"Contrary to popular belief when an Enderman dies holding a block the block seems to be destroyed without a trace, rather than being placed or dropped as an item. That means that often at dawn a certain number of blocks will be forever destroyed as the Endermen holding them are killed by sunlight. The same goes for when it rains and kills an Enderman with a block, or when an Enderman with a block falls into water, lava, collides with a cactus enough, or falls off a cliff.
So blocks aren't just being moved around. They're being deleted. Slowly, infrequently, but at a steady pace.
Over long periods of time (very long just like real erosion) a Minecraft map would theoretically become completely stripped down to bedrock in the chunks the player keeps loaded at night, with only a few areas like those covered in lava and water having any chance of avoiding complete erasure. "
I was angry about the winging i had the same problem with my mob tower
But i didn't complain i just fixed it
First of all, "winging", if anything, is the action of... adding wings to something? If you mean whining, write whining. It'll help being taken seriously.
Secondly, if I opened a thread, it wasn't just to get my personal problem solved, since, as I mentioned before, my problem is now solved (I use a mod). So that's out of the way. Enderman is no longer a problem to me and everything is fine. However, I'm concerned with the game and other people's experience with it, and I believe this ability is bad for the game and a real threat.
You think it's "whining" solely because you assume I am just like you and care only for myself and nobody and nothing else. Wrong assumption.
There is a famous mod out there to disable his ability to pick blocks up.
Also, mob traps were not meant to be.
Why not? If someone built a mob trap from scratch, dealing with creeper explosions, falls and zombies and other monsters to get it built, I think they've earned the right to keep it.
But you forget that Enderman doesn't choose to grief mob traps, they grief your nice house, they grief your farms, they grief your landscape all into an ugly mess of misplaced blocks and tree stumps with missing logs.
This isn't an argument about mob traps anyway, and frankly justifying the Enderman's existence so that it prevents mob traps from being built is a wholly retarded excuse because it's at the expense of everything else that has been built in minecraft. Mods are meant to enhance the game, not fix flaws in the game mechanics, so they are not a long term solution.
A bold affirmation supported by nothing, and certainly not common sense. To assume this, you'd have to first assume that Mojand had thought of all the things we could create within the game (useful or esthetic alike) and that they thought "this is ok, but this is not". A highly preposterous premise.
Anything you can make in Minecraft was meant to be. If you weren't meant to create something, you simply could not. I cannot build nuclear bombs in Minecraft, thus I am not meant to create them. It's all very logical.
The game gives you rules, and you play by them. It's impossible to break a rule without hacking, and mob traps aren't hacking, they're mastering the rules of the games toward a goal. Saying they're not meant to be is like saying "giant statues of Jesus Christ aren't meant to be". And if someone wants to build that? Why not? What does it matter to you what anyone does in their game? Do you hear me commenting on what you build? No, it's none of my business, and I don't see why I'd have anything to say about what you build. The same goes to you.
It may not occur to you, but many builders of traps don't do it for the items they get, but simply because it's a fun way to build systems involved with all the mechanics of the game, and it requires a lot of thinking, trial and error, that personally I found that more fun than building a static type of structure.
Lastly, if, as you say, they weren't meant to be, they would not exist. It's simple enough to alter the game so mob traps become useles; removing the drop would do it, and Mojang knows how to do this, since they did it with XP orbs, which don't drop when killed in a mob trap (and which I agree with 100%). That fact is proof that they could have done the same with regular drops, but chose not to, thus endorsing tacitly the existence of mob traps.
I was angry about the winging i had the same problem with my mob tower
But i didn't complain i just fixed it
That still does not address the Erosion problem.
We're still playing a Beta game. A big part of that is complaining about what we don't like so Notch knows what to keep, toss, or rework.
Now it's also true that with Beta comes the fact you sometimes have to start over and re-think your structures and strategies.
With the exception of spawning towers, you can protect most things by just putting a moat around it and making sure everything is well lit. I don't really find them to be particularly difficult, I actually rather like them. They just need to be tweaked a little bit.
IMHO Notch should limit them to only moving blocks which are 'breakable' by hand. They need more targeted behavior... for example make them seek out light sources like torches. Also, they need to spawn only rarely, or at least a lot less often than they do right now. (I think Notch intentionally turned them up so that everybody would get a taste)
If they really are destroying blocks on death instead of dropping them, that sounds like a bug which ought to be fixed.
If they really are destroying blocks on death instead of dropping them, that sounds like a bug which ought to be fixed.
