With an exp-based enchantment system, what's stopping us from building out Enchantment Tables outside the door to a zombie-spawner, for us to repeatedly fire arrows into from a safe place?
Hell, build a piston powered light switch in the ceiling, turn off the lights, kill everything. Turn the lights back on, go get your orbs. Repeat.
"for us to repeatedly fire arrows into from a safe place?"
Killing mobs with arrows = physically killing them.
He said NOTHING about a mob trap.
OP: As far as I can tell, no, there is nothing stopping us from just leaving
a one block hole in the side of a dungeon and swording everything to death
and collecting the orbs later.
The cool part about this is, you are able to decide that for yourself. Playing without power-stuff like this is even more satisfying if you could do it but restrain yourself from doing it
The cool part about this is, you are able to decide that for yourself. Playing without power-stuff like this is even more satisfying if you could do it but restrain yourself from doing it
Exactly. Playing the game is all about choice and if you want a bigger challenge, then you don't have to build a mob spawner. I don't see why OP is concerned with how other people play the game, especially when it doesn't affect his game.
I don't understand why anyone has problems with mobtraps in the first place. They might as well get rid of redstone since I can completely automate my farms as well, and I can even make elevators and water setups that could literally make it seem like I'm "on rails" and just have to right click a switch once in a while. That is the beauty of this game. An efficient mobtrap takes several days, that is no joke. They nerfed hostiles' spawning a bit too, so a 1 room mobtrap will not do you justice. You will likely use up a stack or two of iron meaning you have to spend a bit of time branch mining, you have to spend time making enough torches to light the whole room up, harvesting bread/etc. or running around killing cows and pigs and chickens, or even stop to build a breeding farm. You don't just go "I want a mobtrap, chop chop, done". Even then you can't hold down the left click and keep hitting mobs that come into range. Also, with bows you can't just spam anymore unless you like wasting arrows, so they've balanced it good enough. My mobtrap is the design on the wiki, to the T. 50x50x2, and one floor was netting me barely anything. It took several hours to get to level 15 - 20 and even then I'd have gone through a couple diamond swords and had to make a netherwart farm and fight a bunch of blazes as well. On top of that I had to make a bunch of fire-resist potions, all of this while expanding my vault room and having to harvest my farms and when the animals are ready to breed, breeding them and killing a few to keep lag from growing.
So all in all if on a pvp server that whole time gives someone a lot of time to scour the land looking for my name while I am pre-occupied with building up my resources. I still have to spend a lot of time branchmining and I spent a week real life time expanding the mobtrap to now be 5 floors. Even still it takes an hour or two, using potions of strength, and enchanted swords (wastes half of the levels I gain each time), etc. Squids spawn in packs it seems and sometimes a bunch of them come through the trap, slimes fall and die because I guess the water stops don't work to reduce the slimes fall damage, so right there I'm losing some mobs to get exp from. Skeletons hit you on mp easily thanks to the hitboxes and not being able to hit their feet to kill them, so you end up having to keep making armor as well, or moving out of sight so you can regen, etc.
For people like myself, once I get the mobtrap done I start working on making it better, and then building traps for people that might find the base. It gives me a few weeks of solid things to do regardless and once I have a bunch of loot stocked up I work on something else. I will go raid as well but I don't use hacks or anything so my stocked up resources really don't help. Even with bow and a bunch of arrows I end up usually needing to pull out the diamond sword and then depending on who has a better connection to the server, my armor and weps don't really matter. So what is the problem?
If mobtraps are "unbalanced" then enchants are too. Since mobtraps and enchants are optional, but the person who doesn't choose to utilize said tool will be at a small disatvantage on pvp/survival, it gives everyone something else to do. I still go exploring and fight mobs all over the place, but when my farms all need to be harvested or I'm mining I can run between doing all these things and I have mobs to kill for exp to enchant another pick, etc.
Seeing as how dungeons aren't easy to find, when someone does find it, it's perfectly fine for them to reap the rewards in whatever way they choose. A few pieces of bread or iron and string or gunpowder, buckets, a saddle, etc. is useless to me. Arrows, or spider eyes, etc. Even still I can't just afk and get the exp so i still basically have to fight the mobs on smp. Transporting them to me and being able to jump out of their sight is no different than running around at night and jumping behind a tree, or some other cover.
