Ok, I'm probably going to be shot to hell over this...
But what everyone has been trying to say is that the MAJORITY of the senior members of Fan Art try to help other people. Yes, there are a few people who get their kicks by saying "Holie sh1t thi5 rP is gay an ur a no0b.", but most of us tell them, "Fix this, fix that," or in some extreme cases, "This RP will not go anywhere", due to the fact that the OP's skills are extremely lacking, whether it be in grammar, cognitive skills, or if the OP has a horrible attitude for criticism.
Quote from AYFTracks »
And criticism. Constructive criticism is welcomed. HOWEVER. I do not believe constructive criticism includes negative, repressive comments, with a small advice stuck to it. No, constructive criticism is genuine advice to help the artist grow in a POSITIVE manner. Destructive criticism is the same as flaming. This is the same for RPs. Such comments on RPs I consider as destructive, especially if it leads to requesting for the thread to be deleted.
This is all completely true and fair. But what is happening is that you are all nitpicking at the select few that say "God this RP is horrible go kill yourself", and completely ignoring those who offer constructive criticism. It's almost like, dare I say it, like you are looking specifically for the people who "bash" new people, and then bringing down the hand of God on everyone else for their actions.
Needless to say, that is EXTREMELY silly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
//VIRAL BEASTS\\ Go check it out. Or I'll get Absolete on your ass.
Then they shouldn't have any problem and everything will be peachy. :smile.gif:
Yes, that is all well and good, but the problem remains; The people who are trying to help are having the same repercussions as those who bash and troll for fun.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
//VIRAL BEASTS\\ Go check it out. Or I'll get Absolete on your ass.
Yes, that is all well and good, but the problem remains; The people who are trying to help are having the same repercussions as those who bash and troll for fun.
Things can be said in a manner to not drive the OP away. Telling someone to not make threads because they are new will drive them away, but polite recommendations and on topic criticism is fine.
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It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
I wish to dive into this a little bit farther with a statement that will have all the moderators laughing and brushing us off:
we did amazing with the old rules. I'm glad you implemented new moderators, but new rules? Those have driven away good people. Not us. I admit I've driven away people, but that's the past. I do helpful criticism. You all fail to point out the good people like me, Stingray, Avnas, do. Although we have our moments, I can guarantee you I've molded half of Fan Art into what it is today.
Not alone, but I have. People respect that, too. They wanted that. Now you take it away? I'm even more so convinced you won't be emerging the same as a Fan Art community.
And then to act as if you "want the community to all be friends"? You know was well as I you all can't moderator that well. There will be what we did, and it will never stop. But the people behind it, like Stingray? Sure, I've seen him put down a few people. But he befriended them right after and told them right where to go.
I'm not declaring myself grandmaster mcpeepants here, but have you checked my comment? Seen how many +1's it's gotten? I have a bakers dozen worth of people in two group PMs who all say they want the old forums back. For you not to even consider that is almost at the edge of communism, if you'll allow me to put it at that.
The amount of admin asskissers, however, levels to about two about now. I recall almost everyone wanting Jesonomi, AFYT, Neilsaur, any secmods or administration inside their story or roleplay. Helping out.
Now... not so much.
I'm not telling you all that this is a mutiny, but it damn near is.
Your rules may have reasoning, but we did fine before. IF people bash? I reported them. If I bashed? Neilsaur contacted me right away.
I think you all do underestimate your powers. You can easily come and moderate us without these rules, they'll be broken anyway.
The whole Fan Art, my favourite topic of my favourite forum, is in uproar. What I want to know is, Why? I don't see any difference to when it had no moderaters, EXCEPT for the uproar itself. Whats the cause?
Just a humble question.
EDIT: I'm going to go out now and see if Fan Art has changed at all, but for this riot of unknown cause. BRB.
DOUBLE EDIT: I SEE NO DIFFERENCE. NONE AT ALL. Fan Art hasn't changed to my eyes whatsoever. Then why the riot?
**** this ****. Why are you all out on a rage? Why does this tiny little rule matter? Why does it make you rage so much?
Haven't you all realized that this rule has been around for centuries? The beginning of time? Well, sorry if you haven't connected the dots yet, let me tell you:
Be polite.
