Get out. I've been playing this game since Beta 1.2, and the game keeps getting better, aside maybe for some 1.8 bland biome hiccups.
No it's not. "The whole POINT of Minecraft is the multiplayer component." I don't even know why single player exists, aside maybe for testing purposes in creative mode. I can't even comprehend why some people play SSP and complain about SSP specific issues.
The whole POINT in minecraft's whatever the **** you want, Don't tell other people what the point is unless you want to incite a flame war and get this thread locked.
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"Only a few find the way, Some don't recognize it when they do. Some don't ever want to..." ~Cheshire cat.
I guess it's worth enchanting swords but not bows, but it just drives me nuts that it takes so long that I feel like I'm killing solely to re-enchant my weapons.
I know, right?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Users lack the mental capacity to have intelligent discussion, and mods lack the mental capacity to make intellegent decisions... I give up trying to share my intelligence with the world.
The whole POINT in minecraft's whatever the **** you want, Don't tell other people what the point is unless you want to incite a flame war and get this thread locked.
I think in terms of how they balance the game, smp will always be balanced. One can say, "Diamond is hard to find, that guy has diamond set and he kills everyone." I can say, "You didn't work for a diamond set, you deserve to die."
SMP will always be balanced because everyone can obtain the same things in MC. MC should only be balanced on SSP for this reason.
The whole POINT in minecraft's whatever the **** you want, Don't tell other people what the point is unless you want to incite a flame war and get this thread locked.
He's just basically saying the main component of why Minecraft has over 4 million sales is because of the multiplayer. I highly doubt Minecraft would have achieved 4 million sales if it didn't include a multiplayer. I know I wouldn't have bothered.
@threadtopic
If you like reading, then you'll prolly like this. I know I spelt probably wrong, it's just how I say it.
Yes, the game has been going downhill until Jeb took over. He seems to be kind of jumping all over the place, but at least we got some progress with the game. Minor ones, anyway... since most of it are just fixes.
If you want a much more difficult game, you're going to have to use mods. Regular Minecraft just can't compete with the amount of mods released for the game anymore. It ain't alpha or beta where there were barely any mods to start off with in the first place. People want more because they see what the mods can provide.
Everyone has to think realistically about it, though. There's no way Jeb is going to compete with mods that take full advantage and dedication to their project. Mo' Creatures is an example that adds a lot more monsters into the game. Unfortunately, it's only a single player mod. Think about that for a second. It takes about 2 months for Mojang to release 1 new monster (which happened to be a cat). It would probably take about a year or two just to add as much as Mo' Creatures does (which has over a dozen monsters). There's also a tornado mod somewhere, but I forgot where that went which seems pretty complicated and a lot more weather mods around. The Spoutcraft client can make the worlds twice as big, so mining and exploring is vast. Again, these are only for single player for the moment.
See a pattern here? None of this is for multiplayer which is the main core of Minecraft.
My point being: even if Jeb wanted to add more creatures, items, or make the worlds twice as big.... it would probably take years to implement. It took Jeb a few months just to release 1 jungle biome into the game. Not that I'm complaining, at least he's trying to do something.
In the end, who seriously is going to wait two or three years for a game to be up to par with mods? That's exactly why we need the modding API ASAP. I know none of these mod makers are going to wait that long, most of the good ones already quit and went on with other games. The community is slowly dying... unless you consider a bunch of 13 year olds on here a good community. Might as well join the Pokemon forums.
There's really no point in making threads like these or complaining. I mean, I definately think the game sucks without mods or the multiplayer but thinking realistically about it, it's impossible for Jeb to implement even 1% of these mods in a couple months.
I think it's very important to bring this back up again:
"Difficulty levels will probably vary from “challenging” to “impossible”, since I want the game to be difficult. If it’s not fun to always be challenged, I’ll add easier difficulties." http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival
People play the game.
People find it too difficult.
People ***** on forums that it is too difficult.
Mojang listens.
Game is made easier.
Those who loved it being 'challenging' but don't ***** on forums lose out.
They did make easier difficulties but seemed to nerf all of them at once.