So to everyone their own but don't try to hinder the experience for those of us who find more entertainment building the mobtraps and stuff than using the drops and stuff. Also, I think it's a little more important that they work on implementing a real anti-cheat system because what is REALLY unbalanced is how all the people who didn't pay for the game and have hacked clients and grief teams/hackers can all join up and cause mayhem for everyone. Even with banning and stuff they still can get around it so lets maybe focus our complaints towards something that will benefit all of us who play the game without 3rd party cheats (on multiplayer, singleplayer is fine).
I don't understand why anyone has problems with mobtraps in the first place. They might as well get rid of redstone since I can completely automate my farms as well, and I can even make elevators and water setups that could literally make it seem like I'm "on rails" and just have to right click a switch once in a while. That is the beauty of this game. An efficient mobtrap takes several days, that is no joke. They nerfed hostiles' spawning a bit too, so a 1 room mobtrap will not do you justice. You will likely use up a stack or two of iron meaning you have to spend a bit of time branch mining, you have to spend time making enough torches to light the whole room up, harvesting bread/etc. or running around killing cows and pigs and chickens, or even stop to build a breeding farm. You don't just go "I want a mobtrap, chop chop, done". Even then you can't hold down the left click and keep hitting mobs that come into range. Also, with bows you can't just spam anymore unless you like wasting arrows, so they've balanced it good enough. My mobtrap is the design on the wiki, to the T. 50x50x2, and one floor was netting me barely anything. It took several hours to get to level 15 - 20 and even then I'd have gone through a couple diamond swords and had to make a netherwart farm and fight a bunch of blazes as well. On top of that I had to make a bunch of fire-resist potions, all of this while expanding my vault room and having to harvest my farms and when the animals are ready to breed, breeding them and killing a few to keep lag from growing.
So all in all if on a pvp server that whole time gives someone a lot of time to scour the land looking for my name while I am pre-occupied with building up my resources. I still have to spend a lot of time branchmining and I spent a week real life time expanding the mobtrap to now be 5 floors. Even still it takes an hour or two, using potions of strength, and enchanted swords (wastes half of the levels I gain each time), etc. Squids spawn in packs it seems and sometimes a bunch of them come through the trap, slimes fall and die because I guess the water stops don't work to reduce the slimes fall damage, so right there I'm losing some mobs to get exp from. Skeletons hit you on mp easily thanks to the hitboxes and not being able to hit their feet to kill them, so you end up having to keep making armor as well, or moving out of sight so you can regen, etc.
For people like myself, once I get the mobtrap done I start working on making it better, and then building traps for people that might find the base. It gives me a few weeks of solid things to do regardless and once I have a bunch of loot stocked up I work on something else. I will go raid as well but I don't use hacks or anything so my stocked up resources really don't help. Even with bow and a bunch of arrows I end up usually needing to pull out the diamond sword and then depending on who has a better connection to the server, my armor and weps don't really matter. So what is the problem?
If mobtraps are "unbalanced" then enchants are too. Since mobtraps and enchants are optional, but the person who doesn't choose to utilize said tool will be at a small disatvantage on pvp/survival, it gives everyone something else to do. I still go exploring and fight mobs all over the place, but when my farms all need to be harvested or I'm mining I can run between doing all these things and I have mobs to kill for exp to enchant another pick, etc.
Seeing as how dungeons aren't easy to find, when someone does find it, it's perfectly fine for them to reap the rewards in whatever way they choose. A few pieces of bread or iron and string or gunpowder, buckets, a saddle, etc. is useless to me. Arrows, or spider eyes, etc. Even still I can't just afk and get the exp so i still basically have to fight the mobs on smp. Transporting them to me and being able to jump out of their sight is no different than running around at night and jumping behind a tree, or some other cover.
So to everyone their own but don't try to hinder the experience for those of us who find more entertainment building the mobtraps and stuff than using the drops and stuff. Also, I think it's a little more important that they work on implementing a real anti-cheat system because what is REALLY unbalanced is how all the people who didn't pay for the game and have hacked clients and grief teams/hackers can all join up and cause mayhem for everyone. Even with banning and stuff they still can get around it so lets maybe focus our complaints towards something that will benefit all of us who play the game without 3rd party cheats (on multiplayer, singleplayer is fine).
There is a huge difference between running around at night hunting mobs and having them transported to your personal bunker. When running around at night, you take the chance of taking damage or over-doing it and getting killed. When the mobs get transported by game mechanics to your personal bunker there is zero chance of you getting hurt unless you did a really bad job building your bunker. Plus, your kill count will be lower if you run around at night killing mobs versus sitting in one spot completely protected from everything killing mobs brought right to you.