Yep. That's what we're saying. "Be polite". Is this so hard of a rule to follow? Hell no! We're not saying you all are OT bashers who, like sharks on a feeding frenzy, hunt for every little annoying thread, post in it on how the OP is breaking the rules, or posting spam, or how an idiot that is, heck no! You guys are wonderful, helpful and extremely creative people who make people's lives a little more surreal by crafting stories for people to lose themselves in. It's an art form that I take to the highest, and you should be proud of yourself for creating beautiful stories made from a single thread of consciousness.
We care and want to protect that. Us moderators aren't here to ruin your day. We're here to help, and we care about this forum so, so, much.
I may be just an Off Topic moderator, but why would I be here, trying to make sense out of all of this, if I didn't care? You may not like this rule, but it's like eating vegetables that your mother gives you out of love. You don't like it, and you may argue about it, but you know that your mother does it because she loves you, and cares about you deeply. That's what we do. Like a mother, sometimes we have to lay down our discipline too.
Absolute, what are we taking away? The ability to say to a RP OP that their RP is doomed to fail? Why not let the passage of time take care of that? Let the better threads survive, and let the bad ones die. Let the natural order do it's course. It's not that hard.
Well, I'm sorry Mr. Absolute and your little cliqué, but we're not asking you to stop posting constructive posts--it's this constructive criticism that helped me grow as a writer. We're asking you to be polite when saying this. It's not that hard.
And for anybody who believes that Fan Art won't be the same, that it will be destroyed, well listen up. I'm still a moderator, so does that mean that Off Topic was destroyed when the Chat and Furry Threads were locked? Well, considering it's still here, and that people are still posting, then yes, it's hasn't been destroyed.
Forums change over time. I'm betting that Fan Art isn't the same as it was say...8 months ago. Times change. People grow up, they disappear, and new minds come into the fray, and give their ideas to the world.
We ask you to be polite, but also, we ask you to give these new minds a chance, for they might have something utterly mind blowing to say, and, well, it would be a pity to miss that chance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[12:41] Coffeeeeeee!
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[16:29] "And lo, the tacos were delicious"
It'd be nice to amass enough blocks for a serious construction using these templates. Instead of having fake temples and castles, I could have real fake temples and castles <3
We were all polite before. You had to simply warn us. I haven't been warned once officially for "bashing". Which shows this rule is silly. You can warn people for "bashing" the new people. I may be harsh, but I do not spew insults at new forumgoers and claim they are "idiots" like you say we do.
Have you seen any of the new minds? I bet not. WhiteVale? I hope you all admit that was a terrible made roleplay and the owner had no experience. Therefore, he didn't know how to roleplay. We dropped the ball commenting on that in such a way, sure. But that's one of the small instances.
We're all good people. You claim us to be all destroying the new players? If anything we're giving them a home. Other subforums are worse.
If they quit because we give them advice, that's their problem. I may have my own emotional and mental problems, but if you quit a forum because people criticize you that's pretty silly. I came into this forum a nobody who did stupid things and was bashed for it. But that ended once people got to know me. And then I actually started talking to people about doing so, and they stopped. Most of them.
You're all throwing this way overboard. I know I am too, and others as well that support me like Stingray, but we have good reason. How about you remove the rule and just become a bit more active, to stop all this? A few warns would be much better then silly rules that last forever. Warns don't.
I know we seem like a rag-tag group of roleplaying misfits, but really we're a good community. You're putting is in the void because of our small quirks that barely ever speak up.
I just ask of you to remove the rule and bring back Neilsaur's rules. You may edit them. Put in more "Be kind. Polite is key! Teamwork and friendship!" We're already kind. If you count our small messups as mistakes, I will personally go back and apologize to every single mistake you point out. Better yet, I bet I'd even befriend whoever was put into the wrong.
Why shape us into something better when we already perfect?
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COMPROMISE! Hold a poll and see if this rule should be enforced or not, let the general minecraft forum goers choose on wether to enforce this rule or discard it.
COMPROMISE! Hold a poll and see if this rule should be enforced or not, let the general minecraft forum goers choose on wether to enforce this rule or discard it.
That is a great idea.
