How would you programmatically define "inside"? What if your house doesn't have a door, but an opening instead? Is that outside or inside? If you're in a cave with an opening to the outside, is that inside or outside? What about having a huge room with a skylight?
99 % of my time in Minecraft is spent on gathering, producing and using resources for one or more building projects. The only difficulty implied is the size of my projects and complexity related to more technical aspects like mob behaviour and redstone logic.
I'm not sure where Mojang want to go with Minecraft in terms of the survival aspect. I personally think the term is wasted on the current version of Minecraft and only cause confusion. Survival currently just means you need to gather and produce the resources you need. It's definetly not related to actual survival.
I don't think I would enjoy a survival version of Minecraft very much. I like being forced to manage resources, but I don't like the idea of being forced to spend a significant amount of my time finding food or making defences against mobs.
99 % of my time in Minecraft is spent on gathering, producing and using resources for one or more building projects. The only difficulty implied is the size of my projects and complexity related to more technical aspects like mob behaviour and redstone logic.
I'm not sure where Mojang want to go with Minecraft in terms of the survival aspect. I personally think the term is wasted on the current version of Minecraft and only cause confusion. Survival currently just means you need to gather and produce the resources you need. It's definetly not related to actual survival.
I don't think I would enjoy a survival version of Minecraft very much. I like being forced to manage resources, but I don't like the idea of being forced to spend a significant amount of my time finding food or making defences against mobs.
You post depresses me greatly. The game needs to be harder, and then you'd play on easy. That was the point back in the day
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
The amount of caves being too high, iron being too easy to find. Yeah those things
There is absolutely no way to categorize those with anything to do with difficulty.
Amount of caves too high? So what? It makes the maps have more character and more opportunities to meet monsters underground.
Iron is more prolific? Oh no! You have to spend less time chopping up stone! That isn't the game being easier, it's the game having less of a time sink.
Still waiting for a valid answer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fighting ignorance and false information one post at a time.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
Also, Minecraft hasn't gotten easier at all, it was stupidly easy to begin with. Heck, with mob AI improvements coming out I'd say the game is getting harder than it used to be.
I agree with this particular point. This game has never been truly hard, ever. Resources were scarcer, health was different; but it has never actually been 'hard'. Sure armor decayed quickly and eventually any armor, regardless of material, became garbage at a point; but in truth you never needed armor at all. Have one or two emergency pork-chops on the bar for instant half health recovery.
To excerpt from above: 3 zombies, 2 skeletons, and a creeper?
Machine-gun arrows to the creeper; its dead. (Remember the no drawing the arrows back days?) Then spam click while moving slightly to the right; the zombies can't 'turn' fast enough to hit you; and old skeleton's target tracking wasn't good enough to hit you. Ever.
At least now I have to manage hunger; I lose some every time I hit a mob, which is a darn sight more difficult for players that never actually get hit because the mobs are pitiful.
Mob AI improvements are the 'right' (in my opinion) way of making the game more challenging. That is what reminds me of older Minecraft; play smarter. Be creative in your approaches / resource management. Adapt and invent ways of counteracting hostile elements of the environment.
There are of course, and always have been; easy / efficient methods, and tricky / fancy ways of doing things.
As an example, you need to survive the night:
-Dig a 1x3 hole, sit in it; plug it up. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Build yourself into a 1x2 box, leave the top opened. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Dig into the side of a hill, make a temporary living hole. You have something tangible leftover, and look; its probably eaten up half the night already. Walk away for 2-3 minutes.
-Build a small outpost-style 'home' to hide in. If you decor this structure in any way; you now have a mining house, an outpost, or just another village home to build on to later. And look at that; the suns probably close to coming up.
Now; all of the above remain valid, except add:
-Throw bed on ground, three second delay, night never happened.
Is it just me, or does that seem... just off compared to the others?
I really wish it would adjust the game speed instead of just skipping the night, everything would happen like normal but at a much faster rate. This way you get to skip nights, you can't sleep in the open and your farms will still grow.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
How would you programmatically define "inside"? What if your house doesn't have a door, but an opening instead? Is that outside or inside? If you're in a cave with an opening to the outside, is that inside or outside? What about having a huge room with a skylight?
That was the problem with the old system. The game can't know, in any way, if the bed is "inside" or not. What it did, was to use the level of light on the blocks around the bed. If lit enough, mob spawning was prevented. This is where the rule with the "don't put your bed next to a wall" comes from. I had all my beds right next to the wall. Spawns was prevented with a single torch on the outside.