If mob traps/grinders were not a problem on multiplayer servers, no one would ever ban them, but they do because they are.
Enchants are part of the game, they were intended features of the game. Mob traps are not a feature of the game, they are not intended game design. They are created by players who exploit game mechanics to give themselves an advantage in the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
There is a huge difference between running around at night hunting mobs and having them transported to your personal bunker. When running around at night, you take the chance of taking damage or over-doing it and getting killed. When the mobs get transported by game mechanics to your personal bunker there is zero chance of you getting hurt unless you did a really bad job building your bunker. Plus, your kill count will be lower if you run around at night killing mobs versus sitting in one spot completely protected from everything killing mobs brought right to you.
If mob traps/grinders were not a problem on multiplayer servers, no one would ever ban them, but they do because they are.
Enchants are part of the game, they were intended features of the game. Mob traps are not a feature of the game, they are not intended game design. They are created by players who exploit game mechanics to give themselves an advantage in the game.
Yeah, but what's wrong with that? Have you ever played with Yun in 3rd Strike?
Yeah, but what's wrong with that? Have you ever played with Yun in 3rd Strike?
What's wrong with what? Exploiting game mechanics?
I'm not a console gamer, and I generally don't play Street Fighter games, so...no.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
What with the erratic spawning of mobs, I have to wait a whole minute for even a single zombie to pop out of my monster spawner, so I usually don't get jack squat out of them.
Going to the nether and killing 5+ pigmen hordes nets me more experience, and some gold for power rails, so I rarely visit the spawner.
Because of how rare they are, I don't think it is exploiting at all. Finding a dungeon has its rewards. Unlimited monsters is one of those rewards.
First : You need to kill them by yourself , so you can make a trap , where they can tmove but there is a hole for you to kill them.
It is not 100% fair , but if someone wants to do it , it is okay , they obviusly took time to find the spawner , and they will still damage their sword by killing them in that way , However , if they hacked , no challenge at all , then they are probably really really dumb , because what is the fun of a game without a little challenge?
I also have another video that I took of me getting from 45 to 52 in just a few mins. Granted, my minecraft was extremely lagged with the thousands of spawned skeletons in a single area but it's definitely a great way to get experience. I feel like mob spawners are a blessing and part of the game mechanics.
I always wanted to create a intricate series of tunnels for different mob spawners to dump into, and out into a labrynth that the player has to go through.
There is nothing stopping you, but it is very inefficient in one aspect, that of time. Now, a waterflow pushing spawned mobs into a pit with an overhead room to throw Harm/Heal pots down on spiders/zombies? That is efficient, as you can idle for an hour or two while waiting for the pit to fill, then throw a single pot and collect all the XP.
I have a mineshaft spider spawner close to my house... I keep it blocked off with a short tunnel leading to the spawner. When I want some extra xp I just open up the tunnel and kill the spiders as they come down it toward me.
Please don't respond to peoples replies if you haven't read them. In this case you didn't even finish the first paragraph.
You obviously did NOT read it either. I'm sorry, but you would not being saying this if you did. That post (if you can even call it that) was hardly legible. Not because of the spelling mistakes, but the poor grammar and sentence structure. It‘d be like if I went around saying; hate would be my word of choice if nerfed are mob grinders come to be. Yeah, the dude can “spell” but that isn’t a proper sentence, and that isn’t proper grammar.
And yes, granted, I am exaggerating in some parts, I still believe sentences like this “So all in all if on a pvp server that whole time gives someone a lot of time to scour the land looking for my name while I am pre-occupied with building up my resources.” are not capable of truly being “understood”. I mean I doubt I am the only one who thinks “the whole time of a lot of time does not make any sense“? So please don’t go posting telling someone to understand something that isn’t even technically “English”.
Not that I am saying the man didn’t understand, he was merely addressing the opening of the post saying that mob grinders are not a fundamental part of the game, unlike the enchantment system which is. Which has many valid points because this is something that is a benefit where it is not intended to be. How can someone argue that because you had to work to obtain this exploit, it is fair? It still shifts balance and ruins all of the alternatives to gaining exp if done properly. That is like saying if there is a way to earn an automated diamond mining system, but you have to do a month of chores to get it, it’s “fair”. No, it isn’t. Not in competitive play. Not if everyone else on the server had to grind for 100 hours to have godlike armour while you only had to wait 2 hours every time you wanted a new set.