I think the main problem with new people creating RP's in Fan Art is though some are good and end up running fine, there are many that are just made poorly, and the OP accepts people that do one word answers in their Character Application. I don't think anyone here wants to see Fan Art, currently a place for serious RP's, turn into a bunch of the nonsense flooding Forum Games. I know that I don't want too see a bunch of confusing, uncreative RP's fill up Fan Art. That is the reason I left the Forum Games RP's for Fan Art in the first place.
I'm not declaring myself grandmaster mcpeepants here, but have you checked my comment? Seen how many +1's it's gotten? I have a bakers dozen worth of people in two group PMs who all say they want the old forums back. For you not to even consider that is almost at the edge of communism, if you'll allow me to put it at that.
Playing this game? Check mine. Also, this forum is not a democracy. We do our best to keep it fair for ALL users, not the elitists.
I've criticized people before in other sections. My warning level is 0. Know how? I'm polite about it. Telling people to not make threads because they are new is not helpful, no matter what you think.
"Dropping the ball" - if it happens once, it'll likely happen again if there are no rules against it. This isn't some stupid rule to punish you. This is to make it so all users have freedom on the forum.
You're all throwing this way overboard. I know I am too, and others as well that support me like Stingray, but we have good reason. How about you remove the rule and just become a bit more active, to stop all this? A few warns would be much better then silly rules that last forever. Warns don't.
I spend more time on the forums than if this were a full time paying job. We can't find everything, which is why we rely on reports for infractions. And I don't find it "silly" to not have FA "elites" tell people to not make threads. It'd be the same as if I told new people to not make threads in MC discussion because they are new, even though some of the best threads I've seen were from people with less than 50 posts.
I just ask of you to remove the rule and bring back Neilsaur's rules. You may edit them. Put in more "Be kind. Polite is key! Teamwork and friendship!" We're already kind. If you count our small messups as mistakes, I will personally go back and apologize to every single mistake you point out. Better yet, I bet I'd even befriend whoever was put into the wrong.
Those aren't rules, they were guidelines. The problem is they were treated as rules.
You all fail to point out the good people like me, Stingray, Avnas, do. Although we have our moments, I can guarantee you I've molded half of Fan Art into what it is today.
We don't need to fix the good you do. We point out the bad because it needs to be altered. I'm sure you give out constructive criticism, and I'm sure people enjoy your help.
But if you really want to help, try actually providing help to the threads you sink by saying "Don't make threads." There are plenty of ways to do this.
1) Point out their mistakes.
2) Provide links to successful role-plays for them to compare to.
3) Assist them in fixing their problems.
4) If all of the above fail, direct them to a starting up RP or one still looking for members for them to join.
The way you currently do it.
1) You're new, don't make threads.
One of these two ways is horribly wrong. Yes, I've converted it to an overly simple form, but it is what you are saying when you hop in and only tell them to join others. It isn't constructive criticism, its destructive. If you actually want to help, and don't want to hit a kid over the head for no reason, do the steps I said. It will actually be useful to the OP.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
You know, when I first became part of the Fan Art community a month or two ago, I made a roleplay. If it weren't for people telling me to get more experience, and telling me the faults in my roleplay, I would never have known, and it's a good thing to tell people to get respected and well-known in this community before they start something that will inevitably fail. If we don't tell them how to improve, we will get a bunch of overall bad roleplys flooding the forums, and changing it into something worse than it is. I am one of many that made the mistake of making a roleplay too early, and now understand why other people shouldn't. If no one tells someone what they're doing is wrong, how will they know? You learn from mistakes, but how do you know they're a mistake if no one tells you? You definitely will learn sooner if someone tells you. You must understand, what seems like bashing to you, is just our way of helping others, and I understand if you want us to tell them in a gentler way, but you shouldn't stop us helping them all together just because they take our advice the wrong way. Without our help, the Fan Art section turns into floods of terrible roleplaying ideas, failed before birth roleplays, and roleplayers that never get better, for they think they're already perfect. So tell me, is this what you want our community to turn into?
LittleOrphanAnnie, a well-known and good roleplayer, once said, "I made the same mistake when I first joined this forum, and I really regret it." And this is how I feel as well.
As a person relatively new to the forums but not new to forum RPs, I come in with a view I consider educated but devoid of the "politics and popularity" of these forums. While I can completely understand the logic behind the criticism given by the older members, there are serious consequences immediately obvious and distantly possible.
