Minecraft is beautiful because it's full of possibilities and it gives us great freedom. If you begin taking that away, you begin killing minecraft slowly perhaps, but the end will be inevitable..
Its not detracting from your freedom, its putting alot more "survival" in survival mode. Minecraft is still a sandox, and morso than ever.
P.S. Don't complain about what you haven't tried, guys. We're BETA testers, and people forget that. The whole point is that we try out new features and find bugs to help maximize the overall experience at launch. If there was a feature that enough people hated, it would more than likely be removed in a later update.
Wow. Lots of really well thought out posts in this thread. :smile.gif:
I have to say that I rather like the hunger bar not being optional. It may be because I'm from a different age of gaming than most of the kids who play this game. I was born about a year or two before the launch of the original Nintendo Entertainment System, so don't be surprised when I say that games today are way too easy. Back in my day (lolimold), there were titles that presented nearly insurmountable challenges. I will cite one here. Ninja Gaiden (the original title for NES not xbox or ps3 or whathaveyou). This game is the stuff of nightmares. Don't believe me? Get it on an emulator and play through it without save states or cheats. I guarantee that most of you won't get half way through the game without a rage quit or two. When this happened, did we ***** and complain to the devs that the game was broken? No (the internet sucked hard back then)! We practiced, trained and honed our skills until the game was finished. This was an essential character building experience for me. It taught me perseverance and tenacity. Essential virtues, needed to survive in this world that we live in.
This, I believe, is what many modern games lack and it's also why I'm in favor of a mandatory hunger bar. It isn't even going to amp up the difficulty that much anyway. I really don't see a problem here. It's just another feature. If you try it out, I think you'll find that it's not as annoying/tedious/retarded as you think it is. If anything, I think you'll get a slightly better sense of fulfillment out of the game than you did before.
Gamers these days. You're all so soft. Everything is just handed to you and you still find reasons to complain. I really miss the days when gaming not only entertained you, but also helped shape you into a more intelligent/well rounded person. You kids need a real challenge. This mandatory hunger bar isn't it... But it's a step in the right direction.
Wow. Lots of really well thought out posts in this thread. :smile.gif:
I have to say that I rather like the hunger bar not being optional. It may be because I'm from a different age of gaming than most of the kids who play this game. I was born about a year or two before the launch of the original Nintendo Entertainment System, so don't be surprised when I say that games today are way too easy. Back in my day (lolimold), there were titles that presented nearly insurmountable challenges. I will cite one here. Ninja Gaiden (the original title for NES not xbox or ps3 or whathaveyou). This game is the stuff of nightmares. Don't believe me? Get it on an emulator and play through it without save states or cheats. I guarantee that most of you won't get half way through the game without a rage quit or two. When this happened, did we ***** and complain to the devs that the game was broken? No (the internet sucked hard back then)! We practiced, trained and honed our skills until the game was finished. This was an essential character building experience for me. It taught me perseverance and tenacity. Essential virtues, needed to survive in this world that we live in.
This, I believe, is what many modern games lack and it's also why I'm in favor of a mandatory hunger bar. It isn't even going to amp up the difficulty that much anyway. I really don't see a problem here. It's just another feature. If you try it out, I think you'll find that it's not as annoying/tedious/retarded as you think it is. If anything, I think you'll get a slightly better sense of fulfillment out of the game than you did before.
Gamers these days. You're all so soft. Everything is just handed to you and you still find reasons to complain. I really miss the days when gaming not only entertained you, but also helped shape you into a more intelligent/well rounded person. You kids need a real challenge. This mandatory hunger bar isn't it... But it's a step in the right direction.
This is what I've been trying to say all along. Honestly, people are lucky that there's a peaceful and creative mode, especially both in one game. As of now, nobody really knows the mechanics of the hunger bar, so they should wait for it to come and then give solid feedback. The feedback they give will probably be positively different to what it is now. If people start using the "get what I want" attitude, here are their smart options.
1. Get mods.
2. Play on creative OR peaceful. That's 2 options built in the game exclusively for people that want to play without challenges.
3. Play a different video game
4. Play legos
It is FACT. I can confirm, in an interview of Notch (it is him), that Hunger bar WILL NOT BE OPTIONAL AT ALL.
My opinion: I expected this. Notch as I've openly stated, does not know how to design games. He designs them like toys, they're fun, he wants them, he takes them and puts them into his little world. You don't exist, only he does. Simple really, whether we like it or not.
Please, be constructive in your flaming of this, and don't curse, rant, scream, but explain why you think this is a bad idea. :smile.gif:
As much as I respect you for being one of few who can give a negative opinion over the internet without being an ass, that was pretty ignorant. Just how much of a position are you in to say that Notch can't design games? He has done a great amount of listening and taken into account the players have asked for or suggested. But he, like any other game designer great or otherwise, has an overall set vision for his game. Emphasis on his game. A sense of realism (in certain areas of gameplay) and difficultly are a part of that. He's made that clear time and time before. No one should be surprised. Developers make the games they want to make and the players that like that type of game follow. Player input is important but there is a limit before it isn't the game the developer wants anymore.
