I think people are expecting a lot more out of mob AI than they're going to get. I seriously doubt we'll be getting much more than some basic pathfinding and maybe skeletons trying to keep their distance. It's really unlikely we're going to see creepers hiding behind trees, enemies fighting as groups or ambushing you.
I liked how armor was, you know, armor. Now it doesn't feel worth the materials.
I'm torn on this point.
Where before Iron Armor was very, very strong on its own; and neigh ridiculous with minor enchants it feels now like the protection I enchant on all pieces is required to "bring it up to par" so to speak.
However: I do favor this model greatly over the "Armor is made of tissue paper, and dissolves in a slightly moist morning mist." variant we had back in oh, 1.7.3? And thus far its been slightly more challenging then the "Psudo-immortality" armor of last patch. But the challenge is more in the "I need to stop between long fights to regenerate, or just avoid being hit" over "Combat is actually more then click-spamming".
Combat is just not a challenge. Wearing a set of Iron Armor(Protection I on two pieces) and wielding a Diamond Sword (Sharpness I) I was able to kill monsters non-stop over the course of three separate nights. I never lost more then three hearts. Endermen have an attack dead-zone; skeletons can be easily juked, zombies have a 'blind spot' now, and creepers are a joke to anyone who keeps a calm demeanor when approaching them, even spiders can't even touch you once you recognize their jump patterns. (Hopefully the mob AI will introduce some changes to rectify this.) Perhaps there needs to just be a flat out 'Combat Update' in the next few patches?
The only thing this change accomplishes at the end of the day: is make the game more difficult for the middle range player. The 'combat guy's know fighting monsters is child's play, the newb will hide in a box when the sun threatens to go down and fill chat with "Anyone near a bed?" so they can get back to work; so the top and bottom of the spectrum are more or less exactly where they were before. However the middle man, the average player, the 'majority' people; who occasionally die even with the psudo-immorality armor are the ones who will be most effected.
TLDR:
I am in favor of this change, but remain suspicious that there is a better solution. However; what that better solution is evades me at this time.
Did it look like I was joking? I didn't view armor before 1.0 as being worth it. It felt better to save it for tools and building supplies instead of wasting it on armor.
This here is an example of the difficulty of balancing this issue. Our server has a guy just like this who never even uses armor because it "feels like a waste of materials". This is the example of a 'combat guy', the top spectrum. You can make armor stop .1% damage and combat would still be to easy for them.
You must do almost no mining or cave exploring to not easily have enough iron for a set of armor. It really is not that hard to get.
I don't think (s)he said anything about the difficulty of acquisition. It was more like "it's not worth the matirials to makes something that won't protect you".
fyi, I'm not in the argument. I play my way and don't care what other people praise and bemoan. Just pointing out where I thought guy was coming from.
This here is an example of the difficulty of balancing this issue. Our server has a guy just like this who never even uses armor because it "feels like a waste of materials". This is the example of a 'combat guy', the top spectrum. You can make armor stop .1% damage and combat would still be to easy for them.
combat is easy. Aside from getting mobbed, there's nothing difficult. It's literally jump and swing on the way down for kritz.
LMAO Iron was the most common in Alpha. Nice try dude but you don't know your facts.
****ing Please, it took me FOREVER to find a lot of iron. That world that I played in, was from the first version of alpha all the way up to beta 1.7. So it did become easier as I went, but it was difficult as hell at first
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
combat is easy. Aside from getting mobbed, there's nothing difficult. It's literally jump and swing on the way down for kritz.
Precisely!
And most of the monsters have a dead-zone now where they can't retaliate from.
-Zombies seem to be unable to hit me if I jump prior to engagement and target their shoulder area. [Make sure the knock-back of the hit keeps you out of their range. Or you take a hit when you land again]
-Endermen can't attack down a 1-block height difference if you attack their legs. [Or in general, attacking their legs reduces their teleport frequency]
-Creepers seem to explode randomly less often; be more then 5 blocks away or lose line of sight if you can't kill it outright.