As a background I have come from forums where the moderation heavy handed, the bashing incredible, elitism encouraged and in general measure FAR BEYOND what happens on these forums. By measure what counts as good on these forums, would not make it past character application. I tried to find my first post in a forum RP and the oldest I could track was in 2004 because the forum archives would not let me search that far ~ reasonable estimates would put me around 8 years of experience. My hobbies include time on the shooting range, archery range, martial arts, adrenaline sports, behavioral science and forensics ~ this puts me in a position where topics that occur regularly in RPs are topics I am well versed in and can play at an extremely detailed level.
~
Firstly there is a serious double standard I have noticed where the "older" members get first choice into every RP they apply for. Often their applications are unmodified, not critiqued and easily entered. In comparison the newer players must jump through many, many hoops in order to earn a chance at a placement. While yes there is a certain quality and formatting to older members, often an older member merely needs to ask "can I reserve a spot" and a space would be created for them. Even in RPs considered full, applications by certain members will be suddenly accepted.
Is this equal opportunity in anyway?
Imagine applying for a job and being refused because "they had no space", yet a friend of the family applies and without test gets the same position you applied for?
Obviously newer members feel cheated and with RPs having limited space, it is possible that all the positions will immediately be filled without newer members even receiving a chance.
Players enter a paradoxial loop where they cannot join RPs because they don't have enough experience, yet they cannot earn experience unless they join established RPs (that are often full already).
So this obviously leaves players who want to play but have no places they are welcome to, also there are of course scenarios and conditions players may wish for but not catered. The most obvious thing that happens in this scenario is players create their own RP. It is wrong to assume these players are few in numbers as the Minecraft forums grow with a certain ferocity.
There are of course many varying levels of play and experience in RPs too, having multiple levels and threads offers choice to role players so they can at least play at their level. This keeps "inexperienced" out of role plays that require a certain level of depth, while "experienced" players can select RPs closer to their requirements.
Another problem is quite simply, if you don't take in a regular amount of new players the forums *will* die. Members of course have lives outside the forums and will take leave as they age for study, relationships and work. Running RPs may loose critical steam if key players leave (especially the original storyteller), running RPs cannot continue without enough players and new players are required to fuel the movement of all RPs.
Back at the beginning I mentioned I *used* to go to certain heavy handed forums, these forums no longer run. By destroying the will of newer players to continue with the forums, they simply stagnated on what they had, natural attrition removed older players and of course RPs were no longer viable.
The story I tell is not unique and has happened multiple times in my experience.
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Maybe there should be a RP section in the forums, maybe then there can be some specific rules or "Guidelines" the roleplayers should follow. Sure that section will be filled withsome bad roleplays, but there will be some very great ones in there too that they could use as a basis for theirs. What I am trying to say is stop this bickering back and forth and either A) vote on the rule (might not be a good choice because most RPers in the FA section are what you call "Elitist") or :cool.gif: make an entirely new section for Roleplaying in the forums. I know that at first I was one of the people who wanted to abolish this new rule implemented. But the more and more that everyone post back and forth, the more I see that that is all it will be. Nonsense and constant bickering, each person trying to plead their case to make everyone else see that their argument is much more suitable and should be taken over the rest. I come to you as a Citizen of the forums, a newcomer, a "n00b", to say that we all should just stop fighting over it and reach an understanding.
These arguments can be ended if each side gives up a little. The admins and moderators could repost the guidlines Neilsaur made, and the "elites" could add in a policy on being nice to people who made an RP. This is of course a suggestion, but just remember. Conflicts can't, and aren't meant to be, waged forever.
I agree, the vote won't work. Most of the people caught up in this argument are what you call "elitists" and Mods. The vote would mostly be the people who have posted here voting, because the 'new' people justbarent that interested in the vote, and they don't really bother.
In my humble opinion, this is quite silly.
The Mods say we should give advice politely. The other part say they already do it, most of the time, that is. What are we bickering about? About how Fan Art has changed? How we chase away the new people? Well, the people that were accused of chasing them away, say they won't do it.
I say we do nothing. Let things go on as they were, and see how they go from there. If they 'bash' again, then you do what you always do when someone breaks a rule,
But that's how I see it.