They do, but it's not just upon death, it's also upon regular despawning. That means blocks will disappear gradually all the time. Far away from you, endermen pick up blocks, and if you move, or if they move, they disappear, taking blocks with them. In the long run, and God knows Minecraft is a long run sort of game, the land will be stripped down to bedrock. But it'll be a problem long before that: at first, esthetic (which is bad enough in my opinion), and then a very practical problem.
This whole erosion story just adds to the growing list of reasons why this issue needs to be adressed! I would vote for something along the lines of:
- No picking up of bedrock onder any circumstances.
- Endermen only pick up blocks when you stare at them or attack them, to get to you.
- If an enderman dies, it puts the block it carries down at the spot.
- There should be some kind of way to build a shelter where you are safe without needing big moats.
For the people who love endermen griefing and erosing their world as "part of their game" an option could be built in the world creator. Just like opting for strongholds and npc villages, endermen griefing could be checked or unchecked here.
I believe it it would be solved like this everybody can still play the way they like, so everybody can be a happy minecraftian!
I am an admin on two MC servers.(can I has cookie?) On each of these servers I have built with assistance, two mob grinders. Both are from bedrock to ceiling high. (25 spawn floors + 1 killing floor.) They are the classic square layout, with a drop shaft on each corner. One machine actually has a north and south wing on it for more spawn area.
No one would go near them in order to keep the Endermen away. So, I decided to see what would happen when I showed up there. Well, within 5 minutes of my arrival, all of my drop shafts, which are normally dry, were flooded. This pretty much shut the machine down. So, I climbed to the roof, broke through it and started to torch out each floor as I descended. I ran into a total of about 10 of the Endermen on the way down. They had grabbed blocks from the walls, ceilings and floors in a lot of levels.
Once the place was lit up, I (with help) simply changed the design of the spawn floors from 3-high to 2-high in all areas possible. (A LOT of blocks) we managed to get 5 floors done on the first night, the rest we did at our leisure.
I actually had a fun time doing it. I saw a problem, and solved it. At least until the next problem anyway.
I actually had a fun time doing it. I saw a problem, and solved it. At least until the next problem anyway.
Life is maintenance.
Since you enjoy maintenance duty, I would like to start a service where you fill in all the holes in buildings and fix up the landscape for users who send their maps to you. Please let me know when you would like to start.
"Contrary to popular belief when an Enderman dies holding a block the block seems to be destroyed without a trace, rather than being placed or dropped as an item. That means that often at dawn a certain number of blocks will be forever destroyed as the Endermen holding them are killed by sunlight. The same goes for when it rains and kills an Enderman with a block, or when an Enderman with a block falls into water, lava, collides with a cactus enough, or falls off a cliff.
So blocks aren't just being moved around. They're being deleted. Slowly, infrequently, but at a steady pace.
Over long periods of time (very long just like real erosion) a Minecraft map would theoretically become completely stripped down to bedrock in the chunks the player keeps loaded at night, with only a few areas like those covered in lava and water having any chance of avoiding complete erasure. "
Oh God, it's like universal heat death!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When no one was looking, the Endermen took forty blocks.
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
It may not occur to you, but many builders of traps don't do it for the items they get, but simply because it's a fun way to build systems involved with all the mechanics of the game, and it requires a lot of thinking, trial and error, that personally I found that more fun than building a static type of structure.
This.
I have a mob trap. I built it legitimately and without switching to Peaceful at any time (at times this was daunting, like when I discovered my initial design was incapable of killing spiders and I had to go in there and redesign... with it full of spiders). It was a lot of fun to build, especially since I took care not to read anyone else's mob trap designs.
It's gratifying to walk over to the collection area and see it full of stuff, especially since I still haven't come across a mob trap tutorial that is built the way mine is (there are certainly similar ones, but nothing close enough to call a "copy").
And then I walk away without picking up the drops, because why bother? I don't really need them, I still haven't used all the drops I got from killing monsters while building a tweaking the trap. Getting the drops was *never* the point.
I'm confused what is the difference between getting a mod to get rid of endermen abilities and other people getting a mod to prevent creepers from blowing up? Or to make TNT work the way it used to? It seems like a lot of people are horrified they would actually need to get a mod to make the game play exactly the way they want it to. Those other people had the same concerns everyone here is having. There is an aspect of gameplay they don't like/interferes with the way they want to play. Just cause the endermen is causing issues to some players doesn't make their problem special in that they specifically shouldn't have to mod to make it how they want. People who modded creepers and tnt weren't lazy, and people who don't want endermen aren't either. It's just not a part of gameplay they want. Some people enjoy the challenge of creepers and some don't mind the endermen chaos. It's a choice. There is a reason minecraft is becoming more mod friendly, it is an open game full of choice--part of that choice is modding. Much like the sims, minecraft has the online modding community and the game will often get ideas based on the popular mods existing. Disliking endermen isn't wrong, but demanding something to be changed that not everyone is frustrated with is kind of strange. I generally dislike mods myself unless they add to the world of minecraft(instead of making it easier) or fixing something I really don't enjoy. If I hated endermen, I'd be all over the mod. For now, I laugh at floating trees and random block abstract sculptures. But that's just me. :smile.gif: I think the endermen have serious potential, that hasn't been fully realized yet.