I think it was a good system, but I also understand why it was changed. The numerous threads we had about being woken up by a mob should be proof enough that the system was ilogical to too many players. The current system works a lot better in that regard.
I agree with this particular point. This game has never been truly hard, ever. Resources were scarcer, health was different; but it has never actually been 'hard'. Sure armor decayed quickly and eventually any armor, regardless of material, became garbage at a point; but in truth you never needed armor at all. Have one or two emergency pork-chops on the bar for instant half health recovery.
To excerpt from above: 3 zombies, 2 skeletons, and a creeper?
Machine-gun arrows to the creeper; its dead. (Remember the no drawing the arrows back days?) Then spam click while moving slightly to the right; the zombies can't 'turn' fast enough to hit you; and old skeleton's target tracking wasn't good enough to hit you. Ever.
At least now I have to manage hunger; I lose some every time I hit a mob, which is a darn sight more difficult for players that never actually get hit because the mobs are pitiful.
Mob AI improvements are the 'right' (in my opinion) way of making the game more challenging. That is what reminds me of older Minecraft; play smarter. Be creative in your approaches / resource management. Adapt and invent ways of counteracting hostile elements of the environment.
There are of course, and always have been; easy / efficient methods, and tricky / fancy ways of doing things.
As an example, you need to survive the night:
-Dig a 1x3 hole, sit in it; plug it up. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Build yourself into a 1x2 box, leave the top opened. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Dig into the side of a hill, make a temporary living hole. You have something tangible leftover, and look; its probably eaten up half the night already. Walk away for 2-3 minutes.
-Build a small outpost-style 'home' to hide in. If you decor this structure in any way; you now have a mining house, an outpost, or just another village home to build on to later. And look at that; the suns probably close to coming up.
Now; all of the above remain valid, except add:
-Throw bed on ground, three second delay, night never happened.
Is it just me, or does that seem... just off compared to the others?
I can see your points, hm.
I am glad you also think beds are ridiculous now
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
That was the problem with the old system. The game can't know, in any way, if the bed is "inside" or not. What it did, was to use the level of light on the blocks around the bed. If lit enough, mob spawning was prevented. This is where the rule with the "don't put your bed next to a wall" comes from. I had all my beds right next to the wall. Spawns was prevented with a single torch on the outside.
I think it was a good system, but I also understand why it was changed. The numerous threads we had about being woken up by a mob should be proof enough that the system was ilogical to too many players. The current system works a lot better in that regard.
A time compression system would fix all the problems. Sure it wouldn't make and instant switch from night to day but you would gain crop and baby mob growth, as well as smelting. You couldn't just skip the hostile mob spawn cycle too, they would still spawn and wander around. You should wake up if something gets a "lock" onto you not through a wall.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
The amount of caves being too high, iron being too easy to find. Yeah those things
That's not difficulty, that's convenience. I'm not entirely sure you understand the words you're carelessly throwing around. There's nothing "hard" about any of that. You either found it, or you did not. Now, it seems that you find it more often which does not make the game any easier than what it once was, because at the rate you are gathering resources, you are only progressing into the game faster. And obviously there are some who enjoy that and others who do not.
Minecraft is a far cry from being "hard", and anything in terms of difficulty is nothing more than an opinion. It's pretty naive to really say anything against it since you aren't a developer. You are simply arguing your opinion against the opinions of others. We all have one, and they will differ, but trying to force your opinion onto others really hurts whatever argument you're trying to make.
Yes I played alpha. It was great, sure it had bugs, and the new features we have are cool, but the game feel was better.
Your point doesn't make sense. There is no chance of dieing if you sleep outside, mobs don't spawn when you sleep, since it skips to day time.
Actually your logic should be You don't need to sleep in a safe area, so you don't need a sword to go through a cave
No, what you said about a bed and what i said about caves are different scenarios but they relate to each other as both of them are completely absurd and nonsense, what i really mean was.
If the bed system should change as it was before because it lets you sleep outside and that makes no sense at all.
Also going into a cave or a ravine that has a lot of mobs without any sort of weapon or protection is also and even more absurd than that..
Then, because it is absurd it should also be removed/changed.
And no, by the time you are able to sleep you can expect some creepers, zombies and skelies around the area.