I have no way at all with words, so feel free to dismiss this post.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I was thinking that work is like fertilizer in that I'm glad it exists; I just don't ever want to get stuck in it.”
This is exactly what I mean.
People misinterpret what I have to say. A post I directed to EVERYBODY was deleted, because somehow they thought it was only directed to mods and I should talk to them in IRC. Which it wasn't.
My Guidelines were misread, and people were made to believe that it was a bad thing to create an RPing thread when you were new. But in reality, I meant your RP will be more successful if you know the community.
I'm sick of people trying to defend me without me having my say in it. Let me speak for myself, please.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To all new RPers... Participate before you Create!
I'm done with trying. The moderators make good points, but they just don't realize. A lot of people are in the middle, but a lot are on my side.
I'm leaving anyway. I honestly love this forum and everything about it, but Fan Art is the only thing keeping me here. With the new advancements, which aren't completely silly but still rash, that pushed me over the line.
You all have yet to point out the good sides of us. Slander good people with bad moments. We've all bashed new players.
Apparentally you all are in it to win it, however. Don't want everyone to know the real side. How hospitable we are if you put effort into being kind to us and trying.
If you research for ATLEAST five minutes, you'll know roleplays aren't meant to have a sentence for a plot and applications with four lines on them.
If you made a Roleplay and Serious Roleplay subforum I would stay.
And that's what we need. A roleplay and serious roleplay subforum.
Where moderators listen to the people instead of forcing new rules in without warning us. Because you all know this is about roleplays and nothing else.
I'm done with trying. The moderators make good points, but they just don't realize. A lot of people are in the middle, but a lot are on my side.
We aren't trying to pick sides or play favorites.
I'm leaving anyway. I honestly love this forum and everything about it, but Fan Art is the only thing keeping me here. With the new advancements, which aren't completely silly but still rash, that pushed me over the line.
We are only trying to make it fair for everyone.
You all have yet to point out the good sides of us. Slander good people with bad moments. We've all bashed new players.
Because the good you do doesn't need changed.
Apparentally you all are in it to win it, however. Don't want everyone to know the real side. How hospitable we are if you put effort into being kind to us and trying.
Not to win, just show our point.
If you research for ATLEAST five minutes, you'll know roleplays aren't meant to have a sentence for a plot and applications with four lines on them.
This doesn't give you the right to tell someone to join others. If you want to help, go all the way and help.
If you made a Roleplay and Serious Roleplay subforum I would stay.
We can look into doing this.
And that's what we need. A roleplay and serious roleplay subforum.
I'll even be the one to bring it to others.
Where moderators listen to the people instead of forcing new rules in without warning us. Because you all know this is about roleplays and nothing else.
We do listen. The thing you have to understand is it is our job to make sure the forums are clean and nice for everyone, not just the people who are already good at stuff. Unfortunately, this is not a democracy. We hope to make it nice for as many people as possible, but making it a democracy would actually hinder us more than it would help.
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It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
Ok, I'm probably going to be shot to hell over this...
But what everyone has been trying to say is that the MAJORITY of the senior members of Fan Art try to help other people. Yes, there are a few people who get their kicks by saying "Holie sh1t thi5 rP is gay an ur a no0b.", but most of us tell them, "Fix this, fix that," or in some extreme cases, "This RP will not go anywhere", due to the fact that the OP's skills are extremely lacking, whether it be in grammar, cognitive skills, or if the OP has a horrible attitude for criticism.
This is all completely true and fair. But what is happening is that you are all nitpicking at the select few that say "God this RP is horrible go kill yourself", and completely ignoring those who offer constructive criticism. It's almost like, dare I say it, like you are looking specifically for the people who "bash" new people, and then bringing down the hand of God on everyone else for their actions.
Needless to say, that is EXTREMELY silly.
Then they shouldn't have any problem and everything will be peachy. :smile.gif:
Yes, that is all well and good, but the problem remains; The people who are trying to help are having the same repercussions as those who bash and troll for fun.
Things can be said in a manner to not drive the OP away. Telling someone to not make threads because they are new will drive them away, but polite recommendations and on topic criticism is fine.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
we did amazing with the old rules. I'm glad you implemented new moderators, but new rules? Those have driven away good people. Not us. I admit I've driven away people, but that's the past. I do helpful criticism. You all fail to point out the good people like me, Stingray, Avnas, do. Although we have our moments, I can guarantee you I've molded half of Fan Art into what it is today.
