Well, it looks like I should get to work on updating a certain list...
Survival mode isn't about avoiding death. It's about harvesting resources and building cool **** while there are things in the map that can kill you. If you just want to survive and do nothing else, then dig yourself a hole, cover it up, and never do anything in MC ever again. Yay! You're winning!
Hmmm...
You know, there's always creative mode. And there will most definitely be mods to turn off hunger bars and experience points. What's the big deal? And I'm sure you'll update at some point - well, I assume you will - because future updates will continue to add more awesome stuff that you won't want to miss (but again, that's just an assumption on my part).
Really, what's so bad about the hunger bar? It's very easy to keep up and even keeps you healthy. One might argue that food is actually more efficient now, since you can heal more over time with a single piece of food than you used to do so instantaneously.
This guy sounds like he writes reviews of some sort. This isn't in the normal style of ranting about something. I feel like i'm reading an article on cracked.com or something...
He respects grammar and is a decent writer. I'm cool with reading this sort of rant :smile.gif: Better than a string of curse words and typing that resembles bashing your head against the keyboard.
I agree with you entirely. The hunger system is better left as a mod and experience should not be in the game period. Another point I would like to add is that Notch has added experience to the game, meanwhile forgetting that the game already has achievements which are few. I would much rather have 10 more achievements than experience added to the game. If you want to get experience and level up, play Runescape. You should realize that gaining experience becomes repetitive, mindless, and boring very soon(once again, Runescape). What Notch should do is simply work on optimizing the game before adding more useless content.
You do realize he added a few achievements, right? And experience is not yet fully implemented, so far it does nothing, don't say that gaining experience gets repetitive just because you don't like it. Somepeople like gaining experience more than any other type of gaming. If you don't like the experience then don't play the game in order to get experience, if you want to just solely build then play creative. The beauty of Minecraft is that no matter what Notch adds, you can just ignore it and play it the way you want to, never have I seen him do something that forced you into using it. Hell, the biggest reason I've been playing minecraft was to just ignore the survival game and just used a flatland map to build redstone with. It doesn't matter how you play, it's still going to be Minecraft.
You make a good point, even if we don't agree with his views he put alot of time into thinking about them and making sure that it was clear, thorough, and well written. His reasoning behind not liking 1.8 is fine, he doesn't have to like it. Anything that we have to say is just that we think you can still play the way you want to. He just simply doesn't like the things Notch decided to add.
I hear your points and I will give you valid reasons why both your points (experience, and hunger) are horrible reasons for not playing 1.8.
Hunger, honestly the game is a lot more simpler with the update. Most times, it is easier to eat to keep my hunger up to slowly replenish life than it is to have just life and the lose of life. I actually eat less with the hunger changes to the game. Not to mention I don't worry about fighting with armor now. I believe it makes the game easier and if you recognize how you play you will see that you don't worry too much about running into mobs. I find myself worrying less and less each map about my life and damage. Pre 1.8 I would only ever play with peace mode on because I hated trying to find food. Only pigs dropped food. Now every animal under the sun drops food and there is always plenty of animals. The mobs I kill for fun now become just another way to gain food. You gave no real valid point to why it is bad except some example that only "no one uses a mod" and that is just barely a good reason. It doesn't make it more real imo...real would be you NEED sleep, and food in life, but you get hit with a baseball bat, no amount of food is going to heal you. An example of real would be hit by an arrow, break out the medical kit. Wrap up your arm and hope you don't get hit in the head or heart. THink of it like this. in 1.7 you start a new map, and instantly go caving. YOu get hit a few times and your life is dwindling. No food, one more hit dead. In 1.8 same scenario. YOu get hit a few times, your hunger is still full and your life replenishes. You get hit more times, life replenishes. Hunger drops 2 bars, hit more times, life still replenishes. You have survived three times as long with no food even on the hunger system, and but loads of mobs killed you most likely picked up rooting flesh which will put your hunger full bar...replenishing your life. You give no good reason.