1.) Caves were less common, meaning you dug your own mines MORE often. It's not minecraft now, it's Cave Explorer Craft. If caves were super rare, you'd dig your own mines, which makes sense, because it is "mine" craft. When is the last time you dug your own mine? Chances are you didn't, or if you are like me, very few.
Most minecraft players dig their own mines. Going in to caves is dangerous and sometimes a bit scary. And mining ends you up with cobblestone, so you can get that along with other ores. Caves are not too common, no.
Everything else you said is true, but this is just ********.
How Minecraft has became to Easy, and the reasons for it. (Compared to Alpha 1.26)
1.) Caves were less common, meaning you dug your own mines MORE often. It's not minecraft now, it's Cave Explorer Craft. If caves were super rare, you'd dig your own mines, which makes sense, because it is "mine" craft. When is the last time you dug your own mine? Chances are you didn't, or if you are like me, very few. I agree with this one. Too many caves. I like building my own mines.
2.) Iron was NOT plentiful. You had to search and mine around for it, not just walk through a cave and come out with 64 iron. This made you treat it with respect, you didn't just make tons of iron tools all willy nilly like. This also made leather armor actually useful, since iron was hard to come by. Iron isn't as rare as it used to be. I can get around 2 stacks of iron in a 1 hour mining trip. But I don't mind. Minecraft is meant to be something you can sit down and play and progress. Making everything harder to find would only make it more frustrating.
3.) Armor damage reduction was based on remaining durability, meaning as your armor took damage and lost durability, it protected you less, requiring more materials to make fresh armor more often, Now a set of iron will last you for several days to weeks. And it doesn't get weaker as it loses durability. Jeb already nerfed armor once. It is fine, I run through a set of iron armor in a few hours.
4.) Mobs were in greater numbers, and density, if you think a zombie is weak, your right. But 3 zombies, 2 skeletons and a creeper, in a small cave, that's no so easy anymore.If you want harder mobs, go play the snapshot releases.
5.) Food wasn't stack-able, now it is and you can auto heal, actually I like the food bar feature because it makes lots of food a necessity. But I will not say it makes it harder, it does make it easier. Food should NOT be stack-able.The most frustrating thing in minecraft before 1.8 was food. You always wasted so much space on food that I needed for other things. And now that you need more food more often makes having it stackable make sense.
Differences from Beta
1.) Beds had to be inside a secure house, you couldn't just stick one outside. Now you can just kill the mobs around, and sleep outside, ridiculous. It was once about building a shelter and surviving, but now you can sleep out side? Ruins the flow and feel of the game. Makes the "threat" from the outside world feel like a joke.Ever heard of camping? I like the new beds. If I get stuck outside at night somewhere, I can dig a hole and sleep.
2.) It used to be the mine-craft thing, that you'd walk outside and get blown up by a creeper. So we made defenses against it. Now it's pointless, because that never happens but very rarely now.Again, go play the new snapshot. Smart creepers.
3.) Certain blocks took longer to mine, Obsidian, Redstone ore, Bricks, Stone Bricks, this made them "feel" more durable. Now everything mines a bit faster, which makes the game go along too quickly.HaI GUUIEZ THIS DIAMOND DONT TAKE LONG TO MINE MAYBE ITS WEEK1@!!@!??? Minecraft != real life.
My alpha world, that I still have. If I travel back to my first home and walk around, there were like zero caves near by. I dug my first mine in the back of my small home, slowly but surely till I found a cave, explored it, and began to mine more on my own.
ANYWAY!
What was the first thing you liked about the game? When I first played, it was "whoa you can build stuff? Sweet!"
When night time came along... it was "Holy **** what is that!"
I feared mobs and the darkness up until 1.8. That's when it all started going down hill and becoming easy.
Come on people, the creeper, we used to fear the green dude! Walk outside, BOOM. Now? Mobs are considered a joke, "oh look some mobs, kill em"
The game used to be dangerous as hell, armor was weaker and grew weaker as it took damage, it was unforgiving. But that key fact is what made the game feel good. It felt good to have a gold fireplace, since it was extremely difficult to find gold and to make it out alive.
What exactly made mobs easy in 1.8? Please tell me, because I died a lot at night in 1.8. As well in all of the other versions...