Not alone, but I have. People respect that, too. They wanted that. Now you take it away? I'm even more so convinced you won't be emerging the same as a Fan Art community.
And then to act as if you "want the community to all be friends"? You know was well as I you all can't moderator that well. There will be what we did, and it will never stop. But the people behind it, like Stingray? Sure, I've seen him put down a few people. But he befriended them right after and told them right where to go.
I'm not declaring myself grandmaster mcpeepants here, but have you checked my comment? Seen how many +1's it's gotten? I have a bakers dozen worth of people in two group PMs who all say they want the old forums back. For you not to even consider that is almost at the edge of communism, if you'll allow me to put it at that.
The amount of admin asskissers, however, levels to about two about now. I recall almost everyone wanting Jesonomi, AFYT, Neilsaur, any secmods or administration inside their story or roleplay. Helping out.
Now... not so much.
I'm not telling you all that this is a mutiny, but it damn near is.
Your rules may have reasoning, but we did fine before. IF people bash? I reported them. If I bashed? Neilsaur contacted me right away.
I think you all do underestimate your powers. You can easily come and moderate us without these rules, they'll be broken anyway.
I miss you, Fan Art.
Why won't you come back?
The whole Fan Art, my favourite topic of my favourite forum, is in uproar. What I want to know is, Why? I don't see any difference to when it had no moderaters, EXCEPT for the uproar itself. Whats the cause?
Just a humble question.
EDIT: I'm going to go out now and see if Fan Art has changed at all, but for this riot of unknown cause. BRB.
DOUBLE EDIT: I SEE NO DIFFERENCE. NONE AT ALL. Fan Art hasn't changed to my eyes whatsoever. Then why the riot?
Haven't you all realized that this rule has been around for centuries? The beginning of time? Well, sorry if you haven't connected the dots yet, let me tell you:
Be polite.
Yep. That's what we're saying. "Be polite". Is this so hard of a rule to follow? Hell no! We're not saying you all are OT bashers who, like sharks on a feeding frenzy, hunt for every little annoying thread, post in it on how the OP is breaking the rules, or posting spam, or how an idiot that is, heck no! You guys are wonderful, helpful and extremely creative people who make people's lives a little more surreal by crafting stories for people to lose themselves in. It's an art form that I take to the highest, and you should be proud of yourself for creating beautiful stories made from a single thread of consciousness.
We care and want to protect that. Us moderators aren't here to ruin your day. We're here to help, and we care about this forum so, so, much.
I may be just an Off Topic moderator, but why would I be here, trying to make sense out of all of this, if I didn't care? You may not like this rule, but it's like eating vegetables that your mother gives you out of love. You don't like it, and you may argue about it, but you know that your mother does it because she loves you, and cares about you deeply. That's what we do. Like a mother, sometimes we have to lay down our discipline too.
Absolute, what are we taking away? The ability to say to a RP OP that their RP is doomed to fail? Why not let the passage of time take care of that? Let the better threads survive, and let the bad ones die. Let the natural order do it's course. It's not that hard.
Well, I'm sorry Mr. Absolute and your little cliqué, but we're not asking you to stop posting constructive posts--it's this constructive criticism that helped me grow as a writer. We're asking you to be polite when saying this. It's not that hard.
And for anybody who believes that Fan Art won't be the same, that it will be destroyed, well listen up. I'm still a moderator, so does that mean that Off Topic was destroyed when the Chat and Furry Threads were locked? Well, considering it's still here, and that people are still posting, then yes, it's hasn't been destroyed.
Forums change over time. I'm betting that Fan Art isn't the same as it was say...8 months ago. Times change. People grow up, they disappear, and new minds come into the fray, and give their ideas to the world.
We ask you to be polite, but also, we ask you to give these new minds a chance, for they might have something utterly mind blowing to say, and, well, it would be a pity to miss that chance.
[12:41] Coffeeeeeee!
---
[16:29] "And lo, the tacos were delicious"
Have you seen any of the new minds? I bet not. WhiteVale? I hope you all admit that was a terrible made roleplay and the owner had no experience. Therefore, he didn't know how to roleplay. We dropped the ball commenting on that in such a way, sure. But that's one of the small instances.