Experience, don't like it, thats fine. Its not like you need experience to mine diamond or build a crafting table. Honestly right now it is useless, and because it is useless you shouldn't even have it on your list of things you don't like. Just ignore it. Even when it becomes useful and you gain special skills for levels and what not, you could still ignore it and you would still have the same game. I don't see why you would complain about a feature that is similar to rain. Sure rain is present in the game but it is not like if you don't have a door installed on your fort it will get flooded and thus rain sucks. Rain does absolutely nothing but add to atmosphere. Experience does even less. It drops some green orbs and you collect them. Nothing actually happens and your ability to build a mansion is not hindered in anyway.
Go ahead and flame me. But this is fact and logic at work. With the new hunger and mobs dropping loads of food, it is much better than it was before. THe experience is a moot argument because there is no function to experience.
PS, food stacks, drops practically 2 per mob. How can you not have food just randomly killing the first 5 mobs you come across. Way too easy. I kill a few mobs just going tree to tree for wood.
You make a good point, even if we don't agree with his views he put alot of time into thinking about them and making sure that it was clear, thorough, and well written. His reasoning behind not liking 1.8 is fine, he doesn't have to like it. Anything that we have to say is just that we think you can still play the way you want to. He just simply doesn't like the things Notch decided to add.
not to be mean or a tool, but I didn't find it well thought out at all. Just someone who was pissed for changes and wanted to voice his/her opinion. I get he said he doesn't mind change, but his reasons for not liking the changes aren't exactly good reasons at all. But I respect his and your opinion. Not trying to be a jerk.
Once you get past the circular reasoning, fallacies, vitriol, hyperbole, and poor attempts at humor, you'll see this for what it is: A longer version of the hundreds of "1.8 sucks" rants.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger.
The OP sure is making some sweeping generalizations. Ignoring that, I will say I do agree with him on some points, if for different reasons.
For one, hunger as of now is poorly implemented. In the early game it's sometimes too difficult to find food, especially when you start in the worst of environments peace of crap ocean biome. Just as bad is the fact that you need to constantly maintain you food stores. So between relying on luck and being stuck with chores, the game could get frustrating and boring quickly. Hell, otherwise difficult games that had a hunger system (such as, oh, every roguelikes out there) are more lenient than Minecraft is currently in this subject.
EXP and levels are also things I'm not very fond of. Hopefully there will be a way to turn it off, cause I'm really not up for grinding beyond finding diamonds and other rare items.
Aside from that, I want to address people that are arguing realism as a good reason for adding hunger into Minecraft. It's not a good reason. We're not using a reality simulator, we're playing a game. Who cares about how close to life a certain aspect of a game is. If said aspect is implemented in a manner which doesn't present itself as a fair challenge nor for entertainmet, and conversely, is implemented in a manner most tedious and frustrating, that certain aspect should be changed or removed entirely.
Hunger, honestly the game is a lot more simpler with the update. Most times, it is easier to eat to keep my hunger up to slowly replenish life than it is to have just life and the lose of life. I actually eat less with the hunger changes to the game. Not to mention I don't worry about fighting with armor now. I believe it makes the game easier and if you recognize how you play you will see that you don't worry too much about running into mobs. I find myself worrying less and less each map about my life and damage. Pre 1.8 I would only ever play with peace mode on because I hated trying to find food. Only pigs dropped food. Now every animal under the sun drops food and there is always plenty of animals. The mobs I kill for fun now become just another way to gain food. You gave no real valid point to why it is bad except some example that only "no one uses a mod" and that is just barely a good reason. It doesn't make it more real imo...real would be you NEED sleep, and food in life, but you get hit with a baseball bat, no amount of food is going to heal you. An example of real would be hit by an arrow, break out the medical kit. Wrap up your arm and hope you don't get hit in the head or heart. THink of it like this. in 1.7 you start a new map, and instantly go caving. YOu get hit a few times and your life is dwindling. No food, one more hit dead. In 1.8 same scenario. YOu get hit a few times, your hunger is still full and your life replenishes. You get hit more times, life replenishes. Hunger drops 2 bars, hit more times, life still replenishes. You have survived three times as long with no food even on the hunger system, and but loads of mobs killed you most likely picked up rooting flesh which will put your hunger full bar...replenishing your life. You give no good reason.
