Also: if it's really important that you use XP... there IS a 64-bit edition of XP.
The "reason" is java heap size. The problem is more or less with the Java VM and the way it manages contiguous free blocks of memory for Garbage Collection. Of course you are free to blame whomever the **** you want on this- naturally you will blame everybody but yourself.
Ok please explain to me the logic of these factors that they are not fixing. That ALL OF A SUDDEN dont allow people with 32-bit to go on Very far which before this patch and this patch ran and runs at 100+ FPS but crashes? What is the reasonig behind that?
They changed the way lighting data was handled, so Blocks were lit faster. The downside being that they required slightly more memory for lighting calculations per-block (if only transiently) and as a result it now breaks the default heap size of the 32-bit Java VM. when you have it on Far render distance. Note that on Windows 7 the default heap size is higher for some weird reason, which would explain the anecdotal notation by another user. I think I mentioned this before but you can just make a batch file to execute the jar using a specified heap size, rather than the default. I'm not 100% if that fixes it but I think it helped Jeb when he was looking into the issue when it first cropped up. Basically, they optimized the game but it breaks the default Java VM configuration for XP 32-bit.
Where the hell did Mojang say we needed a 64-bit OS to run Minecraft on highest settings in 1.8.1? Sure 1.0 added the red text, but the issue started in 1.8.
That is the equivalent of bitching that the game doesn't run on DOS or Windows 3.1. They didn't, and still haven't, officially published any System Requirements. That doesn't automatically mean they are saying "it will work no matter what on your system!" It means you have to experiment. It also doesn't mean "When you first play it, it will be faster and work better in future updates on that same system". Like I said, they optimized the lighting code, at the cost of using more memory, this extra usage of the memory breaks the default Oracle Java VM configuration as it exists on XP 32-bit. Either get a 64-bit OS (which is a good idea, either that or remove 12GB of your memory and let somebody else have it that will actually use it) or look up on the Oracle site how to change the Java Heap size. Mojang doesn't provide the instructions/shell script to do that simply because it is usually unsupported by Oracle as well as it often resulting in more generic stability problems.
In this day and age, having a 32-bit system- or running a system with a 32-bit Only OS- is equivalent to running a 16-bit system was in 1997. You're ten years to late and ten dollars short of being even remotely close to a platform worth targeting even as a satellite demographic that it wouldn't matter if the game didn't work at all.
I play on far render on a computer less than half as powerful as the OP, which runs XP Pro 32bit, no problems whatsoever. I'm probably not the only one.
To stay on topic: Mods can also easily crash your game, what do you have installed? At the very least, post a crash log of your client crashing even if you play minecraft completely vanilla.
Just for the record, the primary reason that 64bit doesn't always show an improvement is because an application has to be built specifically to do so, or else it runs as a 32bit program like normal, the most likely reason the benchmarks for those games are the same (most games are 32bit). Minecraft using 64bit java however, would likely see an improvement.
Just clearing that up, not trying to say who's better just don't need misinformation.
Ever since 1.8.1 and still here at 1.0.0, my minecraft has started rapidly crashing, well it's never actually crashed but it freezes and never goes back to a playable frame rate until I restart Minecraft.
It is not my hardware that is causing this issue.
CPU: i7 2600K @ 4.0GHz
GPU: GTX 550 Ti @ 1000MHz
RAM: 16GB @ 1600MHz
OS: 32-Bit Windows XP
I've been playing this game since 2/4/11 and I've been playing on maximum settings ever since, with a reliable 100-400 FPS.
Why is it that now, out of nowhere, since 1.8 was released my minecraft crashes randomly while the render distance is set to Far? Even on Far, I get well over 100 FPS but at times when I move a few blocks, it will crash.