-Skeleton arrows seem to have trouble tracking the player when you diagonally-jump on approaching them.
-Spiders will not get their 'free-hit' from pouncing if you attack them from a 1-block lower height (Server Latency - yellow or better)
Which is why I would be most pleased to see a combat update patch, even if you are 'mobbed' throwing down a line of blocks to force the monsters to need to stop forward movement and jump to reach you negates the server-latency 'free hits' as well. (Try it with a group of zombie pigmen)
And most of the monsters have a dead-zone now where they can't retaliate from.
-Zombies seem to be unable to hit me if I jump prior to engagement and target their shoulder area. [Make sure the knock-back of the hit keeps you out of their range. Or you take a hit when you land again]
-Endermen can't attack down a 1-block height difference if you attack their legs. [Or in general, attacking their legs reduces their teleport frequency]
-Creepers seem to explode randomly less often; be more then 5 blocks away or lose line of sight if you can't kill it outright.
-Skeleton arrows seem to have trouble tracking the player when you diagonally-jump on approaching them.
-Spiders will not get their 'free-hit' from pouncing if you attack them from a 1-block lower height (Server Latency - yellow or better)
Which is why I would be most pleased to see a combat update patch, even if you are 'mobbed' throwing down a line of blocks to force the monsters to need to stop forward movement and jump to reach you negates the server-latency 'free hits' as well. (Try it with a group of zombie pigmen)
I noticed the big changes to the bow made the skeleton always miss me now :[
We need to up there Archery skill to Master level.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
The game isn't fun if you have to limit the items you use just to make the game harder. You should be able to stretch yourself and use all the resources the game gives you without feeling like you are cheating. The only exception to this could be random specific challenges issued on this forum, or those adventure maps or w/e...
The ONLY thing you should be changing is the difficulty level, because that's what it's in the game for.
Armor | Max Player Speed | Armor Durability (Based on chest-plate)
Leather | 95% | 82
Gold | 50% | 114.8
Chainmail | 85% | 166.46
Iron Plate | 65% | 249.69
Diamond | 80% | 536.8335
Max damage reduction (DR) with full armor. As in, damage taken is reduced by such %
Easy | 90% DR
Normal | 70% DR
Hard | 50% DR
Very Hard | 40% DR
Hardcore | 30% DR
That is a potential solution; although I can not readily jump on board to anything that effects movement speed. Its a personal pet-peeve of mine. (Or maybe my speed-potion addiction *nervous scratch*.)
Also would the mitigation need to scale down in conjunction difficulty? Mob damage already scales up; and both together might be to much. Might need a mod to work out a test environment; and find a happy middle.
That is a potential solution; although I can not readily jump on board to anything that effects movement speed. Its a personal pet-peeve of mine. (Or maybe my speed-potion addiction *nervous scratch*.)
Also would the mitigation need to scale down in conjunction difficulty? Mob damage already scales up; and both together might be to much. Might need a mod to work out a test environment; and find a happy middle.
I think that is an addiction. Steve can book it pretty fast while sprinting.
Hm... How about, as difficulty goes up, the weight of armor gets closer to being normal heavy.
So if an admin wants his server to have armor weight be a factor for pvp, it can put it on hard or very hard.
Very hard was a suggestion I made a long time ago.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Some of the people in here obviously don't understand the power-gamer mentality.
Anyways, so far I think I'm very happy with this armor update.
Super-old armor melted away so freakin' fast there was absolutely no point in using it. On top of this, full leather armor was exactly the same as full iron or full diamond before durability started to decrease. How stupid is that!??
1.0 armor was so overpowered it's ridiculous. Full iron and mobs, for all practical purposes, no longer exist. Diamond and you literally do not take damage! Totally silly.
This armor seems pretty spot-on from my early late-night testing. Didn't see it in the patch notes and got myself wasted while fixing my Blaze spawner a few times, ROFL. Was like, "WTF, did my fire pot run out?" No...mobs just kicked my ass and I am getting soft because of how easy-mode armor was in 1.0 (playing on SMP Normal right now).