Now, in regards to experience, I have to disagree with you. Does an RPG have you lose all of your experience upon death? Like I have said a couple times before, I extremely doubt that there will be anything close to a skill tree, imagine picking skills with each life. I have also said this before, but imagine (or at least I imagine EXP to be this way in MC) experience like killstreaks in CoD. You get temporarily rewarded for surviving a barrage of creepers, skeletons, and zombies. It isn't for grinding mobs for 4 hours.
Oh look, another disgruntled gamer upset over a change in a game they play. Gee look how utterly surprised I am that this gamer obviously thinks he knows better then the rest of us about what a good game is. I like the hunger bar. Combat used to be retardedly easy as long as you had a few chops on hand...now? Now you have to be careful and this makes combating swarms of foes fun for me (note I said for me, as in personal opinion.)
As for experience? Not even fully implemented so everything you bitched about is pure speculation and thus should be disregarded as anything but.
not to be mean or a tool, but I didn't find it well thought out at all. Just someone who was pissed for changes and wanted to voice his/her opinion. I get he said he doesn't mind change, but his reasons for not liking the changes aren't exactly good reasons at all. But I respect his and your opinion. Not trying to be a jerk.
I think that his points were well thought out because he gave his reasons in a nice way. If you read my posts you would know I said that we all still say his points are wrong. Secondly, it's quite clear that he was just pissed off and ranting but he did so in a mature way. I will say it again, he just doesn't like the additions and thinks that everyone plays Minecraft the same way. He can't see that he can just ignore the additions and play it the exact same way he did before. In fact, you seem to be slightly cross and are making it very clear in a very rude way, what with all your cursing.
Well, it looks like I should get to work on updating a certain list...
We may need a list too...things you say that nobody cares about. Sure there are threads out there that someone might disagree with, or they are there to troll, or they are just whining, but yours are truly in a category of 'crap nobody in the game cares about'...you are never going past 1.7...that affects NOONE, it spurs NO DEBATE, it is useful information in NO WAY. Also, you are adding people to some "list"...a COMPLETELY WORTHLESS bit of information...not even exaggerating, it is 100% worthless.
If you disagree, go ahead and make your opinion known...maybe go out on a ledge and back it up with facts and start a conversation, otherwise keep your stupidity to yourself. If your post was intended to be ANOTHER "boohoo 1.8 mades me sad" whining post, structure it as such and you can start a slew of flamewars (as all of the other ones have turned into) and your work is done. Right now it looks like you are pulling a "I am taking my ball and going home!" maneuver and hoping we talk you out of it...that is just a hair less pathetic than "Hey guyz, 1.8 haz ben out 4 lik 2hrz n I cant f1nd mi ru1nd fortes thingy,,,ken u find it fer mi?"...seriously...
in any case, have fun in your 1.7.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MINECRAFT IS IN BETA...WE ARE BETA-TESTING. it's platforming...not parkour <<
I think that his points were well thought out because he gave his reasons in a nice way. If you read my posts you would know I said that we all still say his points are wrong. Secondly, it's quite clear that he was just pissed off and ranting but he did so in a mature way. I will say it again, he just doesn't like the additions and thinks that everyone plays Minecraft the same way. He can't see that he can just ignore the additions and play it the exact same way he did before. In fact, you seem to be slightly cross and are making it very clear in a very rude way, what with all your cursing.
oh yes, my bad. He def did it in a nice way. But so many things in this world are wrapped in a "nice" wrapper and yet are covering up hate. Sorry, I usually don't read the other's post, just respond to the OP. Maybe dumb, but I don't have time to read everything. You are right. He definitely didn't do the same ol same ol, "OMG this game SUX now BC @notch did things that I hate." He went about it in a nice way. Sorry, I am a little cross as I don't see what he sees. And even though he said he is fine with "changes" his argument is basically about the fact that there is change. Even if that change actually goes against his argument (hunger system needing food even though food is EVERYWHERE, and experience being more about leveling even thought the experience doesn't change the gameplay at all.) His argument proves himself wrong.