I've tried all the stuff most people will suggest I do, like updating and downgrading GPU Drivers, testing the RAM, GPU and CPU for stability, setting the affinity for minecraft to run on one CPU core, trying different types of Java.. custom .bats to launch minecraft with more and less RAM, but nothing has worked.
edit:i see you bought your ram with good intentions. sorry for questioning
on another note, it is kind of ridiculous that our systems should be able to run it fine, but i think its more to do with java and its use of memory.
your 3.4 gigs of 16 gigs
The problem is definitely your 32bit machine, because I went from 64bit to 32bit, and right back to 64bit. (Dont ask.)
The performance hit was horrendous with the early pre-release and SPhax excellent texture.
Plus that annoying tool tip saying Far is not for 32bit machines, once I found my 64bit disc I went back and loaded pre-release and it was obviously smoother.
So definitely give 64bit a try, my other game World of Tanks wouldn't even let me select Highest texture on 32bit.
64 bit Java is recommended when using Render Distance: Far. I know it is not possible for you to use 64 bit Java on a 32 bit OS. So, all I can suggest is a. upgrading b. using a lower render distance. Hope this helped a little.
Wild shot in the dark here, but if the OS is only recognizing 3.5GB and let's say he has a dedicated 2 or even 3 GB's worth of RAM dedicated to Java, that may be why Minecraft is crashing. Mess around with your Java allocation settings, if you haven't already. Less is more with Minecraft if your running it Vanilla with no texture packs that is.
A better way to put it would be all of a sudden a 99 Camry becomes illegal to drive on a highway, and it didn't make the news. You carry on with your usual day but get arrested for it on your way home from work and get the typical "Ignorance doesn't equal innocence" argument when you plead not guilty.
Where the hell did Mojang say we needed a 64-bit OS to run Minecraft on highest settings in 1.8.1? Sure 1.0 added the red text, but the issue started in 1.8.
It was just a side effect of code being added on to the game. In some cases people are able to get away with 32-bit, but most do not. Here's the four options you should go through.
1. Don't play on the Far setting.
2. Try a mod like OptiFine and hope it somehow effects how far is processed. It's a stretch, but at least you don't have to buy anything.
3. Wait for an update. Problems like these were created on accident with updates. A new update might get rid of it again, however that may never happen.
4. Dual boot with your Windows 7. Use Xp whenever you want, but go into 7 when you play Minecraft. Heck you can even change 7's theme if you hate it so much. Also you can download different photo viewers and paint programs online, since you do not like the default.
These are the most obvious options I see, there might be other things you can do, but there is no harm in trying something out.
Really? You did this to a 16 GB machine? For what, a theme and .gif previews?
WindowsBlinds and Infranview would've solved your problems without having to downgrade.
I play on far render on a computer less than half as powerful as the OP, which runs XP Pro 32bit, no problems whatsoever. I'm probably not the only one.
Which means . . .
. . . nothing.
The amount of memory a world uses varies depending on what's in it, as well as whether or not he's running multiplayer.
Not to mention he may have his OS set up with different stuff running in the background. Things like Skype, instant messengers, file sync software, etc can all affect the memory load. Even the number of tabs he has open in his browser can affect it.
Also, memory models today are complex. We're talking about a virtual machine that layers on its own memory model on top of the existing memory model the OS provides. Does stuff blow up sometimes when you try to do this? Yup, sure does.
I had this problem as well. I read many many posts about this problem. I seen many youtube video's claiming they had THE fix. But NOTHING worked. Most people said to give Java MORE memory. But that didnt fix a thing. Then someone somewhere suggested to give Java LESS memory. And guess what?! It worked! No more crashes. No more Minecraft has run out of memory errors. It's fixed!
I would say give this a try.
Also try using Java 7.
It may be something as simple as Java not working well with Windows when it hits a page fault.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When all is said and done, Will you have said more than you have done?
32bit Machine cannot address more than 3.25GB of RAM, yet OP has 16GB. Not to mention for an 2600k and a GTX 550 that OS is unacceptable. Install Windows 7 64bit and enjoy a BETTER experience.
OP thinks that ALL his 16GB of RAM are available for the OS and games, but he is wrong.
I see you failed to read the posts prior to yours.
I know that I cannot use all this RAM, I purchased it because I got a good deal on it and I thought I'd be using a 64-bit OS. I planned to give it some time, figure out how much RAM I'd like to be usable in my system, and put the extra to use as a RAMDisk for a bunch of stuff that could benefit from it.
Welcome to the thread, you'll find a bunch of people similar to you in here. :smile.gif:
I'm running Windows 7, 32bit, Java6 Update 29
I had this problem as well. I read many many posts about this problem. I seen many youtube video's claiming they had THE fix. But NOTHING worked. Most people said to give Java MORE memory. But that didnt fix a thing. Then someone somewhere suggested to give Java LESS memory. And guess what?! It worked! No more crashes. No more Minecraft has run out of memory errors. It's fixed!
How? This:
Control Panel > System > Advanced System Settings > Advanced Tab > Environment Variables
I'm not saying this will be THE fix for everyone. But if it helped me,
then it must be able to help some others as well. Try it.
This seems to be working so far, I've not been playing for long but I have started a single-player map and flew around very fast, which usually triggered the crash within 5 minutes if I flew in a straight line.
It helped a bit. Thanks for the suggestion.
Edit: After around two hours, the game has crashed, saying it has run out of memory.
This effectively prolonged the crash and the game was play-able until it crashed, whereas before the game would just freeze for 5 minutes or so then crash.
Still an improvement, it's funny how giving it less memory has helped it a bit.
Personally, I'd do a batch file to launch minecraft.jar . . .
Doing it via the control panel affects all Java apps, not just Minecraft.
Still an improvement, it's funny how giving it less memory has helped it a bit.
Basically, it means the problem isn't due to total memory, it's due to how memory is being managed. If that's the case, upgrading back to Windows 7 may actually help, as memory management in Windows 7 is much improved over XP.
If you really want it to look like XP, grab a copy of WindowsBlinds. If you really want to see .gifs, I believe Infranview should work.
Personally, I don't see why you consider those two things drastic enough to warrant a downgrade, but whatever. IMO those are pretty minor compared to the benefits you get.
You could also try Java 7, which is much improved over Java 6 and may also fix memory management issues if the issues are in the JVM.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When all is said and done, Will you have said more than you have done?
Got Windows 7 32bit and running Java 7, have the same problem.
Minecraft only ever allocates 500mb, and never goes over half that. Debug information says memory counts up to 220mb and then resets to 100 every a few seconds. Something is definitely not right with how the current Minecraft handles memory, or how Minecraft-Java are working, unless the debug is outdated. Does Java use more than 2-3GB on your 64bit systems, 64bit people?
I get 2 whole cpu cores at 100% in the main menu as well? Its just bizarre.
I think all we can really do is wait around and hope Mojang acknowledges this is happening at least on a few systems =/
Hey folk, I've been trying to set up this batch file, or shortcut, or whatever to get Minecraft to use Java 64 bit, but I'm not having any luck.
Yes, I have a 64 bit operating system, a Gateway 3 ghz dual core, with 4 gig of ram, Radeon HD 4250, Windows 7, tried both Java 6 and 7, not concurrently, both 64 bit and 32 bit, tired uninstalling 32 and just running with 64 and even then it doesn't work, and I have a bit (mostly outdated) computer savvy
Now that that's outa the way, I'm using Java 7, as if neither work, I might as well stay with the better one that doesn't. As such, I've set up my .bat file as such -
"C:\Program Files\Java\jre7\bin\javaw.exe" -Xmx2G -Xms1024M -cp C:\Users\MYNAME\AppData\Roaming\.minecraft\minecraft.exe"
pause
I've also tried similar with changing the target on the short cut. I've referenced about 20+ forum posts, websites, and been at this all afternoon. What am I doing wrong, or WTF is going on, on the off chance I'm not incompetent. :tongue.gif:
No, there was not but now there is.
Yes it is.
Also: if it's really important that you use XP... there IS a 64-bit edition of XP.
The "reason" is java heap size. The problem is more or less with the Java VM and the way it manages contiguous free blocks of memory for Garbage Collection. Of course you are free to blame whomever the **** you want on this- naturally you will blame everybody but yourself.
They changed the way lighting data was handled, so Blocks were lit faster. The downside being that they required slightly more memory for lighting calculations per-block (if only transiently) and as a result it now breaks the default heap size of the 32-bit Java VM. when you have it on Far render distance. Note that on Windows 7 the default heap size is higher for some weird reason, which would explain the anecdotal notation by another user. I think I mentioned this before but you can just make a batch file to execute the jar using a specified heap size, rather than the default. I'm not 100% if that fixes it but I think it helped Jeb when he was looking into the issue when it first cropped up. Basically, they optimized the game but it breaks the default Java VM configuration for XP 32-bit.
That is the equivalent of bitching that the game doesn't run on DOS or Windows 3.1. They didn't, and still haven't, officially published any System Requirements. That doesn't automatically mean they are saying "it will work no matter what on your system!" It means you have to experiment. It also doesn't mean "When you first play it, it will be faster and work better in future updates on that same system". Like I said, they optimized the lighting code, at the cost of using more memory, this extra usage of the memory breaks the default Oracle Java VM configuration as it exists on XP 32-bit. Either get a 64-bit OS (which is a good idea, either that or remove 12GB of your memory and let somebody else have it that will actually use it) or look up on the Oracle site how to change the Java Heap size. Mojang doesn't provide the instructions/shell script to do that simply because it is usually unsupported by Oracle as well as it often resulting in more generic stability problems.
In this day and age, having a 32-bit system- or running a system with a 32-bit Only OS- is equivalent to running a 16-bit system was in 1997. You're ten years to late and ten dollars short of being even remotely close to a platform worth targeting even as a satellite demographic that it wouldn't matter if the game didn't work at all.
No its not.
I play on far render on a computer less than half as powerful as the OP, which runs XP Pro 32bit, no problems whatsoever. I'm probably not the only one.
OP even responded with his own w7.64bit vs xp.32bit game fps findings. No significant differences. In theory and synthetically 64bit is much more powerful but in application, its not always a big deal.
That was a great lecture you wrote up but...
No its not simply a 32bit issue.
To stay on topic: Mods can also easily crash your game, what do you have installed? At the very least, post a crash log of your client crashing even if you play minecraft completely vanilla.
FASEworld | Capitalism, Hoooo! | Allods Yasker's Tower
Just clearing that up, not trying to say who's better just don't need misinformation.
edit:i see you bought your ram with good intentions. sorry for questioning
on another note, it is kind of ridiculous that our systems should be able to run it fine, but i think its more to do with java and its use of memory.
your 3.4 gigs of 16 gigs
The performance hit was horrendous with the early pre-release and SPhax excellent texture.
Plus that annoying tool tip saying Far is not for 32bit machines, once I found my 64bit disc I went back and loaded pre-release and it was obviously smoother.
So definitely give 64bit a try, my other game World of Tanks wouldn't even let me select Highest texture on 32bit.
-GaryTM
Wild shot in the dark here, but if the OS is only recognizing 3.5GB and let's say he has a dedicated 2 or even 3 GB's worth of RAM dedicated to Java, that may be why Minecraft is crashing. Mess around with your Java allocation settings, if you haven't already. Less is more with Minecraft if your running it Vanilla with no texture packs that is.
It was just a side effect of code being added on to the game. In some cases people are able to get away with 32-bit, but most do not. Here's the four options you should go through.
1. Don't play on the Far setting.
2. Try a mod like OptiFine and hope it somehow effects how far is processed. It's a stretch, but at least you don't have to buy anything.
3. Wait for an update. Problems like these were created on accident with updates. A new update might get rid of it again, however that may never happen.
4. Dual boot with your Windows 7. Use Xp whenever you want, but go into 7 when you play Minecraft. Heck you can even change 7's theme if you hate it so much. Also you can download different photo viewers and paint programs online, since you do not like the default.
These are the most obvious options I see, there might be other things you can do, but there is no harm in trying something out.
Minecraft runs pretty well under linux, and you'd be able to keep your old OS and stuff intact.
:dry.gif:
Really? You did this to a 16 GB machine? For what, a theme and .gif previews?
WindowsBlinds and Infranview would've solved your problems without having to downgrade.
Which means . . .
. . . nothing.
The amount of memory a world uses varies depending on what's in it, as well as whether or not he's running multiplayer.
Not to mention he may have his OS set up with different stuff running in the background. Things like Skype, instant messengers, file sync software, etc can all affect the memory load. Even the number of tabs he has open in his browser can affect it.
Also, memory models today are complex. We're talking about a virtual machine that layers on its own memory model on top of the existing memory model the OS provides. Does stuff blow up sometimes when you try to do this? Yup, sure does.
I would say give this a try.
Also try using Java 7.
It may be something as simple as Java not working well with Windows when it hits a page fault.
I see you failed to read the posts prior to yours.
I know that I cannot use all this RAM, I purchased it because I got a good deal on it and I thought I'd be using a 64-bit OS. I planned to give it some time, figure out how much RAM I'd like to be usable in my system, and put the extra to use as a RAMDisk for a bunch of stuff that could benefit from it.
Welcome to the thread, you'll find a bunch of people similar to you in here. :smile.gif:
This seems to be working so far, I've not been playing for long but I have started a single-player map and flew around very fast, which usually triggered the crash within 5 minutes if I flew in a straight line.
It helped a bit. Thanks for the suggestion.
Edit: After around two hours, the game has crashed, saying it has run out of memory.
This effectively prolonged the crash and the game was play-able until it crashed, whereas before the game would just freeze for 5 minutes or so then crash.
Still an improvement, it's funny how giving it less memory has helped it a bit.
Personally, I'd do a batch file to launch minecraft.jar . . .
Doing it via the control panel affects all Java apps, not just Minecraft.
Basically, it means the problem isn't due to total memory, it's due to how memory is being managed. If that's the case, upgrading back to Windows 7 may actually help, as memory management in Windows 7 is much improved over XP.
If you really want it to look like XP, grab a copy of WindowsBlinds. If you really want to see .gifs, I believe Infranview should work.
Personally, I don't see why you consider those two things drastic enough to warrant a downgrade, but whatever. IMO those are pretty minor compared to the benefits you get.
You could also try Java 7, which is much improved over Java 6 and may also fix memory management issues if the issues are in the JVM.
Minecraft only ever allocates 500mb, and never goes over half that. Debug information says memory counts up to 220mb and then resets to 100 every a few seconds. Something is definitely not right with how the current Minecraft handles memory, or how Minecraft-Java are working, unless the debug is outdated. Does Java use more than 2-3GB on your 64bit systems, 64bit people?
I get 2 whole cpu cores at 100% in the main menu as well? Its just bizarre.
I think all we can really do is wait around and hope Mojang acknowledges this is happening at least on a few systems =/
Yes, I have a 64 bit operating system, a Gateway 3 ghz dual core, with 4 gig of ram, Radeon HD 4250, Windows 7, tried both Java 6 and 7, not concurrently, both 64 bit and 32 bit, tired uninstalling 32 and just running with 64 and even then it doesn't work, and I have a bit (mostly outdated) computer savvy
Now that that's outa the way, I'm using Java 7, as if neither work, I might as well stay with the better one that doesn't. As such, I've set up my .bat file as such -
"C:\Program Files\Java\jre7\bin\javaw.exe" -Xmx2G -Xms1024M -cp C:\Users\MYNAME\AppData\Roaming\.minecraft\minecraft.exe"
pause
I've also tried similar with changing the target on the short cut. I've referenced about 20+ forum posts, websites, and been at this all afternoon. What am I doing wrong, or WTF is going on, on the off chance I'm not incompetent. :tongue.gif:
Thanks!