Almost everything is incomplete in 1.8 anyway, we are likely to see changes in 1.9 to endermen as well. So until then, mod away. I think they could really add something special to minecraft gameplay if they are tweaked a bit. If they don't recieve changes I'll likely eventually get a mod for them. Not to get rid of their block moving abilities, but one that could change the way they behave(like moving things into interesting shapes, and being able to get the block they are holding by killing them, like maybe the block appears as if placed wherever the enderman dies)
I'm confused what is the difference between getting a mod to get rid of endermen abilities and other people getting a mod to prevent creepers from blowing up? Or to make TNT work the way it used to?
Creepers and TNT don't blow themselves up.
There is an aspect of gameplay they don't like/interferes with the way they want to play.
It's arguable whether ender-griefing is even an aspect of gameplay. Unlike creepers and TNT, ender-griefing is disconnected from gameplay. It happens automatically, by itself, without player involvement.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/643768-enderman-erosion-the-effects-of-endermen-in-a-geological-time-frame/
"Contrary to popular belief when an Enderman dies holding a block the block seems to be destroyed without a trace, rather than being placed or dropped as an item. That means that often at dawn a certain number of blocks will be forever destroyed as the Endermen holding them are killed by sunlight. The same goes for when it rains and kills an Enderman with a block, or when an Enderman with a block falls into water, lava, collides with a cactus enough, or falls off a cliff.
So blocks aren't just being moved around. They're being deleted. Slowly, infrequently, but at a steady pace.
Over long periods of time (very long just like real erosion) a Minecraft map would theoretically become completely stripped down to bedrock in the chunks the player keeps loaded at night, with only a few areas like those covered in lava and water having any chance of avoiding complete erasure. "
A. They remove blocks if you've been bad. (just like creepers explosed only when provoked, or you are too close)
B. If you are nice to the endermen, they collectively don't pick up blocks anywhere in the world.
Maybe there is only ONE enderman at one time. That way its like he remembers you.
First of all, "winging", if anything, is the action of... adding wings to something? If you mean whining, write whining. It'll help being taken seriously.
Secondly, if I opened a thread, it wasn't just to get my personal problem solved, since, as I mentioned before, my problem is now solved (I use a mod). So that's out of the way. Enderman is no longer a problem to me and everything is fine. However, I'm concerned with the game and other people's experience with it, and I believe this ability is bad for the game and a real threat.
You think it's "whining" solely because you assume I am just like you and care only for myself and nobody and nothing else. Wrong assumption.
Why not? If someone built a mob trap from scratch, dealing with creeper explosions, falls and zombies and other monsters to get it built, I think they've earned the right to keep it.
But you forget that Enderman doesn't choose to grief mob traps, they grief your nice house, they grief your farms, they grief your landscape all into an ugly mess of misplaced blocks and tree stumps with missing logs.
This isn't an argument about mob traps anyway, and frankly justifying the Enderman's existence so that it prevents mob traps from being built is a wholly retarded excuse because it's at the expense of everything else that has been built in minecraft. Mods are meant to enhance the game, not fix flaws in the game mechanics, so they are not a long term solution.
A bold affirmation supported by nothing, and certainly not common sense. To assume this, you'd have to first assume that Mojand had thought of all the things we could create within the game (useful or esthetic alike) and that they thought "this is ok, but this is not". A highly preposterous premise.
Anything you can make in Minecraft was meant to be. If you weren't meant to create something, you simply could not. I cannot build nuclear bombs in Minecraft, thus I am not meant to create them. It's all very logical.
The game gives you rules, and you play by them. It's impossible to break a rule without hacking, and mob traps aren't hacking, they're mastering the rules of the games toward a goal. Saying they're not meant to be is like saying "giant statues of Jesus Christ aren't meant to be". And if someone wants to build that? Why not? What does it matter to you what anyone does in their game? Do you hear me commenting on what you build? No, it's none of my business, and I don't see why I'd have anything to say about what you build. The same goes to you.
It may not occur to you, but many builders of traps don't do it for the items they get, but simply because it's a fun way to build systems involved with all the mechanics of the game, and it requires a lot of thinking, trial and error, that personally I found that more fun than building a static type of structure.