He wants the game to be more about building and mining, and exploring, and complains about the changes, when in fact the changes either don't affect one's ability to build, mine, cave, etc or the changes actually assist in better building, mining, and caving. I don't see a valid argument, but that comes from a geek that sat on the debate team for years.
Basically what I was going to say with regards to hunger, if anything the game is more easy:
Now, in regards to experience, I have to disagree with you. Does an RPG have you lose all of your experience upon death? Like I have said a couple times before, I extremely doubt that there will be anything close to a skill tree, imagine picking skills with each life. I have also said this before, but imagine (or at least I imagine EXP to be this way in MC) experience like killstreaks in CoD. You get temporarily rewarded for surviving a barrage of creepers, skeletons, and zombies. It isn't for grinding mobs for 4 hours.
notch has already said that you will get skills based on leveling. Now you are right on the losing experience when you die. There is no game that does that....but this is not like any game come out before...it is much more. I don't know how notch and jeb will handle it in the future updates, but I am sure it will be balanced and work fine. I have no doubts.
K then, bye. Nobody needs to hear you ***** about 2 things that make the game more fun. Hunger=realism.
rather than, almost dead. eats pork. perfectly fine, you have to wait for your health to recover, which it does fast, adding a layer of challenge to fights. experience? until 1.9, bragging rights. go on servers and mock the n00b who can't catch that chicken he was chasing. after 1.9, you will be able to get things with it, like more health for example. but, instead you've hopped on the failboat and wasted a good 20 bucks. have fun playing with pistons while we're up to date and searching for strongholds. You have officially wasted your minecraft experience. neurotipig signing out.
I think, this complaint and many other's complaint is based on preconceived notions of what a game should be. There is no definition of whether this is a sandbox exploration world or RPG or mix. Notch never states or defines the game. Some of you see it as a Sandbox exploration game and find any aspects added that lend towards RPG as a threat to the game. Some find the RPG aspects added in not the same as other RPGs (preconceived notion) and thus find it a threat to what you believe an RPG should be like.
Point - don't try and fit minecraft into some box and look for default attributes based on some stereotype you have in mind. Notch is not the stereotype dev. He is unique, and has unique ideas for his game.
It seems that half of the people who've posted in this thread completely missed the fact that my points themselves were based entirely on principle, not on whether the changes made the game easier or harder.
I think, this complaint and many other's complaint is based on preconceived notions of what a game should be. There is no definition of whether this is a sandbox exploration world or RPG or mix. Notch never states or defines the game.
From minecraft.net...
"Minecraft is a game about placing blocks to build anything you can imagine. At night monsters come out, make sure to build a shelter before that happens."
Enjoy your daily serving of fail.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
416 stone 296 stone slab (150 blocks) 149 stone stairs (228 blocks)
Hmmm...
You know, there's always creative mode. And there will most definitely be mods to turn off hunger bars and experience points. What's the big deal? And I'm sure you'll update at some point - well, I assume you will - because future updates will continue to add more awesome stuff that you won't want to miss (but again, that's just an assumption on my part).
Really, what's so bad about the hunger bar? It's very easy to keep up and even keeps you healthy. One might argue that food is actually more efficient now, since you can heal more over time with a single piece of food than you used to do so instantaneously.
He respects grammar and is a decent writer. I'm cool with reading this sort of rant :smile.gif: Better than a string of curse words and typing that resembles bashing your head against the keyboard.
You do realize he added a few achievements, right? And experience is not yet fully implemented, so far it does nothing, don't say that gaining experience gets repetitive just because you don't like it. Somepeople like gaining experience more than any other type of gaming. If you don't like the experience then don't play the game in order to get experience, if you want to just solely build then play creative. The beauty of Minecraft is that no matter what Notch adds, you can just ignore it and play it the way you want to, never have I seen him do something that forced you into using it. Hell, the biggest reason I've been playing minecraft was to just ignore the survival game and just used a flatland map to build redstone with. It doesn't matter how you play, it's still going to be Minecraft.
I like it better than insta reneging health system of old, but that is just me.