I'm currently playing alpha 1.26 to discover any more differences I may Not remember.
So yeah, minecraft isn't as good as it used to be, all those threads most of you hate.
They are right.
There is no reason for the game not to be very difficult. Notch originally wanted the game to be difficult.
Which is very important for a game like minecraft, where you work and survive to get materials.
Minecraft has always been easy, and I agree with the addition of a more difficult mode.
Well, your health didn't regen, you didn't have criticals, you couldn't sprint, all that jazz.
The main difference was the fact that skeletons used to shoot twice as often and would maim you even in full iron if you tried to kill them with a sword.
@jordan: Armor was not nerfed, it was simply fixed. Defense and enchant were applied 2x instead of once.
I think it's very important to bring this back up again:
"Difficulty levels will probably vary from “challenging” to “impossible”, since I want the game to be difficult. If it’s not fun to always be challenged, I’ll add easier difficulties." http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival
People play the game.
People find it too difficult.
People ***** on forums that it is too difficult.
Mojang listens.
Game is made easier.
Those who loved it being 'challenging' but don't ***** on forums lose out.
They did make easier difficulties but seemed to nerf all of them at once.
Kyo, you are the man. You know that?
We need to ask jeb to expand the difficulty opinions, there's no reason Minecraft cannot cater to casual games, to hardcore games.
New difficulties, "Very Hard" "Impossible"
They should include the AI of mobs becoming better as finding you, along with armor being nerfed, and the food bar draining faster. Stuff like that, it will not effect players on normal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Well, your health didn't regen, you didn't have criticals, you couldn't sprint, all that jazz.
The main difference was the fact that skeletons used to shoot twice as often and would maim you even in full iron if you tried to kill them with a sword.
@jordan: Armor was not nerfed, it was simply fixed. Defense and enchant were applied 2x instead of once.
I remember someone made the argument that the regenerating health could also prove to be a disadvantage. If you're in a fight, you can't just shove an entire chicken down your throat and instantly be healed. What the hunger system has done is made the moments after a fight more convenient, but the fight itself more dangerous. I think things like sprinting and critical are just a natural progression of the game.
That said, as I said, Minecraft has always been easy. I think I've only ever crafted two sets of iron armor; the first time was just to try the stuff out, and another time was just because I could as I had tons of iron stockpiled. It seems Jeb is aware of this though, and we are getting better AI with each snapshot. That, combined with a more balanced difficulty chart (difficulty affects damage, regeneration, and mob amount) would provide a much better experience for those unsatisfied with the difficulty as is.
We just need Jeb to add "Very Hard" and "Impossible" difficulties, it wouldn't affect those of you who say the game is fine the way it is, but for those of us who want a challenge, there we go!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
We just need Jeb to add "Very Hard" and "Impossible" difficulties, it wouldn't affect those of you who say the game is fine the way it is, but for those of us who want a challenge, there we go!
yeah, I agree.
I like the way the game is but that's because I'm more into the building aspects. (I prefer playing on survival because it adds something extra though)
with that said, I'd like to see a really challenging mode that actually calls for you to survive. I mean as of now, if you just build a few walls around you then you're pretty much safe.
I'd like to see a difficulty mode where monsters would actually break into your house/ shelters and be really aggressive. Maybe sometimes call for you to actually run out of your current shelter just to get away from them, while they still chase after you.
yeah, I agree.
I like the way the game is but that's because I'm more into the building aspects. (I prefer playing on survival because it adds something extra though)
with that said, I'd like to see a really challenging mode that actually calls for you to survive. I mean as of now, if you just build a few walls around you then you're pretty much safe.
I'd like to see a difficulty mode where monsters would actually break into your house/ shelters and be really aggressive. Maybe sometimes call for you to actually run out of your current shelter just to get away from them, while they still chase after you.
That sounds like "Impossible" Difficulty to me, the game should show us no mercy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
The problem with Minecraft as I see it, is that it's a game that starts out hard, but gets easier and easier as it progresses. With that I mean finding better and better materials for tools and weapons, better armor, then get enchanting, and so on.
