*Please don't use this thread to debate the ethics of using a mob trap. If people like to build mob traps (and a great portion of the community does), then you don't have to partake if you don't want to. I mean this thread as more of discussion of possible work-arounds to the mob movement change so people can build traps that still work well. Thanks*
First, watch this video or you won't know what this thread is about:
I have tested this for myself on creative, and mobs 30+ yards away seem to sit still (except for spinning around in place) like the guy in the video said.
Now, let's imagine a scenario: You build a mob trap with spawning platforms that are surrounding by water canals that herd the mobs to a single location for you to either kill manually or with a mob grinder (something that kills mobs when they run into it, like lava). The problem is, the mobs remain motionless on your platforms and don't fall into the water canals, therefore essentially breaking your trap or at least making it agonizingly slow compared to before the 1.0.0 update.
You may be asking "Why not just build the trap in an area within 30 yards of you so the mobs fall in the canals?" There are two problems with this solution:
1. MUCH lower spawning space and therefore efficiency than if you could extend it beyond 30 yards.
2. Mobs need to be at least 24 blocks away from the player to spawn. This is far more important than reason 1.
Breakdown (also the TL;DR section):
At first glance, 30 yards within the player seem to be viable for monster traps. However, exactly 80% of that space is devoted purely to NOT spawning monsters because monsters have to be 24 blocks away from the player to spawn in the first place. Now you should see the problem.
Solutions:
The only solutions I can think of are pretty impractical for survival, and they both involve a lot of pistons and redstone (and therefore materials like iron and smooth stone). One would be to use sticky pistons and pressure plates to knock mobs off a high place. See the video below for a good example, but with enderman (it can be used for other 2 block high mobs like zombies, too). I know the guy in the video is in survival, but he is also in a place with literally no possible spawns except for where he chooses, like in a clean room. For everything except for enderman, completely lighting up all areas in a massive 3 dimensional area would be needed to achieve this effect, thus the impracticality again.
.
The other idea would be to have spawning spaces that you periodically flood using pistons that block a water source. You could hook this piston up to a timer or do it manually. What do you guys think about solutions to this problem?
i really think this is a pointless complaint. Spawners are so common and you can turn into an item farm, or an XP farm, for zombies, skellies, spiders and blazes.
That leaves creepers and enderman left out.
I personally think those types of farms (making really dark areas to force mobs to spawn)to be rather boring.
i really think this is a pointless complaint. Spawners are so common and you can turn into an item farm, or an XP farm, for zombies, skellies, spiders and blazes.
That leaves creepers and enderman left out.
I personally think those types of farms (making really dark areas to force mobs to spawn)to be rather boring.
How is it a pointless complaint? So you find it more practical to wait for a mob spawner to spawn a SINGLE type of of mob (note that creepers will NEVER spawn from them) for you to harvest the resources of? A mob tower is far different and far superior to a typical mob spawner for harvesting resources. Also, mob spawners are way more few and far between than you let on. Not to mention hard to find.
I personally think those types of farms (making really dark areas to force mobs to spawn)to be rather boring.
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to say "cool story bro" on this one. Like I said (and this should be obvious to anyone who isn't a newbie to minecraft), the mob tower building community is huge, regardless of your personal opinion. I'm talking numbers here.
Nothing is too impractical for survival. And also, trapping up spawners still works real well! Don't expect any love in this thread; those of us who think mob traps are fine seem to be vocally out numbered around here....
It's quite annoying. I enjoy observing a well-built mob grinder in action, and having 150 mobs spinning in place like they're listening to Dead or Alive isn't fun.
Nothing is too impractical for survival. And also, trapping up spawners still works real well! Don't expect any love in this thread; those of us who think mob traps are fine seem to be vocally out numbered around here....
INB4 LOLmygrinderisawoodenswordyoun00b
--Yeah, I started out trying to make a large darkness mob collector but for some odd reason no mobs would spawn in it. Then I went to dungeon farming but that got god awful boring and I felt like I wasn't playing the game for the sake of having fun.
Yes, I'm one of those "LOLmygrinderisawoodenswordyoun00b".
How do I get silk touch easily without killing thousands of mobs? I changed the code. I have reason to, it's not like silk touch is used for anything vital.
Nothing is too impractical for survival. And also, trapping up spawners still works real well! Don't expect any love in this thread; those of us who think mob traps are fine seem to be vocally out numbered around here....
INB4 LOLmygrinderisawoodenswordyoun00b
Nice sig, it fits the message I'm trying to push here well :biggrin.gif:. It's important to have a big "meta game" (although there isn't really one objective to the game for most people) for people who have already built a wooden house :tongue.gif:. Mob traps play a huge role in this meta game.
People have actually made advances in this particular sort of trap that circumvents mobs' inability to move when they are 40 blocks or so away. Sieve traps are one such example that has come up.
Mob traps aren't entirely broken as long as you stay within a reasonable range. I believe the optimal distance between standard mob farms and a player is 24 blocks, so one could actually move fairly far beyond that doing other activities and still have a functioning farm. I plan to build a standard mob farm even with this change; there are plenty of things I can do around my base as my mob farm works.