And because the outside at night is really dangerous, even if there are not monster around, lets say you die the next day when you try to fight monster at night, you will re-spawn in a completely unprotected area with no house around you, no weapons or anything to defeat the monsters.
Common sense applies to this situation, if you want to sleep outside knowing you are probably going to die, then do it. But that you can sleep unprotected doesnt means it is the best way to do it.
Of course, you can sleep outside, but it is at your own risk, the chances of dying are high.
As a matter of fact, if you are able to use a bed at all there is absolutely zero risk of you dying when using it (barring Nether usage). Mobs spawning around you ended when they changed the functionality.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fighting ignorance and false information one post at a time.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
No, what you said about a bed and what i said about caves are different scenarios but they relate to each other as both of them are completely absurd and nonsense, what i really mean was.
If the bed system should change as it was before because it lets you sleep outside and that makes no sense at all.
Also going into a cave or a ravine that has a lot of mobs without any sort of weapon or protection is also and even more absurd than that..
Then, because it is absurd it should also be removed/changed.
And no, by the time you are able to sleep you can expect some creepers, zombies and skelies around the area.
And because the outside at night is really dangerous, even if there are not monster around, lets say you die the next day when you try to fight monster at night, you will re-spawn in a completely unprotected area with no house around you, no weapons or anything to defeat the monsters.
Common sense applies to this situation, if you want to sleep outside knowing you are probably going to die, then do it. But that you can sleep unprotected doesnt means it is the best way to do it.
You are playing the current build right?
Before 1.8, you couldn't sleep anywhere that wasn't safe. Now, you just kill any mobs around you, if there are any, and you sleep, bam! No threat! No effort.
This is a matter of the bed being overpowered.
You used to could skip the night, but you needed to have the bed in a safe area.
Now you can just skip it outside,
That is what's absurd.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I was well aware of this change when it occurred and I was actually fine with it being implemented.
Even though I agree beds should probably have to be used in an enclosed area, the old system had far too many issues, which would result in a monster popping up beside my bed in the middle of the night. It became more irritating then anything.
Even if you don't like the bed the way it is, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from treating it like it still behaves the old way. (i.e. don't sleep in it unless you are in an enclosed structure) I still do this in SSP.
It seemed that every update with the old bed resulted in me having to change my house in order to prevent monsters from spawning while I slept.
Another issue that I don't think was ever solved was your bed room could not have double doors that connected to the outside. (I found it sort of limiting architecturally) When double doors are used apparently even if both looked closed one still counts as being open. (you can see this if you try to restrain passive mobs behind double doors, they will all cluster around one door trying to get out.) The result was that you couldn't sleep in a room with double doors.
The interesting thing about the new system is that if you are just starting out sometimes you will be forced to go outside to kill something that is nearby your small shack, because it won't let you go to sleep if something is too close even if they could not possibly reach you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When no one was looking, the Endermen took forty blocks.
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
I was well aware of this change when it occurred and I was actually fine with it being implemented.
Even though I agree beds should probably have to be used in an enclosed area, the old system had far too many issues, which would result in a monster popping up beside my bed in the middle of the night. It became more irritating then anything.
Even if you don't like the bed the way it is, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from treating it like it still behaves the old way. (i.e. don't sleep in it unless you are in an enclosed structure) I still do this in SSP.
It seemed that every update with the old bed resulted in me having to change my house in order to prevent monsters from spawning while I slept.
Another issue that I don't think was ever solved was your bed room could not have double doors that connected to the outside. (I found it sort of limiting architecturally) When double doors are used apparently even if both looked closed one still counts as being open. (you can see this if you try to restrain passive mobs behind double doors, they will all cluster around one door trying to get out.) The result was that you couldn't sleep in a room with double doors.
The interesting thing about the new system is that if you are just starting out sometimes you will be forced to go outside to kill something that is nearby your small shack, because it won't let you go to sleep if something is to close even if they could not possibly reach you.
Avoiding the issue isn't the point, sure my bed is in my cool fort, but it breaks the standard that the game holds everyone too, that is the game breaking part.
The old system was easy, you just couldn't put a bed right at a wall, leave 1 block space around it, BAM. Totally safe.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
The game is breaking apart all because of the way the bed works now?
Talk about over-dramatic.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fighting ignorance and false information one post at a time.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
The game is breaking apart all because of the way the bed works now?
Talk about over-dramatic.
No, it's that they work anywhere, regardless of whether they are safe or not. Which is just dumb. This is completely too easy
"-Dig a 1x3 hole, sit in it; plug it up. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Build yourself into a 1x2 box, leave the top opened. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Dig into the side of a hill, make a temporary living hole. You have something tangible leftover, and look; its probably eaten up half the night already. Walk away for 2-3 minutes.
-Build a small outpost-style 'home' to hide in. If you decor this structure in any way; you now have a mining house, an outpost, or just another village home to build on to later. And look at that; the suns probably close to coming up.
Now; all of the above remain valid, except add:
-Throw bed on ground, three second delay, night never happened.
Is it just me, or does that seem... just off compared to the others? "
Quoted from another member.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I'm not sure where Mojang want to go with Minecraft in terms of the survival aspect. I personally think the term is wasted on the current version of Minecraft and only cause confusion. Survival currently just means you need to gather and produce the resources you need. It's definetly not related to actual survival.
I don't think I would enjoy a survival version of Minecraft very much. I like being forced to manage resources, but I don't like the idea of being forced to spend a significant amount of my time finding food or making defences against mobs.
... :sleep.gif: Yes it was hard...
The amount of caves being too high, iron being too easy to find. Yeah those things
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
You post depresses me greatly. The game needs to be harder, and then you'd play on easy. That was the point back in the day
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
There is absolutely no way to categorize those with anything to do with difficulty.
Amount of caves too high? So what? It makes the maps have more character and more opportunities to meet monsters underground.
Iron is more prolific? Oh no! You have to spend less time chopping up stone! That isn't the game being easier, it's the game having less of a time sink.
Still waiting for a valid answer.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
I agree with this particular point. This game has never been truly hard, ever. Resources were scarcer, health was different; but it has never actually been 'hard'. Sure armor decayed quickly and eventually any armor, regardless of material, became garbage at a point; but in truth you never needed armor at all. Have one or two emergency pork-chops on the bar for instant half health recovery.
To excerpt from above: 3 zombies, 2 skeletons, and a creeper?
Machine-gun arrows to the creeper; its dead. (Remember the no drawing the arrows back days?) Then spam click while moving slightly to the right; the zombies can't 'turn' fast enough to hit you; and old skeleton's target tracking wasn't good enough to hit you. Ever.
At least now I have to manage hunger; I lose some every time I hit a mob, which is a darn sight more difficult for players that never actually get hit because the mobs are pitiful.
Mob AI improvements are the 'right' (in my opinion) way of making the game more challenging. That is what reminds me of older Minecraft; play smarter. Be creative in your approaches / resource management. Adapt and invent ways of counteracting hostile elements of the environment.
There are of course, and always have been; easy / efficient methods, and tricky / fancy ways of doing things.
As an example, you need to survive the night:
-Dig a 1x3 hole, sit in it; plug it up. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Build yourself into a 1x2 box, leave the top opened. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Dig into the side of a hill, make a temporary living hole. You have something tangible leftover, and look; its probably eaten up half the night already. Walk away for 2-3 minutes.
-Build a small outpost-style 'home' to hide in. If you decor this structure in any way; you now have a mining house, an outpost, or just another village home to build on to later. And look at that; the suns probably close to coming up.
Now; all of the above remain valid, except add:
-Throw bed on ground, three second delay, night never happened.
Is it just me, or does that seem... just off compared to the others?
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
That was the problem with the old system. The game can't know, in any way, if the bed is "inside" or not. What it did, was to use the level of light on the blocks around the bed. If lit enough, mob spawning was prevented. This is where the rule with the "don't put your bed next to a wall" comes from. I had all my beds right next to the wall. Spawns was prevented with a single torch on the outside.
I think it was a good system, but I also understand why it was changed. The numerous threads we had about being woken up by a mob should be proof enough that the system was ilogical to too many players. The current system works a lot better in that regard.
I can see your points, hm.
I am glad you also think beds are ridiculous now
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Okay lets say...
When you go to a cave, do you need a sword?, No , you can use your bare hands to attack the mobs . but it is at your own risk
If we take it to your point, lets also make it impossible to get into a cave without a sword because it is also absurd Isnt it?
Also, by the date you joined, i guess you where here since alpha right? Yep, that explains all *read my signature*
A time compression system would fix all the problems. Sure it wouldn't make and instant switch from night to day but you would gain crop and baby mob growth, as well as smelting. You couldn't just skip the hostile mob spawn cycle too, they would still spawn and wander around. You should wake up if something gets a "lock" onto you not through a wall.
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Yes I played alpha. It was great, sure it had bugs, and the new features we have are cool, but the game feel was better.
Your point doesn't make sense. There is no chance of dieing if you sleep outside, mobs don't spawn when you sleep, since it skips to day time.
Actually your logic should be You don't need to sleep in a safe area, so you don't need a sword to go through a cave
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
That's not difficulty, that's convenience. I'm not entirely sure you understand the words you're carelessly throwing around. There's nothing "hard" about any of that. You either found it, or you did not. Now, it seems that you find it more often which does not make the game any easier than what it once was, because at the rate you are gathering resources, you are only progressing into the game faster. And obviously there are some who enjoy that and others who do not.
Minecraft is a far cry from being "hard", and anything in terms of difficulty is nothing more than an opinion. It's pretty naive to really say anything against it since you aren't a developer. You are simply arguing your opinion against the opinions of others. We all have one, and they will differ, but trying to force your opinion onto others really hurts whatever argument you're trying to make.
No, what you said about a bed and what i said about caves are different scenarios but they relate to each other as both of them are completely absurd and nonsense, what i really mean was.
If the bed system should change as it was before because it lets you sleep outside and that makes no sense at all.
Also going into a cave or a ravine that has a lot of mobs without any sort of weapon or protection is also and even more absurd than that..
Then, because it is absurd it should also be removed/changed.
And no, by the time you are able to sleep you can expect some creepers, zombies and skelies around the area.
And because the outside at night is really dangerous, even if there are not monster around, lets say you die the next day when you try to fight monster at night, you will re-spawn in a completely unprotected area with no house around you, no weapons or anything to defeat the monsters.
Common sense applies to this situation, if you want to sleep outside knowing you are probably going to die, then do it. But that you can sleep unprotected doesnt means it is the best way to do it.
As a matter of fact, if you are able to use a bed at all there is absolutely zero risk of you dying when using it (barring Nether usage). Mobs spawning around you ended when they changed the functionality.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
You are playing the current build right?
Before 1.8, you couldn't sleep anywhere that wasn't safe. Now, you just kill any mobs around you, if there are any, and you sleep, bam! No threat! No effort.
This is a matter of the bed being overpowered.
You used to could skip the night, but you needed to have the bed in a safe area.
Now you can just skip it outside,
That is what's absurd.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Even though I agree beds should probably have to be used in an enclosed area, the old system had far too many issues, which would result in a monster popping up beside my bed in the middle of the night. It became more irritating then anything.
Even if you don't like the bed the way it is, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from treating it like it still behaves the old way. (i.e. don't sleep in it unless you are in an enclosed structure) I still do this in SSP.
It seemed that every update with the old bed resulted in me having to change my house in order to prevent monsters from spawning while I slept.
Another issue that I don't think was ever solved was your bed room could not have double doors that connected to the outside. (I found it sort of limiting architecturally) When double doors are used apparently even if both looked closed one still counts as being open. (you can see this if you try to restrain passive mobs behind double doors, they will all cluster around one door trying to get out.) The result was that you couldn't sleep in a room with double doors.
The interesting thing about the new system is that if you are just starting out sometimes you will be forced to go outside to kill something that is nearby your small shack, because it won't let you go to sleep if something is too close even if they could not possibly reach you.
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
Avoiding the issue isn't the point, sure my bed is in my cool fort, but it breaks the standard that the game holds everyone too, that is the game breaking part.
The old system was easy, you just couldn't put a bed right at a wall, leave 1 block space around it, BAM. Totally safe.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
The game is breaking apart all because of the way the bed works now?
Talk about over-dramatic.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
No, it's that they work anywhere, regardless of whether they are safe or not. Which is just dumb. This is completely too easy
"-Dig a 1x3 hole, sit in it; plug it up. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Build yourself into a 1x2 box, leave the top opened. Walk away for 8-10 minutes.
-Dig into the side of a hill, make a temporary living hole. You have something tangible leftover, and look; its probably eaten up half the night already. Walk away for 2-3 minutes.
-Build a small outpost-style 'home' to hide in. If you decor this structure in any way; you now have a mining house, an outpost, or just another village home to build on to later. And look at that; the suns probably close to coming up.
Now; all of the above remain valid, except add:
-Throw bed on ground, three second delay, night never happened.
Is it just me, or does that seem... just off compared to the others? "
Quoted from another member.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2