Some of the people in here obviously don't understand the power-gamer mentality.
Anyways, so far I think I'm very happy with this armor update.
Super-old armor melted away so freakin' fast there was absolutely no point in using it. On top of this, full leather armor was exactly the same as full iron or full diamond before durability started to decrease. How stupid is that!??
1.0 armor was so overpowered it's ridiculous. Full iron and mobs, for all practical purposes, no longer exist. Diamond and you literally do not take damage! Totally silly.
This armor seems pretty spot-on from my early late-night testing. Didn't see it in the patch notes and got myself wasted while fixing my Blaze spawner a few times, ROFL. Was like, "WTF, did my fire pot run out?" No...mobs just kicked my ass and I am getting soft because of how easy-mode armor was in 1.0 (playing on SMP Normal right now).
Right on man, I do wish we had some of the older armor system stuff though.
It was nice for armor to lose protection as it broke down. It was annoying to have to waste half durability armor to get full protection.
BUT now it is ok! Since we can repair!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Right on man, I do wish we had some of the older armor system stuff though.
It was nice for armor to lose protection as it broke down. It was annoying to have to waste half durability armor to get full protection.
BUT now it is ok! Since we can repair!
Yea that's a good point, the repairing helps the old system out.
Although wouldn't you be stuck with tons of like 75% armor that you can't craft together because it'll be wasted, but that you don't want to wear because of the reduce protection?
Yea that's a good point, the repairing helps the old system out.
Although wouldn't you be stuck with tons of like 75% armor that you can't craft together because it'll be wasted, but that you don't want to wear because of the reduce protection?
Well we just need to tweak the amount of protection reduction then. :biggrin.gif:
So when they are damaged they don't lose protection as fast.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Yea, like make armor.
I don't understand your logic, but to each his own.
I'm torn on this point.
Where before Iron Armor was very, very strong on its own; and neigh ridiculous with minor enchants it feels now like the protection I enchant on all pieces is required to "bring it up to par" so to speak.
However: I do favor this model greatly over the "Armor is made of tissue paper, and dissolves in a slightly moist morning mist." variant we had back in oh, 1.7.3? And thus far its been slightly more challenging then the "Psudo-immortality" armor of last patch. But the challenge is more in the "I need to stop between long fights to regenerate, or just avoid being hit" over "Combat is actually more then click-spamming".
Combat is just not a challenge. Wearing a set of Iron Armor(Protection I on two pieces) and wielding a Diamond Sword (Sharpness I) I was able to kill monsters non-stop over the course of three separate nights. I never lost more then three hearts. Endermen have an attack dead-zone; skeletons can be easily juked, zombies have a 'blind spot' now, and creepers are a joke to anyone who keeps a calm demeanor when approaching them, even spiders can't even touch you once you recognize their jump patterns. (Hopefully the mob AI will introduce some changes to rectify this.) Perhaps there needs to just be a flat out 'Combat Update' in the next few patches?
The only thing this change accomplishes at the end of the day: is make the game more difficult for the middle range player. The 'combat guy's know fighting monsters is child's play, the newb will hide in a box when the sun threatens to go down and fill chat with "Anyone near a bed?" so they can get back to work; so the top and bottom of the spectrum are more or less exactly where they were before. However the middle man, the average player, the 'majority' people; who occasionally die even with the psudo-immorality armor are the ones who will be most effected.
TLDR:
I am in favor of this change, but remain suspicious that there is a better solution. However; what that better solution is evades me at this time.
-EDIT-
This here is an example of the difficulty of balancing this issue. Our server has a guy just like this who never even uses armor because it "feels like a waste of materials". This is the example of a 'combat guy', the top spectrum. You can make armor stop .1% damage and combat would still be to easy for them.