I can understand after 500 hours of play, if you have BECOME a diamond and can kick ass like no ones business. But that's why we need to revise everything a bit, and add "Very Hard" and "Impossible"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
We just need Jeb to add "Very Hard" and "Impossible" difficulties, it wouldn't affect those of you who say the game is fine the way it is, but for those of us who want a challenge, there we go!
And we've come full circle from a weeks worth of discussion.
A switch for harder difficulty might appease a few people in the short run; but the game itself will benefit much much more in the long run if we ask for the infinitely more difficult to produce: Depth, and perhaps; a different kind of difficulty.
Are you familiar with the term, "Artificial Difficulty"?
The quickest example that comes to mind is Mario Kart. Where in no matter how well one actually plays, or how many shortcuts you take; the other racers cheat their way up to your bumper at all times. Starcraft I is another example of this: any AI opponent got a slightly reduced cost to all units & structures on top of a 33% increased build speed.
I am not going to be able to write up the most accurate or compelling point to stand on for this subject, on that note I could have sworn Extra Credits did a video on this topic... of which I can not locate.
In its stead: I offer the less appealing Jimquisition blurb, which touches the subject in his own way. (content starts at the 0:45 mark) Jimquision Video
In light of this I'd like to see another poll.
Would you prefer (as an upscale of difficulty),
A. -A mode that causes all mobs to do more damage, maybe even ignore some armor.
-Less caves / ores / 'better' health system so you have less and dying means more.
B. -Improvements to the base system such as better AI, smarter spawn rules, better resource node distribution (spread v quantity).
-Some type of additional achievement system? Or reward-based challenge completion score.
And we've come full circle from a weeks worth of discussion.
-snip-
Almost exactly what I was trying to get across. Instead of tossing on extra difficulty layers in an attempt to 'fix' how easy the game is, the best solution it to balance and improve what's already there.
The whole POINT in minecraft's whatever the **** you want, Don't tell other people what the point is unless you want to incite a flame war and get this thread locked.
I know, right?
SMP will always be balanced because everyone can obtain the same things in MC. MC should only be balanced on SSP for this reason.
He's just basically saying the main component of why Minecraft has over 4 million sales is because of the multiplayer. I highly doubt Minecraft would have achieved 4 million sales if it didn't include a multiplayer. I know I wouldn't have bothered.
@threadtopic
If you like reading, then you'll prolly like this. I know I spelt probably wrong, it's just how I say it.
Yes, the game has been going downhill until Jeb took over. He seems to be kind of jumping all over the place, but at least we got some progress with the game. Minor ones, anyway... since most of it are just fixes.
If you want a much more difficult game, you're going to have to use mods. Regular Minecraft just can't compete with the amount of mods released for the game anymore. It ain't alpha or beta where there were barely any mods to start off with in the first place. People want more because they see what the mods can provide.
Everyone has to think realistically about it, though. There's no way Jeb is going to compete with mods that take full advantage and dedication to their project. Mo' Creatures is an example that adds a lot more monsters into the game. Unfortunately, it's only a single player mod. Think about that for a second. It takes about 2 months for Mojang to release 1 new monster (which happened to be a cat). It would probably take about a year or two just to add as much as Mo' Creatures does (which has over a dozen monsters). There's also a tornado mod somewhere, but I forgot where that went which seems pretty complicated and a lot more weather mods around. The Spoutcraft client can make the worlds twice as big, so mining and exploring is vast. Again, these are only for single player for the moment.
See a pattern here? None of this is for multiplayer which is the main core of Minecraft.
My point being: even if Jeb wanted to add more creatures, items, or make the worlds twice as big.... it would probably take years to implement. It took Jeb a few months just to release 1 jungle biome into the game. Not that I'm complaining, at least he's trying to do something.
In the end, who seriously is going to wait two or three years for a game to be up to par with mods? That's exactly why we need the modding API ASAP. I know none of these mod makers are going to wait that long, most of the good ones already quit and went on with other games. The community is slowly dying... unless you consider a bunch of 13 year olds on here a good community. Might as well join the Pokemon forums.
