it plays the 64th frame will freeze up every time.
Here's the txt file if you want to see it
I didn't say its hard to do . I just said more time is needed.
Photoshop is a pro graphic programm and has all tools for 3d texturing and preview. That is the reason why more and more game designer are using it. But not all nob designer have money to buy a rolls-royce just for making textures for minecraft.
You know gimp is a free alt to photoshop right? It works just about the same. Paint.net is also nice for pixel work. All can do the same preview thing. Really, theres no extra time aside what your skill allows for. I can pop out textures just as good in nrmal paint that I can in photoshop.
You also know, Adobe's giving CS2 out for free hmmm? http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html
So if you're that hooked on programs, or how hard it is still. Get with this 'big boys' and get yourself photoshop while the offer lasts.
1: Texture packs
Texture packs are broken and extremely hard to create now, right? Nope. Once the texture pack is made, new blocks would never be the blank-see through stuff, instead the blocks will use their default textures if the pack doesn't cover it. Sure the files are a bit scattered, but Dinnerbone already created a program to solve that.
2: Mods
Now, I am not very knowledged in the mod part of the new update, but I believe this is one step closer for mods to be able to be in servers
If I missed anything, please say.
Contest hosted for Steelfeathers' Enchanted Pack
Darn. Thanks for the info.
Contest hosted for Steelfeathers' Enchanted Pack
As far as I know, Dinnerbone has confirmed you can't use different resolutions for like-type items. All terrain items will need to be the same resolution, all items need to be the same... and so on. You can use different resolutions between image types(16x terrain and 32x items) but that's the extent. This is because the game stitches all the tiles into a terrain.png type of format for faster rendering and such.
It should work, but it doesn't.
I converted my pack for the new format, and here's the result:
You'll see in the background that the 15x textures are mapped to 16x and to prove a point the gold blocks in the front are 17x mapped to 32x (because the mapping code is very cheap).
(15x terrain.png in 1.4.5)
I feel like it could work if they just fixed the mapping code to allow non-standard resolution textures.
Actually, according to Mojang as a whole one of the reasons for the new system is so you can do exactly that.
I think it has even been mentioned before that that you could theoretically "have 16x items but 32x tools" or something to that effect.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Although it is a really cool idea I think their changes seem to be focused around streamlined. As we all know with past things perfect placement was always important. Maybe they made it so it was standard so coding something and saying it should take x% of ____ texture file would work. Rather than some mods/textures work together and some break each other. That would be my only thought of why it may not work to make it non-standard sizes.
edit: fixed my horrible structure in what I typed. (I need more coffee or sleep)
But the new system will be the hell to create real new packs, because you cannot ajduste two or more small pictures in different frames because border of frames are missleading the color feeling of tiny pictures.
This means we have to put all textures first in one picture, and separate them again in small texture units after applying changes like filters and other changes.
Second point: Having different resolution in a texture will break the design of textures packs. There will be much more work for texture pack maker to have good results.
In my opinion we are going to have more and more poor quality pack because update release of pack will no more be made as often as before we get all these changes.
For me, there will be no update any more for snapshots. I am going to make next update only when a real well maded update of minecraft is released.
Have you tried it yet? You know theres a program that wlll cut up your terrain.png file to the individual blocks yes? So what is stopping you from making a pack the old way, and then running it though a simple program and have an insta pack for 1.5, plus the bonus of a terrain.png file for older versions?
I'm enjoying this new methood, and have already updated my pack (not yet released) to the new format, and yes, not all the textures are updated, but I'm having no issues updating, or adding anything. So I see no issues. Shoot with the support for new resolutions with out patching the game, I've already started on a new pack idea I've been wanting to do, and STILL have not had -any- issues making a new pack.
The idea that you have to take all the images and put them together is just flat out silly. As is many of us make our textures each in their own file thats the size of the texture, NOT make it inside the terrain.png. This way we can apply effects -just- to that texturer and even offset it to make sure it tiles alright. The new format just cuts out the middle ground of copying texture to new file, editing, it, then pasting it back to terrain.png. Now it's already it's own file, bonus!
See? a 32x packs of mine. Terrain file, plus texture I'm working on in it's own file, plus another I'm using to test tileing, and that is as simple as clicking the single tile, and telling it to make it a pattern, then paint bucketing it into a new bigger file.
Once done, paste back into terrain.png.
Only now... I don't have to copy, or paste into the terrain.. It's as is.. saves time and work!
Thats only in your head. Theres no more work to make good results then if we made a pack the old way. Even mixing and matching size's I don't see how that can end up putting out poor packs. To me such would give us a lot more freedom to be creative and put out something really good. I've been dieing to be able to mix texture size's as some of my textures would look better if they were upsized (like my wools) while the rest remained at 16x. Or shoot up the size of my tools. I'm more use to spriting for 32x size's then 16, so its a bit harder for me to get things to look right item wize at 16x.
Really what you are saying is all speculation in your own head. Yes Im sure bad packs will come out of it, but shoot bad packs already come out of what we had before. This new set up wont change any of that.