You make a good point, even if we don't agree with his views he put alot of time into thinking about them and making sure that it was clear, thorough, and well written. His reasoning behind not liking 1.8 is fine, he doesn't have to like it. Anything that we have to say is just that we think you can still play the way you want to. He just simply doesn't like the things Notch decided to add.
Hunger, honestly the game is a lot more simpler with the update. Most times, it is easier to eat to keep my hunger up to slowly replenish life than it is to have just life and the lose of life. I actually eat less with the hunger changes to the game. Not to mention I don't worry about fighting with armor now. I believe it makes the game easier and if you recognize how you play you will see that you don't worry too much about running into mobs. I find myself worrying less and less each map about my life and damage. Pre 1.8 I would only ever play with peace mode on because I hated trying to find food. Only pigs dropped food. Now every animal under the sun drops food and there is always plenty of animals. The mobs I kill for fun now become just another way to gain food. You gave no real valid point to why it is bad except some example that only "no one uses a mod" and that is just barely a good reason. It doesn't make it more real imo...real would be you NEED sleep, and food in life, but you get hit with a baseball bat, no amount of food is going to heal you. An example of real would be hit by an arrow, break out the medical kit. Wrap up your arm and hope you don't get hit in the head or heart. THink of it like this. in 1.7 you start a new map, and instantly go caving. YOu get hit a few times and your life is dwindling. No food, one more hit dead. In 1.8 same scenario. YOu get hit a few times, your hunger is still full and your life replenishes. You get hit more times, life replenishes. Hunger drops 2 bars, hit more times, life still replenishes. You have survived three times as long with no food even on the hunger system, and but loads of mobs killed you most likely picked up rooting flesh which will put your hunger full bar...replenishing your life. You give no good reason.
Experience, don't like it, thats fine. Its not like you need experience to mine diamond or build a crafting table. Honestly right now it is useless, and because it is useless you shouldn't even have it on your list of things you don't like. Just ignore it. Even when it becomes useful and you gain special skills for levels and what not, you could still ignore it and you would still have the same game. I don't see why you would complain about a feature that is similar to rain. Sure rain is present in the game but it is not like if you don't have a door installed on your fort it will get flooded and thus rain sucks. Rain does absolutely nothing but add to atmosphere. Experience does even less. It drops some green orbs and you collect them. Nothing actually happens and your ability to build a mansion is not hindered in anyway.
Go ahead and flame me. But this is fact and logic at work. With the new hunger and mobs dropping loads of food, it is much better than it was before. THe experience is a moot argument because there is no function to experience.
Just my $0.02
not to be mean or a tool, but I didn't find it well thought out at all. Just someone who was pissed for changes and wanted to voice his/her opinion. I get he said he doesn't mind change, but his reasons for not liking the changes aren't exactly good reasons at all. But I respect his and your opinion. Not trying to be a jerk.
For one, hunger as of now is poorly implemented. In the early game it's sometimes too difficult to find food, especially when you start in the worst of environments
peace of crap ocean biome. Just as bad is the fact that you need to constantly maintain you food stores. So between relying on luck and being stuck with chores, the game could get frustrating and boring quickly. Hell, otherwise difficult games that had a hunger system (such as, oh, every roguelikes out there) are more lenient than Minecraft is currently in this subject.EXP and levels are also things I'm not very fond of. Hopefully there will be a way to turn it off, cause I'm really not up for grinding beyond finding diamonds and other rare items.
Aside from that, I want to address people that are arguing realism as a good reason for adding hunger into Minecraft. It's not a good reason. We're not using a reality simulator, we're playing a game. Who cares about how close to life a certain aspect of a game is. If said aspect is implemented in a manner which doesn't present itself as a fair challenge nor for entertainmet, and conversely, is implemented in a manner most tedious and frustrating, that certain aspect should be changed or removed entirely.
Now, in regards to experience, I have to disagree with you. Does an RPG have you lose all of your experience upon death? Like I have said a couple times before, I extremely doubt that there will be anything close to a skill tree, imagine picking skills with each life. I have also said this before, but imagine (or at least I imagine EXP to be this way in MC) experience like killstreaks in CoD. You get temporarily rewarded for surviving a barrage of creepers, skeletons, and zombies. It isn't for grinding mobs for 4 hours.