I don't think (s)he said anything about the difficulty of acquisition. It was more like "it's not worth the matirials to makes something that won't protect you".
fyi, I'm not in the argument. I play my way and don't care what other people praise and bemoan. Just pointing out where I thought guy was coming from.
combat is easy. Aside from getting mobbed, there's nothing difficult. It's literally jump and swing on the way down for kritz.
****ing Please, it took me FOREVER to find a lot of iron. That world that I played in, was from the first version of alpha all the way up to beta 1.7. So it did become easier as I went, but it was difficult as hell at first
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Max damage reduction (DR) with full armor. As in, damage taken is reduced by such %
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Precisely!
And most of the monsters have a dead-zone now where they can't retaliate from.
-Zombies seem to be unable to hit me if I jump prior to engagement and target their shoulder area. [Make sure the knock-back of the hit keeps you out of their range. Or you take a hit when you land again]
-Endermen can't attack down a 1-block height difference if you attack their legs. [Or in general, attacking their legs reduces their teleport frequency]
-Creepers seem to explode randomly less often; be more then 5 blocks away or lose line of sight if you can't kill it outright.
-Skeleton arrows seem to have trouble tracking the player when you diagonally-jump on approaching them.
-Spiders will not get their 'free-hit' from pouncing if you attack them from a 1-block lower height (Server Latency - yellow or better)
Which is why I would be most pleased to see a combat update patch, even if you are 'mobbed' throwing down a line of blocks to force the monsters to need to stop forward movement and jump to reach you negates the server-latency 'free hits' as well. (Try it with a group of zombie pigmen)
I noticed the big changes to the bow made the skeleton always miss me now :[
We need to up there Archery skill to Master level.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
The game isn't fun if you have to limit the items you use just to make the game harder. You should be able to stretch yourself and use all the resources the game gives you without feeling like you are cheating. The only exception to this could be random specific challenges issued on this forum, or those adventure maps or w/e...
The ONLY thing you should be changing is the difficulty level, because that's what it's in the game for.
That is a potential solution; although I can not readily jump on board to anything that effects movement speed. Its a personal pet-peeve of mine. (Or maybe my speed-potion addiction *nervous scratch*.)
Also would the mitigation need to scale down in conjunction difficulty? Mob damage already scales up; and both together might be to much. Might need a mod to work out a test environment; and find a happy middle.
I think that is an addiction. Steve can book it pretty fast while sprinting.
Hm... How about, as difficulty goes up, the weight of armor gets closer to being normal heavy.
So if an admin wants his server to have armor weight be a factor for pvp, it can put it on hard or very hard.
Very hard was a suggestion I made a long time ago.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Anyways, so far I think I'm very happy with this armor update.
Super-old armor melted away so freakin' fast there was absolutely no point in using it. On top of this, full leather armor was exactly the same as full iron or full diamond before durability started to decrease. How stupid is that!??
1.0 armor was so overpowered it's ridiculous. Full iron and mobs, for all practical purposes, no longer exist. Diamond and you literally do not take damage! Totally silly.
This armor seems pretty spot-on from my early late-night testing. Didn't see it in the patch notes and got myself wasted while fixing my Blaze spawner a few times, ROFL. Was like, "WTF, did my fire pot run out?" No...mobs just kicked my ass and I am getting soft because of how easy-mode armor was in 1.0 (playing on SMP Normal right now).
Right on man, I do wish we had some of the older armor system stuff though.
It was nice for armor to lose protection as it broke down. It was annoying to have to waste half durability armor to get full protection.
BUT now it is ok! Since we can repair!
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Yea that's a good point, the repairing helps the old system out.
Although wouldn't you be stuck with tons of like 75% armor that you can't craft together because it'll be wasted, but that you don't want to wear because of the reduce protection?
Well we just need to tweak the amount of protection reduction then. :biggrin.gif:
So when they are damaged they don't lose protection as fast.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Well that dude who posted 2nd to last cleared it up! I was told by some players you could get it after like 5ish to 10ish bows.
The guy who replied told me it was around 80. In that case, it is balanced, since it's extremely hard to get. I was SO flipping relieved.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2