If the way hunger is now really turns out to be unfavorable then I'm sure Notch will adjust it. It's still beta, things change. Don't like the challenges? Notch was nice enough to bring back creative mode as well. This way Notch is able to please those who were expecting the adventure side from the start and those who got into just building the way Minecraft is now. Though the in-between players who like building and adventure without having to worry too much about your character like an RPG may have a problem. Peaceful, easy, mods, adapt, or deal with it until notch makes an edit.
As far as I, notch is a great designer who does a lot more than some of the big studios out there. Saying Notch can't design a game is the wrong terminology you are looking for (or so it seems). He's just not making your dream game. He's making his teams. we just happen to like most of it and have a bit of a say. You will NEVER have your ideal game unless you make it yourself. So you'd best start studying C++ ;P
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"But it'll be a pretty sweet ride, up until that point" - Whywolf
Words to live by.
Hunger I can deal with. The big issue, to me, will be survival maps. Which often limit the food you can get at times as part of the map's balance and challenge. it will either cause the map to be needlessly difficult because you can't eat enough to keep hunger up or it will need to be made easier if the maker wanted to limit your food sources, so you won't starve.
I'm not going to freak out, Notch may change his mind and if not I'm sure someone will release a mod that makes hunger optional. I'm personally not going to use that mod because setting up wheat farms is easy, and food is now stack able. My issue is that the food update will ruin PVP and Vechs maps.
No, even better, lets turn it into dwarf fortress!
^ I'm with this guy.
On topic:
As mystify and others have said before, hunger is not just another difficulty to overcome; It is the basis for the new healing and energy system.
Hunger is not just a bar you must keep full to avoid dying. It gives rewards for having it full. It allows you to sprint - which also allows longer jump distance and a high-knockback attack - and also makes you heal when it is near being full.
Combat is no longer an eating contest with the new system. It requires you to be strategic and to think out how you will fight. You can't just charge in and eat pork or stew as fast as possible.
Personally, I am all for adding more survival elements to the game, as well as more sandbox elements.
As stated at the top of my post, I would like some dwarf fortress style things to be added, such as finite water and mechanical power.
Notch as I've openly stated, does not know how to design games.
I'll agree with that. I stated in a previous thread a mantra I follow seeing as how I design and do conceptual work for games myself. When you're looking at adding new features to an existing game that has had ample time to establish its own community and flavor, you have to be a little more careful than you do if you're making something brand new.
You have to look at every addition and ask yourself "If I add this, will there be a community-mod created to deactivate it or turn this feature off?". If the answer to that question is "YES" then you have to really take a look at why you think that might be. Hunger is retarded, it's out of place in Minecraft. If Hunger was a part of the game since day 1 there might not be so much animosity but it completely turns the existing concept of the game upside-down. It's simply yet another chore to keep up with, and the way health is restored is just ridiculous now.
You should never -- never -- design a game and be placid with knowing that all you're adding amounts to something someone is going to find a way to turn off. Hello? That's wasted effort and wasted time. If hunger is so broken and messed up right now all the time spent working on that worthless addition could have been funneled into other things like tweaking Endermen, etc.
I'm not going to sugar-coat anything, Mojang really dropped the ball with this update. There are some positives that came out with 1.8, but they are far far overshadowed by careless oversights on par with the lack of quality control exhibited by companies like EA and Activision these days.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The preceding user isn't fond of listening to mindless crap from other people.
WAIT A MINUTE! you have to survive in survival mode?!?!? WHY DOES NOONE TELL US THESE THINGS?!?!
Yeah, see it's easy to make petty jokes like that to make fun of the people complaining but if you'd look at the coherent and valid points raised by people who argue against the addition of the bar (or to at least make it only turn on when played on Normal or harder difficulties) you'd see there are some reasonable complains and viewpoints being offered.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The preceding user isn't fond of listening to mindless crap from other people.
you forget, breeding has been introduced, you kill all the pigs in an area you get none for a long long time
Its not detracting from your freedom, its putting alot more "survival" in survival mode. Minecraft is still a sandox, and morso than ever.
P.S. Don't complain about what you haven't tried, guys. We're BETA testers, and people forget that. The whole point is that we try out new features and find bugs to help maximize the overall experience at launch. If there was a feature that enough people hated, it would more than likely be removed in a later update.
Yeah, even after 1.8 someone will undoubtedly have a "no hunger" mod that you can get...
But seriously, just try it before you decide.
But unless you breed them, they won't respawn so you are forced to either farm, or die.
A question I have is if the hunger bar will regenerate on peaceful?
I have to say that I rather like the hunger bar not being optional. It may be because I'm from a different age of gaming than most of the kids who play this game. I was born about a year or two before the launch of the original Nintendo Entertainment System, so don't be surprised when I say that games today are way too easy. Back in my day (lolimold), there were titles that presented nearly insurmountable challenges. I will cite one here. Ninja Gaiden (the original title for NES not xbox or ps3 or whathaveyou). This game is the stuff of nightmares. Don't believe me? Get it on an emulator and play through it without save states or cheats. I guarantee that most of you won't get half way through the game without a rage quit or two. When this happened, did we ***** and complain to the devs that the game was broken? No (the internet sucked hard back then)! We practiced, trained and honed our skills until the game was finished. This was an essential character building experience for me. It taught me perseverance and tenacity. Essential virtues, needed to survive in this world that we live in.