As for experience? Not even fully implemented so everything you bitched about is pure speculation and thus should be disregarded as anything but.
I think that his points were well thought out because he gave his reasons in a nice way. If you read my posts you would know I said that we all still say his points are wrong. Secondly, it's quite clear that he was just pissed off and ranting but he did so in a mature way. I will say it again, he just doesn't like the additions and thinks that everyone plays Minecraft the same way. He can't see that he can just ignore the additions and play it the exact same way he did before. In fact, you seem to be slightly cross and are making it very clear in a very rude way, what with all your cursing.
We may need a list too...things you say that nobody cares about. Sure there are threads out there that someone might disagree with, or they are there to troll, or they are just whining, but yours are truly in a category of 'crap nobody in the game cares about'...you are never going past 1.7...that affects NOONE, it spurs NO DEBATE, it is useful information in NO WAY. Also, you are adding people to some "list"...a COMPLETELY WORTHLESS bit of information...not even exaggerating, it is 100% worthless.
If you disagree, go ahead and make your opinion known...maybe go out on a ledge and back it up with facts and start a conversation, otherwise keep your stupidity to yourself. If your post was intended to be ANOTHER "boohoo 1.8 mades me sad" whining post, structure it as such and you can start a slew of flamewars (as all of the other ones have turned into) and your work is done. Right now it looks like you are pulling a "I am taking my ball and going home!" maneuver and hoping we talk you out of it...that is just a hair less pathetic than "Hey guyz, 1.8 haz ben out 4 lik 2hrz n I cant f1nd mi ru1nd fortes thingy,,,ken u find it fer mi?"...seriously...
in any case, have fun in your 1.7.
it's platforming...not parkour <<
oh yes, my bad. He def did it in a nice way. But so many things in this world are wrapped in a "nice" wrapper and yet are covering up hate. Sorry, I usually don't read the other's post, just respond to the OP. Maybe dumb, but I don't have time to read everything. You are right. He definitely didn't do the same ol same ol, "OMG this game SUX now BC @notch did things that I hate." He went about it in a nice way. Sorry, I am a little cross as I don't see what he sees. And even though he said he is fine with "changes" his argument is basically about the fact that there is change. Even if that change actually goes against his argument (hunger system needing food even though food is EVERYWHERE, and experience being more about leveling even thought the experience doesn't change the gameplay at all.) His argument proves himself wrong.
He wants the game to be more about building and mining, and exploring, and complains about the changes, when in fact the changes either don't affect one's ability to build, mine, cave, etc or the changes actually assist in better building, mining, and caving. I don't see a valid argument, but that comes from a geek that sat on the debate team for years.
notch has already said that you will get skills based on leveling. Now you are right on the losing experience when you die. There is no game that does that....but this is not like any game come out before...it is much more. I don't know how notch and jeb will handle it in the future updates, but I am sure it will be balanced and work fine. I have no doubts.
rather than, almost dead. eats pork. perfectly fine, you have to wait for your health to recover, which it does fast, adding a layer of challenge to fights. experience? until 1.9, bragging rights. go on servers and mock the n00b who can't catch that chicken he was chasing. after 1.9, you will be able to get things with it, like more health for example. but, instead you've hopped on the failboat and wasted a good 20 bucks. have fun playing with pistons while we're up to date and searching for strongholds. You have officially wasted your minecraft experience. neurotipig signing out.
Point - don't try and fit minecraft into some box and look for default attributes based on some stereotype you have in mind. Notch is not the stereotype dev. He is unique, and has unique ideas for his game.
From minecraft.net...
"Minecraft is a game about placing blocks to build anything you can imagine. At night monsters come out, make sure to build a shelter before that happens."
Enjoy your daily serving of fail.
416 stone
296 stone slab (150 blocks)
149 stone stairs (228 blocks)
794 total stone
1082 blackstone
174 blackstone slab (87 blocks)
52 blackstone stairs (78 blocks)
1247 total blackstone
(not counting drawbridges and portcullises)