We're all good people. You claim us to be all destroying the new players? If anything we're giving them a home. Other subforums are worse.
If they quit because we give them advice, that's their problem. I may have my own emotional and mental problems, but if you quit a forum because people criticize you that's pretty silly. I came into this forum a nobody who did stupid things and was bashed for it. But that ended once people got to know me. And then I actually started talking to people about doing so, and they stopped. Most of them.
You're all throwing this way overboard. I know I am too, and others as well that support me like Stingray, but we have good reason. How about you remove the rule and just become a bit more active, to stop all this? A few warns would be much better then silly rules that last forever. Warns don't.
I know we seem like a rag-tag group of roleplaying misfits, but really we're a good community. You're putting is in the void because of our small quirks that barely ever speak up.
I just ask of you to remove the rule and bring back Neilsaur's rules. You may edit them. Put in more "Be kind. Polite is key! Teamwork and friendship!" We're already kind. If you count our small messups as mistakes, I will personally go back and apologize to every single mistake you point out. Better yet, I bet I'd even befriend whoever was put into the wrong.
Why shape us into something better when we already perfect?
That is a great idea.
I think the main problem with new people creating RP's in Fan Art is though some are good and end up running fine, there are many that are just made poorly, and the OP accepts people that do one word answers in their Character Application. I don't think anyone here wants to see Fan Art, currently a place for serious RP's, turn into a bunch of the nonsense flooding Forum Games. I know that I don't want too see a bunch of confusing, uncreative RP's fill up Fan Art. That is the reason I left the Forum Games RP's for Fan Art in the first place.
Playing this game? Check mine. Also, this forum is not a democracy. We do our best to keep it fair for ALL users, not the elitists.
Also, you aren't helping. Here, look at this. This is no more than spam to bump either your e-peen or post count.
I've criticized people before in other sections. My warning level is 0. Know how? I'm polite about it. Telling people to not make threads because they are new is not helpful, no matter what you think.
"Dropping the ball" - if it happens once, it'll likely happen again if there are no rules against it. This isn't some stupid rule to punish you. This is to make it so all users have freedom on the forum.
I spend more time on the forums than if this were a full time paying job. We can't find everything, which is why we rely on reports for infractions. And I don't find it "silly" to not have FA "elites" tell people to not make threads. It'd be the same as if I told new people to not make threads in MC discussion because they are new, even though some of the best threads I've seen were from people with less than 50 posts.
Those aren't rules, they were guidelines. The problem is they were treated as rules.
We don't need to fix the good you do. We point out the bad because it needs to be altered. I'm sure you give out constructive criticism, and I'm sure people enjoy your help.
But if you really want to help, try actually providing help to the threads you sink by saying "Don't make threads." There are plenty of ways to do this.
1) Point out their mistakes.
2) Provide links to successful role-plays for them to compare to.
3) Assist them in fixing their problems.
4) If all of the above fail, direct them to a starting up RP or one still looking for members for them to join.
The way you currently do it.
1) You're new, don't make threads.
One of these two ways is horribly wrong. Yes, I've converted it to an overly simple form, but it is what you are saying when you hop in and only tell them to join others. It isn't constructive criticism, its destructive. If you actually want to help, and don't want to hit a kid over the head for no reason, do the steps I said. It will actually be useful to the OP.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
LittleOrphanAnnie, a well-known and good roleplayer, once said, "I made the same mistake when I first joined this forum, and I really regret it." And this is how I feel as well.
<- Please. ._.
As a background I have come from forums where the moderation heavy handed, the bashing incredible, elitism encouraged and in general measure FAR BEYOND what happens on these forums. By measure what counts as good on these forums, would not make it past character application. I tried to find my first post in a forum RP and the oldest I could track was in 2004 because the forum archives would not let me search that far ~ reasonable estimates would put me around 8 years of experience. My hobbies include time on the shooting range, archery range, martial arts, adrenaline sports, behavioral science and forensics ~ this puts me in a position where topics that occur regularly in RPs are topics I am well versed in and can play at an extremely detailed level.