This, I believe, is what many modern games lack and it's also why I'm in favor of a mandatory hunger bar. It isn't even going to amp up the difficulty that much anyway. I really don't see a problem here. It's just another feature. If you try it out, I think you'll find that it's not as annoying/tedious/retarded as you think it is. If anything, I think you'll get a slightly better sense of fulfillment out of the game than you did before.
Gamers these days. You're all so soft. Everything is just handed to you and you still find reasons to complain. I really miss the days when gaming not only entertained you, but also helped shape you into a more intelligent/well rounded person. You kids need a real challenge. This mandatory hunger bar isn't it... But it's a step in the right direction.
This is what I've been trying to say all along. Honestly, people are lucky that there's a peaceful and creative mode, especially both in one game. As of now, nobody really knows the mechanics of the hunger bar, so they should wait for it to come and then give solid feedback. The feedback they give will probably be positively different to what it is now. If people start using the "get what I want" attitude, here are their smart options.
1. Get mods.
2. Play on creative OR peaceful. That's 2 options built in the game exclusively for people that want to play without challenges.
3. Play a different video game
4. Play legos
As much as I respect you for being one of few who can give a negative opinion over the internet without being an ass, that was pretty ignorant. Just how much of a position are you in to say that Notch can't design games? He has done a great amount of listening and taken into account the players have asked for or suggested. But he, like any other game designer great or otherwise, has an overall set vision for his game. Emphasis on his game. A sense of realism (in certain areas of gameplay) and difficultly are a part of that. He's made that clear time and time before. No one should be surprised. Developers make the games they want to make and the players that like that type of game follow. Player input is important but there is a limit before it isn't the game the developer wants anymore.
If the way hunger is now really turns out to be unfavorable then I'm sure Notch will adjust it. It's still beta, things change. Don't like the challenges? Notch was nice enough to bring back creative mode as well. This way Notch is able to please those who were expecting the adventure side from the start and those who got into just building the way Minecraft is now. Though the in-between players who like building and adventure without having to worry too much about your character like an RPG may have a problem. Peaceful, easy, mods, adapt, or deal with it until notch makes an edit.
As far as I, notch is a great designer who does a lot more than some of the big studios out there. Saying Notch can't design a game is the wrong terminology you are looking for (or so it seems). He's just not making your dream game. He's making his teams. we just happen to like most of it and have a bit of a say. You will NEVER have your ideal game unless you make it yourself. So you'd best start studying C++ ;P
Words to live by.
^ I'm with this guy.
On topic:
As mystify and others have said before, hunger is not just another difficulty to overcome; It is the basis for the new healing and energy system.
Hunger is not just a bar you must keep full to avoid dying. It gives rewards for having it full. It allows you to sprint - which also allows longer jump distance and a high-knockback attack - and also makes you heal when it is near being full.
Combat is no longer an eating contest with the new system. It requires you to be strategic and to think out how you will fight. You can't just charge in and eat pork or stew as fast as possible.
Personally, I am all for adding more survival elements to the game, as well as more sandbox elements.
As stated at the top of my post, I would like some dwarf fortress style things to be added, such as finite water and mechanical power.
That and we all know that mods will be quickly released disabling the hungerbar and having it always full and what not.
Where did you pull that from?
And as a matter of fact Hunger does nothing in Peacful Mode that I've seen. In SSP Peacful the Hunger bar does not depelete.
I'll agree with that. I stated in a previous thread a mantra I follow seeing as how I design and do conceptual work for games myself. When you're looking at adding new features to an existing game that has had ample time to establish its own community and flavor, you have to be a little more careful than you do if you're making something brand new.
You have to look at every addition and ask yourself "If I add this, will there be a community-mod created to deactivate it or turn this feature off?". If the answer to that question is "YES" then you have to really take a look at why you think that might be. Hunger is retarded, it's out of place in Minecraft. If Hunger was a part of the game since day 1 there might not be so much animosity but it completely turns the existing concept of the game upside-down. It's simply yet another chore to keep up with, and the way health is restored is just ridiculous now.
You should never -- never -- design a game and be placid with knowing that all you're adding amounts to something someone is going to find a way to turn off. Hello? That's wasted effort and wasted time. If hunger is so broken and messed up right now all the time spent working on that worthless addition could have been funneled into other things like tweaking Endermen, etc.
I'm not going to sugar-coat anything, Mojang really dropped the ball with this update. There are some positives that came out with 1.8, but they are far far overshadowed by careless oversights on par with the lack of quality control exhibited by companies like EA and Activision these days.
The preceding user isn't fond of listening to mindless crap from other people.
it's platforming...not parkour <<
Yeah, see it's easy to make petty jokes like that to make fun of the people complaining but if you'd look at the coherent and valid points raised by people who argue against the addition of the bar (or to at least make it only turn on when played on Normal or harder difficulties) you'd see there are some reasonable complains and viewpoints being offered.
The preceding user isn't fond of listening to mindless crap from other people.