There's really no point in making threads like these or complaining. I mean, I definately think the game sucks without mods or the multiplayer but thinking realistically about it, it's impossible for Jeb to implement even 1% of these mods in a couple months.
"Difficulty levels will probably vary from “challenging” to “impossible”, since I want the game to be difficult. If it’s not fun to always be challenged, I’ll add easier difficulties."
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival
People play the game.
People find it too difficult.
People ***** on forums that it is too difficult.
Mojang listens.
Game is made easier.
Those who loved it being 'challenging' but don't ***** on forums lose out.
They did make easier difficulties but seemed to nerf all of them at once.
Most minecraft players dig their own mines. Going in to caves is dangerous and sometimes a bit scary. And mining ends you up with cobblestone, so you can get that along with other ores. Caves are not too common, no.
Everything else you said is true, but this is just ********.
I have never used mods.
Those are my thoughts.
The main difference was the fact that skeletons used to shoot twice as often and would maim you even in full iron if you tried to kill them with a sword.
@jordan: Armor was not nerfed, it was simply fixed. Defense and enchant were applied 2x instead of once.
Kyo, you are the man. You know that?
We need to ask jeb to expand the difficulty opinions, there's no reason Minecraft cannot cater to casual games, to hardcore games.
New difficulties, "Very Hard" "Impossible"
They should include the AI of mobs becoming better as finding you, along with armor being nerfed, and the food bar draining faster. Stuff like that, it will not effect players on normal.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I remember someone made the argument that the regenerating health could also prove to be a disadvantage. If you're in a fight, you can't just shove an entire chicken down your throat and instantly be healed. What the hunger system has done is made the moments after a fight more convenient, but the fight itself more dangerous. I think things like sprinting and critical are just a natural progression of the game.
That said, as I said, Minecraft has always been easy. I think I've only ever crafted two sets of iron armor; the first time was just to try the stuff out, and another time was just because I could as I had tons of iron stockpiled. It seems Jeb is aware of this though, and we are getting better AI with each snapshot. That, combined with a more balanced difficulty chart (difficulty affects damage, regeneration, and mob amount) would provide a much better experience for those unsatisfied with the difficulty as is.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
yeah, I agree.
I like the way the game is but that's because I'm more into the building aspects. (I prefer playing on survival because it adds something extra though)
with that said, I'd like to see a really challenging mode that actually calls for you to survive. I mean as of now, if you just build a few walls around you then you're pretty much safe.
I'd like to see a difficulty mode where monsters would actually break into your house/ shelters and be really aggressive. Maybe sometimes call for you to actually run out of your current shelter just to get away from them, while they still chase after you.
That sounds like "Impossible" Difficulty to me, the game should show us no mercy.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
*cough*Difficulty scaling.*cough*
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
And we've come full circle from a weeks worth of discussion.
A switch for harder difficulty might appease a few people in the short run; but the game itself will benefit much much more in the long run if we ask for the infinitely more difficult to produce: Depth, and perhaps; a different kind of difficulty.
Are you familiar with the term, "Artificial Difficulty"?
The quickest example that comes to mind is Mario Kart. Where in no matter how well one actually plays, or how many shortcuts you take; the other racers cheat their way up to your bumper at all times. Starcraft I is another example of this: any AI opponent got a slightly reduced cost to all units & structures on top of a 33% increased build speed.
I am not going to be able to write up the most accurate or compelling point to stand on for this subject, on that note I could have sworn Extra Credits did a video on this topic... of which I can not locate.
In its stead: I offer the less appealing Jimquisition blurb, which touches the subject in his own way. (content starts at the 0:45 mark)
Jimquision Video
In light of this I'd like to see another poll.
Would you prefer (as an upscale of difficulty),
A. -A mode that causes all mobs to do more damage, maybe even ignore some armor.
-Less caves / ores / 'better' health system so you have less and dying means more.
B. -Improvements to the base system such as better AI, smarter spawn rules, better resource node distribution (spread v quantity).
-Some type of additional achievement system? Or reward-based challenge completion score.
Almost exactly what I was trying to get across. Instead of tossing on extra difficulty layers in an attempt to 'fix' how easy the game is, the best solution it to balance and improve what's already there.