~
Firstly there is a serious double standard I have noticed where the "older" members get first choice into every RP they apply for. Often their applications are unmodified, not critiqued and easily entered. In comparison the newer players must jump through many, many hoops in order to earn a chance at a placement. While yes there is a certain quality and formatting to older members, often an older member merely needs to ask "can I reserve a spot" and a space would be created for them. Even in RPs considered full, applications by certain members will be suddenly accepted.
Is this equal opportunity in anyway?
Imagine applying for a job and being refused because "they had no space", yet a friend of the family applies and without test gets the same position you applied for?
Obviously newer members feel cheated and with RPs having limited space, it is possible that all the positions will immediately be filled without newer members even receiving a chance.
Players enter a paradoxial loop where they cannot join RPs because they don't have enough experience, yet they cannot earn experience unless they join established RPs (that are often full already).
So this obviously leaves players who want to play but have no places they are welcome to, also there are of course scenarios and conditions players may wish for but not catered. The most obvious thing that happens in this scenario is players create their own RP. It is wrong to assume these players are few in numbers as the Minecraft forums grow with a certain ferocity.
There are of course many varying levels of play and experience in RPs too, having multiple levels and threads offers choice to role players so they can at least play at their level. This keeps "inexperienced" out of role plays that require a certain level of depth, while "experienced" players can select RPs closer to their requirements.
Another problem is quite simply, if you don't take in a regular amount of new players the forums *will* die. Members of course have lives outside the forums and will take leave as they age for study, relationships and work. Running RPs may loose critical steam if key players leave (especially the original storyteller), running RPs cannot continue without enough players and new players are required to fuel the movement of all RPs.
Back at the beginning I mentioned I *used* to go to certain heavy handed forums, these forums no longer run. By destroying the will of newer players to continue with the forums, they simply stagnated on what they had, natural attrition removed older players and of course RPs were no longer viable.
The story I tell is not unique and has happened multiple times in my experience.
Check this out for an example
Another link
one everyone might know of
These arguments can be ended if each side gives up a little. The admins and moderators could repost the guidlines Neilsaur made, and the "elites" could add in a policy on being nice to people who made an RP. This is of course a suggestion, but just remember. Conflicts can't, and aren't meant to be, waged forever.
In my humble opinion, this is quite silly.
The Mods say we should give advice politely. The other part say they already do it, most of the time, that is. What are we bickering about? About how Fan Art has changed? How we chase away the new people? Well, the people that were accused of chasing them away, say they won't do it.
I say we do nothing. Let things go on as they were, and see how they go from there. If they 'bash' again, then you do what you always do when someone breaks a rule,
But that's how I see it.
I have no way at all with words, so feel free to dismiss this post.
People misinterpret what I have to say. A post I directed to EVERYBODY was deleted, because somehow they thought it was only directed to mods and I should talk to them in IRC. Which it wasn't.
My Guidelines were misread, and people were made to believe that it was a bad thing to create an RPing thread when you were new. But in reality, I meant your RP will be more successful if you know the community.
I'm sick of people trying to defend me without me having my say in it. Let me speak for myself, please.
I'm leaving anyway. I honestly love this forum and everything about it, but Fan Art is the only thing keeping me here. With the new advancements, which aren't completely silly but still rash, that pushed me over the line.
You all have yet to point out the good sides of us. Slander good people with bad moments. We've all bashed new players.
Apparentally you all are in it to win it, however. Don't want everyone to know the real side. How hospitable we are if you put effort into being kind to us and trying.
If you research for ATLEAST five minutes, you'll know roleplays aren't meant to have a sentence for a plot and applications with four lines on them.
If you made a Roleplay and Serious Roleplay subforum I would stay.
And that's what we need. A roleplay and serious roleplay subforum.
Where moderators listen to the people instead of forcing new rules in without warning us. Because you all know this is about roleplays and nothing else.
We aren't trying to pick sides or play favorites.
We are only trying to make it fair for everyone.
Because the good you do doesn't need changed.
Not to win, just show our point.
This doesn't give you the right to tell someone to join others. If you want to help, go all the way and help.
We can look into doing this.
I'll even be the one to bring it to others.
We do listen. The thing you have to understand is it is our job to make sure the forums are clean and nice for everyone, not just the people who are already good at stuff. Unfortunately, this is not a democracy. We hope to make it nice for as many people as possible, but making it a democracy would actually hinder us more than it would help.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --