All hail nothing, he caved in to the massive whining by a very vocal minority.
Minecraft is a building/survival game, not a Parkour simulator. Therefore decisions about game mechanics should cater to the building/survival aspect. Not parkour. Parkour is something that is a nice little benefit of the game engine. But not it's primary function.
His compromise is to make vines climbable without a collision box. Like we want to have vines all over our nice urban looking bases. That's just stupid.
A better solution would have been to make vines climbable, and give THEM the collision box. And leave ladders alone.
Parkour would be better on maps with vines than ladders. It would be more natural looking terrain, instead of such manufactured looking courses.
Why doesn't anyone think of this? It's so much the better solution.
like i said in the OP, which it seems very few people are actually reading, minecraft is not about parkour yes but its so lenient.. u know just read the OP im tired if repeating myself. parkour is an urban sport btw so having ladders with the box is fine. you say parkour is a nice benefit to the game. thank you i agree, so this is a good thing. no collision boxes is a miniscule benefit with a larger detriment. with jeb's compromise im sure most of the community is satisfied. neither of us have any real evidence to the fact of whose the minority here, but i think the minority are those that wanted to get rid of the collisions who follow nova's videos. and for all the people who have used collision boxed ladders since Alpha minecraft, our maps still have working ladders now. i would hate to have the entirety of the minecraft community stuck with fixing all their ladders on previous maps that have been used for countless updates just so you can float up the side of the ladders in your urban retreat
All hail nothing, he caved in to the massive whining by a very vocal minority.
oh please. He took it out in the first place in response to that same vocal minority (who hopefully have learned something about unintended consequences). It's simply been restored to how it was before, and which arguably works better. Before, some parkour people got annoyed with hitting the side and falling. The "fix" was only meant to fix their complaints. Non parkour people shouldn't have cared about that at all. On the other hand, with the hitbox removed entirely, everyone was negatively affected with the discussed impossibility of climbing out through a trapdoor etc. Reverting was the only sensible thing to do.
Because whoever doesn't share your opinion is the "vocal minority".
No, but most people (based on the many polls threads) agreed that they wanted the collision boxes to stay removed, therefor, you guys are the minority of the majority.
Minecraft is a building/survival game, not a Parkour simulator. Therefore decisions about game mechanics should cater to the building/survival aspect. Not parkour. Parkour is something that is a nice little benefit of the game engine. But not it's primary function.
Yeah, clearly standing on ladders is all about parkour ... oh wait, it actually isn't at all.
I don't even play parkour maps, and I benefit from standing on ladders all the time:
* Being able to use trap doors in a non-fugly way (building/survival aspect!)
* Exploring ravines and being able to quickly mine something (building/survival aspect!)
* Concealed floor entrances (building- ... you get the idea)
* Being able to tear down tall ladders quickly
* Seeing what's on a cliff/ledge before climbing onto it
For that matter, weren't the original complaints about the collision box because of somebody trying to jump sideways at a ladder? That sounds a lot more like a parkour thing than it does a building/survival thing.
Why would people consider the collision box a bug anyway? Having seen a ladder, I can assure you that they do, in fact, stick out from the wall.
All hail nothing, he caved in to the massive whining by a very vocal minority.
Minecraft is a building/survival game, not a Parkour simulator. Therefore decisions about game mechanics should cater to the building/survival aspect. Not parkour. Parkour is something that is a nice little benefit of the game engine. But not it's primary function.
His compromise is to make vines climbable without a collision box. Like we want to have vines all over our nice urban looking bases. That's just stupid.
A better solution would have been to make vines climbable, and give THEM the collision box. And leave ladders alone.
Parkour would be better on maps with vines than ladders. It would be more natural looking terrain, instead of such manufactured looking courses.
Why doesn't anyone think of this? It's so much the better solution.
How does that function as an excuse? Just because the basic intent of MC is for building/survival doesn't mean people can't use the game for different gameplay styles or themes; it's called being creative. Ladders have been like this since the start, and there was no reason to remove the hitbox to begin with. Some of the community has come to rely on it in a multitude of ways, and really, it makes since that you can stand on the top rung of a ladder.
What's the justification from the other side? That they don't have the motor skills to navigate around the hitbox? Really?
Yeah, clearly standing on ladders is all about parkour ... oh wait, it actually isn't at all.
I don't even play parkour maps, and I benefit from standing on ladders all the time:
* Being able to use trap doors in a non-fugly way (building/survival aspect!)
What is 'non-fugly' to you? And is your opinion really fact, or just you trying to speak for the 'majority'. Use some creativity, build around a trapdoor, include it in a piece of architecture. Work it into a design or feature creatively. Creativity IS what Minecraft is about, right?
* Exploring ravines and being able to quickly mine something (building/survival aspect!)
I don't see what your ravine point has to do with anything (one extra ladder? Oh noes!), but I'll give your mining point merit. Granted, there are workaround situations, but I agree for ease of use, the old ladders are best.
* Concealed floor entrances (building- ... you get the idea)
I saw a post in a thread similar to this that had an image of one extra piston being used to pull away a second block to make a sort of staircase up. All these things take is a little more creativity, which seems to be the main theme surrounding the hate for this change.
I don't see how having to tear down one more ladder than usual would really affect your Minecraft experience to such an extent that it appears as a complaint on a forum.
For that matter, weren't the original complaints about the collision box because of somebody trying to jump sideways at a ladder? That sounds a lot more like a parkour thing than it does a building/survival thing.
There was also the issue of falling from a height and being smashed to a pulp on the hitbox of an object that is CLEARLY attatched directly to the wall. The hitbox is empty space; and is more of an annoyance than anything. And God forbid you should have a ladder in a narrow hallway, and having to deal with collisions on the side of the hitbox.
Why would people consider the collision box a bug anyway? Having seen a ladder, I can assure you that they do, in fact, stick out from the wall.
I love the hypocrisy of this statement (but note this statement isn't aimed at you, as obviously I can't evaluate whether you actually ARE one of the people I will mention). If I used the 'real world' argument, I'd be ripped to shreds and prompty have statements like 'there's no green exploding shrubs in real life' shoved down my throat.
TL;DR: All you people are forgetting what ladders were originally for: climbing. I have no problem with you people being creative and finding new and original uses for the ladders (see; parkour) but don't go around whinging when the things you base your ideas around is changed to improve its ORIGINAL use. Unfortunately, that's what's happened here, and it's a shame that Jeb has been swayed by such a minority. Say what you want about Notch and his 'not listening to the community', but at least that attitude stopped things like this happening.
TL;DR: All you people are forgetting what ladders were originally for: climbing.
hey guess what? The change made them worse for their original use: climbing! You keep berating the parkour people for getting it reverted when it was their fault and to suit their ill thought out whims that the hitbox was removed at all, to the detriment of everyone. Now it's been put back how it was and we can climb again, and the parkour fans (who are still the poeople who complained most vocally about the hitbox) can go back to dealing with it, and the rest of us can not care
I can't figure how you can argue so heartily for a change that was made to suit the parkour fans but harmed the experience for everyone, then turn around and ***** at them for getting it fixed. It's their fault the change happened, not that it got reverted
There was also the issue of falling from a height and being smashed to a pulp on the hitbox of an object that is CLEARLY attatched directly to the wall.
Ok, I have to ask, because several people have mentioned this. What the heck are you guys doing? Jumping off random cliffs in the hope that there will be some water to land in? Or were you expecting ladders to act as an "air brake" and stop your fall?
Because when I make drop shafts, I make sure there's water at the bottom and the shaft is clear - I certainly don't stick a random ladder on the wall and hope for the best. And if it's not a drop shaft, I don't jump down some huge distance!
I'm just having trouble thinking of a situation where:
1) You hit a ladder and died. But ...
2) If the ladder wasn't there, you wouldn't have died from hitting the ground below it.
like i said in the OP, which it seems very few people are actually reading, minecraft is not about parkour yes but its so lenient.. u know just read the OP im tired if repeating myself. parkour is an urban sport btw so having ladders with the box is fine. you say parkour is a nice benefit to the game. thank you i agree, so this is a good thing. no collision boxes is a miniscule benefit with a larger detriment. with jeb's compromise im sure most of the community is satisfied. neither of us have any real evidence to the fact of whose the minority here, but i think the minority are those that wanted to get rid of the collisions who follow nova's videos. and for all the people who have used collision boxed ladders since Alpha minecraft, our maps still have working ladders now. i would hate to have the entirety of the minecraft community stuck with fixing all their ladders on previous maps that have been used for countless updates just so you can float up the side of the ladders in your urban retreat
Email me here. You should get a reply within 3-5 years
oh please. He took it out in the first place in response to that same vocal minority (who hopefully have learned something about unintended consequences). It's simply been restored to how it was before, and which arguably works better. Before, some parkour people got annoyed with hitting the side and falling. The "fix" was only meant to fix their complaints. Non parkour people shouldn't have cared about that at all. On the other hand, with the hitbox removed entirely, everyone was negatively affected with the discussed impossibility of climbing out through a trapdoor etc. Reverting was the only sensible thing to do.
Because whoever doesn't share your opinion is the "vocal minority".
hell yes +1
Email me here. You should get a reply within 3-5 years
And please, keep the ladder jumps to a minimum!
No, but most people (based on the many polls threads) agreed that they wanted the collision boxes to stay removed, therefor, you guys are the minority of the majority.
I don't even play parkour maps, and I benefit from standing on ladders all the time:
* Being able to use trap doors in a non-fugly way (building/survival aspect!)
* Exploring ravines and being able to quickly mine something (building/survival aspect!)
* Concealed floor entrances (building- ... you get the idea)
* Being able to tear down tall ladders quickly
* Seeing what's on a cliff/ledge before climbing onto it
For that matter, weren't the original complaints about the collision box because of somebody trying to jump sideways at a ladder? That sounds a lot more like a parkour thing than it does a building/survival thing.
Why would people consider the collision box a bug anyway? Having seen a ladder, I can assure you that they do, in fact, stick out from the wall.
How does that function as an excuse? Just because the basic intent of MC is for building/survival doesn't mean people can't use the game for different gameplay styles or themes; it's called being creative. Ladders have been like this since the start, and there was no reason to remove the hitbox to begin with. Some of the community has come to rely on it in a multitude of ways, and really, it makes since that you can stand on the top rung of a ladder.
What's the justification from the other side? That they don't have the motor skills to navigate around the hitbox? Really?
What is 'non-fugly' to you? And is your opinion really fact, or just you trying to speak for the 'majority'. Use some creativity, build around a trapdoor, include it in a piece of architecture. Work it into a design or feature creatively. Creativity IS what Minecraft is about, right?
I don't see what your ravine point has to do with anything (one extra ladder? Oh noes!), but I'll give your mining point merit. Granted, there are workaround situations, but I agree for ease of use, the old ladders are best.
I saw a post in a thread similar to this that had an image of one extra piston being used to pull away a second block to make a sort of staircase up. All these things take is a little more creativity, which seems to be the main theme surrounding the hate for this change.
I don't see how having to tear down one more ladder than usual would really affect your Minecraft experience to such an extent that it appears as a complaint on a forum.
Why not add a block off to the side of the ladder so that you can move over to to get a look?
There was also the issue of falling from a height and being smashed to a pulp on the hitbox of an object that is CLEARLY attatched directly to the wall. The hitbox is empty space; and is more of an annoyance than anything. And God forbid you should have a ladder in a narrow hallway, and having to deal with collisions on the side of the hitbox.
I love the hypocrisy of this statement (but note this statement isn't aimed at you, as obviously I can't evaluate whether you actually ARE one of the people I will mention). If I used the 'real world' argument, I'd be ripped to shreds and prompty have statements like 'there's no green exploding shrubs in real life' shoved down my throat.
TL;DR: All you people are forgetting what ladders were originally for: climbing. I have no problem with you people being creative and finding new and original uses for the ladders (see; parkour) but don't go around whinging when the things you base your ideas around is changed to improve its ORIGINAL use. Unfortunately, that's what's happened here, and it's a shame that Jeb has been swayed by such a minority. Say what you want about Notch and his 'not listening to the community', but at least that attitude stopped things like this happening.
hey guess what? The change made them worse for their original use: climbing! You keep berating the parkour people for getting it reverted when it was their fault and to suit their ill thought out whims that the hitbox was removed at all, to the detriment of everyone. Now it's been put back how it was and we can climb again, and the parkour fans (who are still the poeople who complained most vocally about the hitbox) can go back to dealing with it, and the rest of us can not care
I can't figure how you can argue so heartily for a change that was made to suit the parkour fans but harmed the experience for everyone, then turn around and ***** at them for getting it fixed. It's their fault the change happened, not that it got reverted
erm, we like the hitbox. i never wanted it to be removed. only nubs hit the sides/tops of ladders and hurt themselves :biggrin.gif:
Email me here. You should get a reply within 3-5 years
Because when I make drop shafts, I make sure there's water at the bottom and the shaft is clear - I certainly don't stick a random ladder on the wall and hope for the best. And if it's not a drop shaft, I don't jump down some huge distance!
I'm just having trouble thinking of a situation where:
1) You hit a ladder and died. But ...
2) If the ladder wasn't there, you wouldn't have died from hitting the ground below it.