Unfortunately, such a change is unlikely to be reversed as Jeb did it in an effort to negate performance issues. I hardly think that using mob spawners in lieu of farms is effective as the first commenter suggested. Not only can they not supply Creepers or Endermen, dungeons are so far-flung and spawners are so terribly slow in comparison that it simply isn't practical to build a trap or a farm out of one.
People have actually made advances in this particular sort of trap that circumvents mobs' inability to move when they are 40 blocks or so away. Sieve traps are one such example that has come up.
Mob traps aren't entirely broken as long as you stay within a reasonable range. I believe the optimal distance between standard mob farms and a player is 24 blocks, so one could actually move fairly far beyond that doing other activities and still have a functioning farm. I plan to build a standard mob farm even with this change; there are plenty of things I can do around my base as my mob farm works.
Unfortunately, such a change is unlikely to be reversed as Jeb did it in an effort to negate performance issues. I hardly think that using mob spawners in lieu of farms is effective as the first commenter suggested. Not only can they not supply Creepers or Endermen, dungeons are so far-flung and spawners are so terribly slow in comparison that it simply isn't practical to build a trap or a farm out of one.
Good point, I will inevitably have to adapt to the change (and I have been testing things around in creative mode for the past few days, in fact). I didn't really mean this thread to devolve into a complaint thread or debated about why the 30 yard limit change was introduced, which is why I said this at the top:
*Please don't use this thread to debate the ethics of using a mob trap. If a specific player wants to build a mob trap (and a huge portion of the community LOVES to build mob traps for fun [i.e. - Kiershar]), then why be stingy and say "NO! You are NOT allowed to enjoy the game this way, even though I don't have to build one myself!"). Thanks*
I meant this thread more as something for players to help each other (and me :tongue.gif:) work around the change, not to complain about it. So therefore I thank you for mentioning this so-called "sieve trap", I will look into it =D.
Good point, I will most likely try to adapt to the change. I didn't really mean this thread to devolve into a complaint thread or debated about why the 30 yard limit change was introduced, which is why I said this at the top:
I meant this thread more as something for players to help each other (and me :tongue.gif:) work around the change, not to complain about it. So therefore I thank you for mentioning this so-called "sieve trap", I will look into it =D.
No problem! The only problem with these newer designs is that some traps require a bit of redstone to move stagnant mobs from their resting places (since of course, they wouldn't be moving in the first place). The sieve trap is one of these particular designs, as it does use pistons to "sift" mobs into water canals and the such.
I built Docm's "Iron Lung" design for one. It uses no water or anything. Just pistons. Mobs spawn in spawning pads, every few seconds pistons move the whole floor back and forth and the mobs fall down and die. I made it into an arena where they don't die and fall into a big dark building where I go afk for a while outside, Then I go in and kill all the mobs. lots of fun if I do say so myself.
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Check out my channel for awesome redstone tutorials!
No problem! The only problem with these newer designs is that some traps require a bit of redstone to move stagnant mobs from their resting places (since of course, they wouldn't be moving in the first place). The sieve trap is one of these particular designs, as it does use pistons to "sift" mobs into water canals and the such.
I built Docm's "Iron Lung" design for one. It uses no water or anything. Just pistons. Mobs spawn in spawning pads, every few seconds pistons move the whole floor back and forth and the mobs fall down and die. I made it into an arena where they don't die and fall into a big dark building where I go afk for a while outside, Then I go in and kill all the mobs. lots of fun if I do say so myself.
Yeah good point with the sieve thing, I'm gonna mess around with that a little more. Guess there's no getting around having to use iron and redstone >_>. Moving those pads back and forth takes a lot of pistons but whatever. Thanks for the posts.
Oh this stinks, I was looking forward to building a moby-big mob grinder in my 12w04a world, now it looks like that project is scratched off the list :sad.gif:
Notch has been taking measures against mob traps since at least early Beta. So yeah, you're about a year late on this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Users lack the mental capacity to have intelligent discussion, and mods lack the mental capacity to make intellegent decisions... I give up trying to share my intelligence with the world.
Notch has been taking measures against mob traps since at least early Beta. So yeah, you're about a year late on this.
Yeah I guess there's no surprise there, I was just surprised when more people weren't discussing the change with mobs not moving 30 blocks away so I made this thread.
I don't see the point of a natural spawn mob trap. Waiting for things to spawn is a lot more tedious than just getting out there and killing the mobs yourself.
Why is this important and why was it any different in 1.8?
I was really happy about this, and I'm hoping the new mob AI will make it even more difficult. Mob grinders were way too easy to build prior to 1.8, they're still too easy IMO. Pistons and redstone engineering really don't have enough survival applications, and building something as rewarding as a mob grinder really should be a challenge I think.
I am looking forward to the height change. If they don't change the other spawning rules you should be able setup dark room traps up at the top of the world and not have to light up the caves below.
With few/no other places to spawn the trap should be really efficient if you deal with the no movement issues.
First, watch this video or you won't know what this thread is about:
I have tested this for myself on creative, and mobs 30+ yards away seem to sit still (except for spinning around in place) like the guy in the video said.