Lastly, if, as you say, they weren't meant to be, they would not exist. It's simple enough to alter the game so mob traps become useles; removing the drop would do it, and Mojang knows how to do this, since they did it with XP orbs, which don't drop when killed in a mob trap (and which I agree with 100%). That fact is proof that they could have done the same with regular drops, but chose not to, thus endorsing tacitly the existence of mob traps.
That still does not address the Erosion problem.
We're still playing a Beta game. A big part of that is complaining about what we don't like so Notch knows what to keep, toss, or rework.
Now it's also true that with Beta comes the fact you sometimes have to start over and re-think your structures and strategies.
With the exception of spawning towers, you can protect most things by just putting a moat around it and making sure everything is well lit. I don't really find them to be particularly difficult, I actually rather like them. They just need to be tweaked a little bit.
IMHO Notch should limit them to only moving blocks which are 'breakable' by hand. They need more targeted behavior... for example make them seek out light sources like torches. Also, they need to spawn only rarely, or at least a lot less often than they do right now. (I think Notch intentionally turned them up so that everybody would get a taste)
If they really are destroying blocks on death instead of dropping them, that sounds like a bug which ought to be fixed.
They do, but it's not just upon death, it's also upon regular despawning. That means blocks will disappear gradually all the time. Far away from you, endermen pick up blocks, and if you move, or if they move, they disappear, taking blocks with them. In the long run, and God knows Minecraft is a long run sort of game, the land will be stripped down to bedrock. But it'll be a problem long before that: at first, esthetic (which is bad enough in my opinion), and then a very practical problem.
- No picking up of bedrock onder any circumstances.
- Endermen only pick up blocks when you stare at them or attack them, to get to you.
- If an enderman dies, it puts the block it carries down at the spot.
- There should be some kind of way to build a shelter where you are safe without needing big moats.
For the people who love endermen griefing and erosing their world as "part of their game" an option could be built in the world creator. Just like opting for strongholds and npc villages, endermen griefing could be checked or unchecked here.
I believe it it would be solved like this everybody can still play the way they like, so everybody can be a happy minecraftian!
No one would go near them in order to keep the Endermen away. So, I decided to see what would happen when I showed up there. Well, within 5 minutes of my arrival, all of my drop shafts, which are normally dry, were flooded. This pretty much shut the machine down. So, I climbed to the roof, broke through it and started to torch out each floor as I descended. I ran into a total of about 10 of the Endermen on the way down. They had grabbed blocks from the walls, ceilings and floors in a lot of levels.
Once the place was lit up, I (with help) simply changed the design of the spawn floors from 3-high to 2-high in all areas possible. (A LOT of blocks) we managed to get 5 floors done on the first night, the rest we did at our leisure.
I actually had a fun time doing it. I saw a problem, and solved it. At least until the next problem anyway.
Life is maintenance.
Since you enjoy maintenance duty, I would like to start a service where you fill in all the holes in buildings and fix up the landscape for users who send their maps to you. Please let me know when you would like to start.
Oh God, it's like universal heat death!
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
What the hell does randomly moving blocks and making circles on the ground accomplish?
It's so ****ing stupid, I'm literally stunned that Mojang is stupid enough to have implemented it.
This.
I have a mob trap. I built it legitimately and without switching to Peaceful at any time (at times this was daunting, like when I discovered my initial design was incapable of killing spiders and I had to go in there and redesign... with it full of spiders). It was a lot of fun to build, especially since I took care not to read anyone else's mob trap designs.
It's gratifying to walk over to the collection area and see it full of stuff, especially since I still haven't come across a mob trap tutorial that is built the way mine is (there are certainly similar ones, but nothing close enough to call a "copy").
And then I walk away without picking up the drops, because why bother? I don't really need them, I still haven't used all the drops I got from killing monsters while building a tweaking the trap. Getting the drops was *never* the point.
Yeah, silly beta testers thinking they should discuss new features they don't like. Posting on a forum, why is anyone doing it?
Almost everything is incomplete in 1.8 anyway, we are likely to see changes in 1.9 to endermen as well. So until then, mod away. I think they could really add something special to minecraft gameplay if they are tweaked a bit. If they don't recieve changes I'll likely eventually get a mod for them. Not to get rid of their block moving abilities, but one that could change the way they behave(like moving things into interesting shapes, and being able to get the block they are holding by killing them, like maybe the block appears as if placed wherever the enderman dies)
Creepers and TNT don't blow themselves up.
It's arguable whether ender-griefing is even an aspect of gameplay. Unlike creepers and TNT, ender-griefing is disconnected from gameplay. It happens automatically, by itself, without player involvement.