It’s not fair because the average jack off is going to be playing fair and take his fifty hours to get to level fifty, while the guy who got extremely lucky and found two spawners very close together and upgraded the place to be some super great mob farm. Now every time he wants a level fifty enchantment he only has to take 5 hours because his really efficient mob farm, and the other guy is stuck spending 50 hours. And yeah, it’s “fair” because the guy took 100 hours to make the mob farm is what you might say, but no, most people make the mob farm to save time in the long run. They plan to use that mob farm so much that they save a HUGE amount of time in the long run. The ONLY thing the exploit has given them is a huge time saver, not a well deserved advantage.
And the end result is everyone just ends up building the automated mob farm because it is more efficient and superior to doing stuff the normal way. Then suddenly minecraft becomes a game of camping in your house 10,000 blocks away from everyone else until you have power grinded enough and you come out with your super enchantments against other players who didn’t want to waste the 100 hours making their mob farm. You win all the time now with your diamond armour enchanted with protection IV because you’re so awesome… or it could just be because you sat in a pit killing weakened mobs all day, and it’s okay because you had to work for it once right?
Hell, build a piston powered light switch in the ceiling, turn off the lights, kill everything. Turn the lights back on, go get your orbs. Repeat.
"for us to repeatedly fire arrows into from a safe place?"
Killing mobs with arrows = physically killing them.
He said NOTHING about a mob trap.
OP: As far as I can tell, no, there is nothing stopping us from just leaving
a one block hole in the side of a dungeon and swording everything to death
and collecting the orbs later.
Exactly. Playing the game is all about choice and if you want a bigger challenge, then you don't have to build a mob spawner. I don't see why OP is concerned with how other people play the game, especially when it doesn't affect his game.
Because some people want to waggle their e-phallus around and say "NAH NAH NAH I got a bigger score then you!".
So all in all if on a pvp server that whole time gives someone a lot of time to scour the land looking for my name while I am pre-occupied with building up my resources. I still have to spend a lot of time branchmining and I spent a week real life time expanding the mobtrap to now be 5 floors. Even still it takes an hour or two, using potions of strength, and enchanted swords (wastes half of the levels I gain each time), etc. Squids spawn in packs it seems and sometimes a bunch of them come through the trap, slimes fall and die because I guess the water stops don't work to reduce the slimes fall damage, so right there I'm losing some mobs to get exp from. Skeletons hit you on mp easily thanks to the hitboxes and not being able to hit their feet to kill them, so you end up having to keep making armor as well, or moving out of sight so you can regen, etc.
For people like myself, once I get the mobtrap done I start working on making it better, and then building traps for people that might find the base. It gives me a few weeks of solid things to do regardless and once I have a bunch of loot stocked up I work on something else. I will go raid as well but I don't use hacks or anything so my stocked up resources really don't help. Even with bow and a bunch of arrows I end up usually needing to pull out the diamond sword and then depending on who has a better connection to the server, my armor and weps don't really matter. So what is the problem?
If mobtraps are "unbalanced" then enchants are too. Since mobtraps and enchants are optional, but the person who doesn't choose to utilize said tool will be at a small disatvantage on pvp/survival, it gives everyone something else to do. I still go exploring and fight mobs all over the place, but when my farms all need to be harvested or I'm mining I can run between doing all these things and I have mobs to kill for exp to enchant another pick, etc.
Seeing as how dungeons aren't easy to find, when someone does find it, it's perfectly fine for them to reap the rewards in whatever way they choose. A few pieces of bread or iron and string or gunpowder, buckets, a saddle, etc. is useless to me. Arrows, or spider eyes, etc. Even still I can't just afk and get the exp so i still basically have to fight the mobs on smp. Transporting them to me and being able to jump out of their sight is no different than running around at night and jumping behind a tree, or some other cover.
So to everyone their own but don't try to hinder the experience for those of us who find more entertainment building the mobtraps and stuff than using the drops and stuff. Also, I think it's a little more important that they work on implementing a real anti-cheat system because what is REALLY unbalanced is how all the people who didn't pay for the game and have hacked clients and grief teams/hackers can all join up and cause mayhem for everyone. Even with banning and stuff they still can get around it so lets maybe focus our complaints towards something that will benefit all of us who play the game without 3rd party cheats (on multiplayer, singleplayer is fine).