Now, let's imagine a scenario: You build a mob trap with spawning platforms that are surrounding by water canals that herd the mobs to a single location for you to either kill manually or with a mob grinder (something that kills mobs when they run into it, like lava). The problem is, the mobs remain motionless on your platforms and don't fall into the water canals, therefore essentially breaking your trap or at least making it agonizingly slow compared to before the 1.0.0 update.
You may be asking "Why not just build the trap in an area within 30 yards of you so the mobs fall in the canals?" There are two problems with this solution:
1. MUCH lower spawning space and therefore efficiency than if you could extend it beyond 30 yards.
2. Mobs need to be at least 24 blocks away from the player to spawn. This is far more important than reason 1.
Breakdown (also the TL;DR section):
At first glance, 30 yards within the player seem to be viable for monster traps. However, exactly 80% of that space is devoted purely to NOT spawning monsters because monsters have to be 24 blocks away from the player to spawn in the first place. Now you should see the problem.
Solutions:
The only solutions I can think of are pretty impractical for survival, and they both involve a lot of pistons and redstone (and therefore materials like iron and smooth stone). One would be to use sticky pistons and pressure plates to knock mobs off a high place. See the video below for a good example, but with enderman (it can be used for other 2 block high mobs like zombies, too). I know the guy in the video is in survival, but he is also in a place with literally no possible spawns except for where he chooses, like in a clean room. For everything except for enderman, completely lighting up all areas in a massive 3 dimensional area would be needed to achieve this effect, thus the impracticality again.
.
The other idea would be to have spawning spaces that you periodically flood using pistons that block a water source. You could hook this piston up to a timer or do it manually. What do you guys think about solutions to this problem?
Edit again: Check out this thread discussing the same issue. Also, if you are feeling alone in support for mob traps, check the poll percentages :smile.gif:. http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/885692-im-tired-of-mobs-freezing-40-blocks-away/
That leaves creepers and enderman left out.
I personally think those types of farms (making really dark areas to force mobs to spawn)to be rather boring.
How is it a pointless complaint? So you find it more practical to wait for a mob spawner to spawn a SINGLE type of of mob (note that creepers will NEVER spawn from them) for you to harvest the resources of? A mob tower is far different and far superior to a typical mob spawner for harvesting resources. Also, mob spawners are way more few and far between than you let on. Not to mention hard to find.
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to say "cool story bro" on this one. Like I said (and this should be obvious to anyone who isn't a newbie to minecraft), the mob tower building community is huge, regardless of your personal opinion. I'm talking numbers here.
Because it's still relevant in 1.1. Sorry if it's not in the perfect section, but it's debatable.
INB4 LOLmygrinderisawoodenswordyoun00b
Yes, I'm one of those "LOLmygrinderisawoodenswordyoun00b".
How do I get silk touch easily without killing thousands of mobs? I changed the code. I have reason to, it's not like silk touch is used for anything vital.
Nice sig, it fits the message I'm trying to push here well :biggrin.gif:. It's important to have a big "meta game" (although there isn't really one objective to the game for most people) for people who have already built a wooden house :tongue.gif:. Mob traps play a huge role in this meta game.
Mob traps aren't entirely broken as long as you stay within a reasonable range. I believe the optimal distance between standard mob farms and a player is 24 blocks, so one could actually move fairly far beyond that doing other activities and still have a functioning farm. I plan to build a standard mob farm even with this change; there are plenty of things I can do around my base as my mob farm works.
Unfortunately, such a change is unlikely to be reversed as Jeb did it in an effort to negate performance issues. I hardly think that using mob spawners in lieu of farms is effective as the first commenter suggested. Not only can they not supply Creepers or Endermen, dungeons are so far-flung and spawners are so terribly slow in comparison that it simply isn't practical to build a trap or a farm out of one.
Good point, I will inevitably have to adapt to the change (and I have been testing things around in creative mode for the past few days, in fact). I didn't really mean this thread to devolve into a complaint thread or debated about why the 30 yard limit change was introduced, which is why I said this at the top:
I meant this thread more as something for players to help each other (and me :tongue.gif:) work around the change, not to complain about it. So therefore I thank you for mentioning this so-called "sieve trap", I will look into it =D.
No problem! The only problem with these newer designs is that some traps require a bit of redstone to move stagnant mobs from their resting places (since of course, they wouldn't be moving in the first place). The sieve trap is one of these particular designs, as it does use pistons to "sift" mobs into water canals and the such.
Yeah good point with the sieve thing, I'm gonna mess around with that a little more. Guess there's no getting around having to use iron and redstone >_>. Moving those pads back and forth takes a lot of pistons but whatever. Thanks for the posts.
Yeah I guess there's no surprise there, I was just surprised when more people weren't discussing the change with mobs not moving 30 blocks away so I made this thread.
Creepers. That is all.
Why is this important and why was it any different in 1.8?
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539
I am looking forward to the height change. If they don't change the other spawning rules you should be able setup dark room traps up at the top of the world and not have to light up the caves below.
With few/no other places to spawn the trap should be really efficient if you deal with the no movement issues.