Flat out: Texture artists that are good at what they do will make good packs, regardless of size. Bad ones however... well they can ether improve over time, as has always been.. or just... stay bad.
But when you create a new pack you need an overview of your pack to see if things fit together . You need it also to avoid optical color illusions. And for that you need to put 2 images side by side without frame borders.
Just an exemple of color illusion:
Same colors or not ?
I dont use photoshop but i use photoimpact . In this programm each single texture can be keept as a single element easy to be select to apply filter or effects (in nativ format) . I can move 2 textures or more side by side to verifie things.
Now imagine making a new bed with new system.......
The problem is not how to do things, cause there are many ways , but how much time you need for it. In my photoimpact i can quickly change something and save in right format. But now you will need 10 time more time to do same thing. And you have 10 time more chance to make a mistake like overwritting previews files.
I understand your concerns. The changes made are actually pretty standard for most games so it will make future implements easier. Although I get that it may take more time it is just going to be this way till you streamline you way of doing things as I am sure you did when you first started making textures. Although I understand the comparison of items I don't understand why every item would need to be seen together other than in game. With the colors that is what pre-made palettes before hand are for so you may want to get yourself an understanding of those if you don't have one already.
As it has been said though you can continue to do it the same way you always have with no issues. You will just need to run the unsticher provided by dinnerbone so ultimately just making 1 extra step to run the program to unstitch and 2 to rename the zip file.
You just forget new textures like the quartz who are no more in terrain.png and all new blocks comming in futur. (I missed the quartz with the new system.Thanks for the snapshot preview from Bebop Vox)
So goodbye with only "1 extra step " with dinnerborne
The convertion is only good for now to convert recent packs.
Maybe its standard to have single texture files, but professional gamemaker have tools to preview design change on fly in there game developpement.
We are juste playing around with a sandbox game and standard graphic programms cheaper than photoshop.
Maybe in futur someone is going to make a good texture editor for Minecraft. But i dont dream so far.
And to be fair, what is stopping you from just say like, viewing all the textures together in your browser window, or even draging some into your program and viewing them? You truly are making this sound so much harder then it really is.
I also want to say, I am a graphics designer. I have also made graphics for games, both free to play and commercial. We use the same tools we do now. PHOTOSHOP. There are no 'tools' to preview designs. I've worked in an office to create graphics for one game and everyone on the graphics team had... PHOTOSHOP.
Need to compare images? Open them all up! It is -that easy-
All you seem to be doing is trying to argue about how hard it's going to be for -all of us- yet it is truly no different in making textures then it was before. No extra insain steps like you keep trying to say we'll need to do.
Oh wow that is SOO hard to do.
OMG THATS SO HARD TO DO!
Or you know, open up just the files you need to compare if you that badly need to.
Making new beds? or doors? Make a new file of their size and go to town... split it in half then.. done.
It's called learning and adapting, instead of wining and moaping how it's going to be oh so hard in your head, try and fiddle with it like the rest of us are, find what works. I find this much easier to work with.
Photoshop is a pro graphic programm and has all tools for 3d texturing and preview. That is the reason why more and more game designer are using it. But not all nob designer have money to buy a rolls-royce just for making textures for minecraft.
This has to be one of the best reasons why I like the texture update. Another being the fact that all blocks and Items can have animations now without mods.
For those who didn't know either there seems to be a bug with flowing lava/water animations longer than 16 frames.
On the last frame of flowing water/lava in longer than 16 frame animation it will freeze for a second then continue the animation, I think its just some leftover code from pre-13w02a/b.
Yeah, I already had this in a different thread. There exist default water, lava, and lava_flow text files. You'll need to overwrite them in order to have animation lengths of your own choosing.
I have a custom lava animation currently that is 64 frames long and when it plays the 64th frame will freeze up every time.
Here's the txt file if you want to see it
0*3
1*3
2*3
3*3
4*3
5*3
6*3
7*3
8*3
9*3
10*3
11*3
12*3
13*3
14*3
15*3
16*3
17*3
18*3
19*3
20*3
21*3
22*3
23*3
24*3
25*3
26*3
27*3
28*3
29*3
30*3
31*3
32*3
33*3
34*3
35*3
36*3
37*3
38*3
39*3
40*3
41*3
42*3
43*3
44*3
45*3
46*3
47*3
48*3
49*3
50*3
51*3
52*3
53*3
54*3
55*3
56*3
57*3
58*3
59*3
60*3
61*3
62*3
63*3
All my animations are 64 frames and I've not had that issue. What resolution are you working on?
You know gimp is a free alt to photoshop right? It works just about the same. Paint.net is also nice for pixel work. All can do the same preview thing. Really, theres no extra time aside what your skill allows for. I can pop out textures just as good in nrmal paint that I can in photoshop.
You also know, Adobe's giving CS2 out for free hmmm?
http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html
So if you're that hooked on programs, or how hard it is still. Get with this 'big boys' and get yourself photoshop while the offer lasts.