There is a huge difference between running around at night hunting mobs and having them transported to your personal bunker. When running around at night, you take the chance of taking damage or over-doing it and getting killed. When the mobs get transported by game mechanics to your personal bunker there is zero chance of you getting hurt unless you did a really bad job building your bunker. Plus, your kill count will be lower if you run around at night killing mobs versus sitting in one spot completely protected from everything killing mobs brought right to you.
If mob traps/grinders were not a problem on multiplayer servers, no one would ever ban them, but they do because they are.
Enchants are part of the game, they were intended features of the game. Mob traps are not a feature of the game, they are not intended game design. They are created by players who exploit game mechanics to give themselves an advantage in the game.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
Yeah, but what's wrong with that? Have you ever played with Yun in 3rd Strike?
Remember: cannibalism is always an option.
What's wrong with what? Exploiting game mechanics?
I'm not a console gamer, and I generally don't play Street Fighter games, so...no.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
Going to the nether and killing 5+ pigmen hordes nets me more experience, and some gold for power rails, so I rarely visit the spawner.
Because of how rare they are, I don't think it is exploiting at all. Finding a dungeon has its rewards. Unlimited monsters is one of those rewards.
gargamel: http://www.gamefront.com/files/22576198/gargamel Converted.zip Glacier: PM Me
It is not 100% fair , but if someone wants to do it , it is okay , they obviusly took time to find the spawner , and they will still damage their sword by killing them in that way , However , if they hacked , no challenge at all , then they are probably really really dumb , because what is the fun of a game without a little challenge?
It may, a lot of people don't like fighting but want enchantments, that could be a way around combat.
part 2:
I always wanted to create a intricate series of tunnels for different mob spawners to dump into, and out into a labrynth that the player has to go through.
You obviously did NOT read it either. I'm sorry, but you would not being saying this if you did. That post (if you can even call it that) was hardly legible. Not because of the spelling mistakes, but the poor grammar and sentence structure. It‘d be like if I went around saying; hate would be my word of choice if nerfed are mob grinders come to be. Yeah, the dude can “spell” but that isn’t a proper sentence, and that isn’t proper grammar.
And yes, granted, I am exaggerating in some parts, I still believe sentences like this “So all in all if on a pvp server that whole time gives someone a lot of time to scour the land looking for my name while I am pre-occupied with building up my resources.” are not capable of truly being “understood”. I mean I doubt I am the only one who thinks “the whole time of a lot of time does not make any sense“? So please don’t go posting telling someone to understand something that isn’t even technically “English”.
Not that I am saying the man didn’t understand, he was merely addressing the opening of the post saying that mob grinders are not a fundamental part of the game, unlike the enchantment system which is. Which has many valid points because this is something that is a benefit where it is not intended to be. How can someone argue that because you had to work to obtain this exploit, it is fair? It still shifts balance and ruins all of the alternatives to gaining exp if done properly. That is like saying if there is a way to earn an automated diamond mining system, but you have to do a month of chores to get it, it’s “fair”. No, it isn’t. Not in competitive play. Not if everyone else on the server had to grind for 100 hours to have godlike armour while you only had to wait 2 hours every time you wanted a new set.
It’s not fair because the average jack off is going to be playing fair and take his fifty hours to get to level fifty, while the guy who got extremely lucky and found two spawners very close together and upgraded the place to be some super great mob farm. Now every time he wants a level fifty enchantment he only has to take 5 hours because his really efficient mob farm, and the other guy is stuck spending 50 hours. And yeah, it’s “fair” because the guy took 100 hours to make the mob farm is what you might say, but no, most people make the mob farm to save time in the long run. They plan to use that mob farm so much that they save a HUGE amount of time in the long run. The ONLY thing the exploit has given them is a huge time saver, not a well deserved advantage.
And the end result is everyone just ends up building the automated mob farm because it is more efficient and superior to doing stuff the normal way. Then suddenly minecraft becomes a game of camping in your house 10,000 blocks away from everyone else until you have power grinded enough and you come out with your super enchantments against other players who didn’t want to waste the 100 hours making their mob farm. You win all the time now with your diamond armour enchanted with protection IV because you’re so awesome… or it could just be because you sat in a pit killing weakened mobs all day, and it’s okay because you had to work for it once right?